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There seems to be a lot of people who say that associates don't last long in large firms.

I guess I just want more elaboration on this topic. I understand there are long hours as well as large and sometimes boring workloads. So I'm not too curious about why people might leave of their own volition. What I'm more curious of is why do large firms tend to fire so many associates? Or is this exaggerated? I haven't seen statistics on this but it seems to be a real concern on this forum.

Disclaimer: 0L

Biglawl associates have a short shelf life, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're all getting fired. Lots/most leave on their own

pretty sure you dont get fired. that requires paperwork they dont want. you either get phased out or you leave on your own. they dont need to fire you to get you out the door after 1-2 years

SemiReverseSplinter wrote:There seems to be a lot of people who say that associates don't last long in large firms.

I guess I just want more elaboration on this topic. I understand there are long hours as well as large and sometimes boring workloads. So I'm not too curious about why people might leave of their own volition. What I'm more curious of is why do large firms tend to fire so many associates? Or is this exaggerated? I haven't seen statistics on this but it seems to be a real concern on this forum.

Disclaimer: 0L

As a practical matter, firms need large numbers of junior associates to do drudge work, smaller number of midlevels to do substantive work, and smaller still numbers of senior associates to supervise. So they hire large entry-level classes, then depend on voluntary or sometimes involuntary attrition to "right size" each class year. Firms don't generally fire people. Instead, they encourage people to leave gradually through negative performance reviews, and talks about how they don't have a future at the firm.

You might ask: why don't they just keep people around doing the same work? The danger of that is that without a chance of advancement, your good people will leave, while those who can't find anything better will stick around.

rayiner wrote:

SemiReverseSplinter wrote:There seems to be a lot of people who say that associates don't last long in large firms.

I guess I just want more elaboration on this topic. I understand there are long hours as well as large and sometimes boring workloads. So I'm not too curious about why people might leave of their own volition. What I'm more curious of is why do large firms tend to fire so many associates? Or is this exaggerated? I haven't seen statistics on this but it seems to be a real concern on this forum.

Disclaimer: 0L

As a practical matter, firms need large numbers of junior associates to do drudge work, smaller number of midlevels to do substantive work, and smaller still numbers of senior associates to supervise. So they hire large entry-level classes, then depend on voluntary or sometimes involuntary attrition to "right size" each class year. Firms don't generally fire people. Instead, they encourage people to leave gradually through negative performance reviews, and talks about how they don't have a future at the firm.

You might ask: why don't they just keep people around doing the same work? The danger of that is that without a chance of advancement, your good people will leave, while those who can't find anything better will stick around.

Firms will fire people. Not on the spot, but they'll give you 3-6 months to find something else or you get fired.

Can anyone speak to going into BigLaw with the intention to leave as quickly as possible for In-house jobs? This is my current game plan if its feasible.

flawschoolkid wrote:Can anyone speak to going into BigLaw with the intention to leave as quickly as possible for In-house jobs? This is my current game plan if its feasible.

You need to put in time to get a good in-house gig but if you're not concerned about career advancement after BigLaw, then it doesn't really matter and you can take the first thing that comes at you.

toothbrush wrote:pretty sure you dont get fired. that requires paperwork they dont want. you either get phased out or you leave on your own. they dont need to fire you to get you out the door after 1-2 years

"Phased out" means getting fired. They don't give you work and your hours tank. Or they load you with hours because they know you're leaving and want to get the most billables they can out of you. They tell you at your review that you should consider your professional and career growth. You get three months severance and your profile on the website.

From people I've talked to, it really depends on the firm. Some are more willing to get rid of juniors en masse and some will rarely get rid of juniors so long as they make a good go at it. Some offer more flexibility as a midlevel with either changing groups and taking a cut in your year and some don't bend at all.

I'm not sure any firm ITE is getting rid of juniors in masse.

Desert Fox wrote:I'm not sure any firm ITE is getting rid of juniors in masse.

En masse is absolutely the wrong word. But I've spoken with people where juniors are definitely on the chopping block after reviews and people where juniors are, for the most part, off the table, at least for the first year or two. They could have also been feeding me bullshit or talking to me about very narrow slivers that they see or hear about. The biggest surprise to me was the latter where if you're passable and put forth an effort to succeed to a minimal extent, it seems like most places will keep you on for a couple years which goes against the sort of image you otherwise receive about firms.

I think you are pretty safe for two years.

Desert Fox wrote:I think you are pretty safe for two years.

Yep, the first big purge occurs at the end of an associate class's third year from what I've seen/heard.

....

flawschoolkid wrote:Can anyone speak to going into BigLaw with the intention to leave as quickly as possible for In-house jobs? This is my current game plan if its feasible.

Are you lit or corporate?

I was told very early in law school don't even attempt BigLaw because 1) I have a major attitude problem 2) I don't play well with others. This highly amused because I never wanted BigLaw in the first place.

wreek wrote:I was told very early in law school don't even attempt BigLaw because 1) I have a major attitude problem 2) I don't play well with others. This highly amused because I never wanted BigLaw in the first place.

Thanks for posting.

wreek wrote:I was told very early in law school don't even attempt BigLaw because 1) I have a major attitude problem 2) I don't play well with others. This highly amused because I never wanted BigLaw in the first place.

Please describe your relation to your bootstraps.

wreek wrote:I was told very early in law school don't even attempt BigLaw because 1) I have a major attitude problem 2) I don't play well with others. This highly amused because I never wanted BigLaw in the first place.

X-TREME

Julius wrote:

wreek wrote:I was told very early in law school don't even attempt BigLaw because 1) I have a major attitude problem 2) I don't play well with others. This highly amused because I never wanted BigLaw in the first place.

Please describe your relation to your bootstraps.

I don't know about bootstraps but boots are good for shoving up people's asses. Ha!

Since you were asking about my job, I was a prosecutor for nearly 25 years.

TheSpanishMain wrote:

wreek wrote:I was told very early in law school don't even attempt BigLaw because 1) I have a major attitude problem 2) I don't play well with others. This highly amused because I never wanted BigLaw in the first place.

X-TREME

Nah. I was being told something I'd already known when I was a kid...

wreek wrote:

Julius wrote:

wreek wrote:I was told very early in law school don't even attempt BigLaw because 1) I have a major attitude problem 2) I don't play well with others. This highly amused because I never wanted BigLaw in the first place.

Please describe your relation to your bootstraps.

I don't know about bootstraps but boots are good for shoving up people's asses. Ha!

Since you were asking about my job, I was a prosecutor for nearly 25 years.

Ah, well the rest of your posting makes a lot more sense now.

I thought I smelled boomer.

Mal Reynolds wrote:I thought I smelled boomer.

Not a boomer. Feels like it though!

wreek wrote:

Mal Reynolds wrote:I thought I smelled boomer.

Not a boomer. Feels like it though!

at the very youngest you're 50 and at the oldest, you're idk let's say 70

that's close enough to boomer for me

wreek wrote:

Mal Reynolds wrote:I thought I smelled boomer.

Not a boomer. Feels like it though!

Just a child prodigy. Nothing to see here, folks. A 35 y.o. with 30 years of prosecutorial experience.

Desert Fox wrote:

rayiner wrote:

SemiReverseSplinter wrote:There seems to be a lot of people who say that associates don't last long in large firms.

I guess I just want more elaboration on this topic. I understand there are long hours as well as large and sometimes boring workloads. So I'm not too curious about why people might leave of their own volition. What I'm more curious of is why do large firms tend to fire so many associates? Or is this exaggerated? I haven't seen statistics on this but it seems to be a real concern on this forum.

Disclaimer: 0L

As a practical matter, firms need large numbers of junior associates to do drudge work, smaller number of midlevels to do substantive work, and smaller still numbers of senior associates to supervise. So they hire large entry-level classes, then depend on voluntary or sometimes involuntary attrition to "right size" each class year. Firms don't generally fire people. Instead, they encourage people to leave gradually through negative performance reviews, and talks about how they don't have a future at the firm.

You might ask: why don't they just keep people around doing the same work? The danger of that is that without a chance of advancement, your good people will leave, while those who can't find anything better will stick around.

Firms will fire people. Not on the spot, but they'll give you 3-6 months to find something else or you get fired.

All so the firm doesn't make headlines for mass firings and we don't have to list being fired on our resumes. What a swell deal.