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I've heard that it's hard to get employed as a 1L. Anybody have success in this area? Do you care to share your advice on how to do it?

Anonymous User wrote:I've heard that it's hard to get employed as a 1L. Anybody have success in this area? Do you care to share your advice on how to do it?

Hard to get a paying firm job? Extraordinarily difficult. Hard to get a non-paying government/PI summer job? Not so much.

OP can you narrow your question a little? Namely, 1L employment from what school and what market?

ETA: The answer is really get good grades and apply December 1.

Anonymous User wrote:I've heard that it's hard to get employed as a 1L. Anybody have success in this area? Do you care to share your advice on how to do it?

It's pretty easy as long as you don't expect to be paid well. Prepare your applications well before finals, maybe use the Thanksgiving Break to finish them up. Mass mail judges on December 1. Mass mail any organizations you are interested in working with then if you have time or after finals if you don't.

Don't expect to get a summer associate position at biglaw, but apply broadly anyway on the off-chance you have the grades and luck to snag one.

Schedule interviews at the earliest possible date. Try to do as many as possible over winter break.

Everyone I know who did all of the above had a position lined up by January or February - many as early as December.
If all else fails, ask to work with a professor or in your school's library. It's very much in your school's interests to make sure no one is unemployed in 1L summer when it's so easy for them to make up positions, especially since a 1L can't expect to be paid much more than table scraps.

OP here.

School: let's say between T15-T20
Public interest and paid at a firm interest me the most, but I am also open to other possibilities. Also, how hard is it to get something outside of the regional market?

Is this forum for 0Ls? We need a lot more information than your incredibly generic and broad details.

But here's your answer:

emkay625 wrote:ETA: The answer is really get good grades and apply December 1.

Anonymous User wrote:OP here.

School: let's say between T15-T20

You should have no problem finding work assuming you follow the above suggestions.

Public interest and paid at a firm interest me the most, but I am also open to other possibilities.

You will almost certainly not find paid biglaw work, and you will probably not find paid work at mid-sized firms. Try anyway.

Also, how hard is it to get something outside of the regional market?

Very easy, but make sure you can afford to live wherever you apply. If you can't sublet out your apartment for the summer and don't have rich parents, it's probably a terrible idea to pay rent in two places at once unless you're making biglaw bucks. On a non-profit or judicial intern salary, that's a non-starter.

Rising 1L here. I hear that Career Services wont help with applications before December 1st. Considering the wisdom of applying ON December 1st, do any upperclasspeople wish to advise on the components of a 1L summer job application?

whereskyle wrote:Rising 1L here. I hear that Career Services wont help with applications before December 1st. Considering the wisdom of applying ON December 1st, do any upperclasspeople wish to advise on the components of a 1L summer job application?

Cover letter
Resume
Writing sample

In terms of a timeline, I know people who ended up getting jobs after finals. As in, after spring finals. As long as you're willing to work for free (and hopefully your school does some form of compensation for the summer) then it's pretty easy to find something. Firm work, on the other hand, is more difficult, though I know plenty of people (some non-diverse people too) working at firms. It's a lot more common than I was expecting, but maybe my sample size (which is small, keep in mind) is skewed for whatever reason. I still wouldn't plan on it

Anonymous User wrote:OP here.

School: let's say between T15-T20
Public interest and paid at a firm interest me the most, but I am also open to other possibilities. Also, how hard is it to get something outside of the regional market?

You are anon, so not sure why you're hiding which school? But whatevs.

I would guess this varies widely based upon which market you're in. IE, Texas is actually the land of 1L SAs. If you go to Texas and manage to place in the top 25% of your class, a 1L SA is very realistic. (I know lots of people who are even borderline top 25% and still got one). It would probably be much, much more difficult for someone going to Texas to snag a 1L SA in NY or DC (but I know a few people who managed to do so).

No idea how UCLA, USC, or Vandy, etc. fare.

As far as public interest goes, so long as you are willing to work for free, it will likely be very easy to find something. Most schools in that range offer paid PI fellowships. Make sure you apply.

But again, the answer is study hard, get good grades, apply December 1. Get your writing sample and resume and the like done very early so you don't have to stop what you're doing in the middle of studying for finals and prep it then. Get that stuff all figured out in October, so December 1 all you're doing is sending things.

The legal employment forum is for law students and graduates, only.

TLS Moderators wrote:If you're a 0L wanting advice from current law students, we've set up a new forum just for you, which you can find here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=4

It's called "Ask a Law Student", and it's a place for 0Ls to ask current law students questions without disturbing the "Students and Graduates" forums. Post all your questions there, including about things like classes, grades, transferring, employment, etc. Please do not continue posting your questions here in the Students and Graduates forums, as doing so might get you banned and/or your thread locked.

Thank you for your understanding.

This thread has been moved to the appropriate forum. (Also OP, there is no reason for you to be using the Anon feature.)

I'm currently in my 1L summer (rising 2L) at a BgFed agency and pretty much got it because I applied Dec. 1st. They didn't even have my grades when I was offered the position three weeks after applying.

In terms of a timeline, I know people who ended up getting jobs after finals. As in, after spring finals. As long as you're willing to work for free (and hopefully your school does some form of compensation for the summer) then it's pretty easy to find something. Firm work, on the other hand, is more difficult, though I know plenty of people (some non-diverse people too) working at firms. It's a lot more common than I was expecting, but maybe my sample size (which is small, keep in mind) is skewed for whatever reason. I still wouldn't plan on it

I want to second this, I know there were small firms calling our career services office looking for students in April/May, and I had several companies contact me about interviewing for paying work as a 1L summer intern during reading/finals week. Unless you are really interested in a specific public interest or government position, I think it makes more sense to apply broadly to jobs that will pay something for the summer and be willing to wait and see what comes up, rather than locking down a volunteer position in December of January.

Obviously this also depends on how well (if at all) your school pays out stipends people working in public interest, and the actual market of the area surrounding your school. I just know that in my limited experience in a secondary (tertiary?) market there were definitely law clerk positions with smaller firms that went unfilled, which really surprised me.

jchiles wrote:

In terms of a timeline, I know people who ended up getting jobs after finals. As in, after spring finals. As long as you're willing to work for free (and hopefully your school does some form of compensation for the summer) then it's pretty easy to find something. Firm work, on the other hand, is more difficult, though I know plenty of people (some non-diverse people too) working at firms. It's a lot more common than I was expecting, but maybe my sample size (which is small, keep in mind) is skewed for whatever reason. I still wouldn't plan on it

I want to second this, I know there were small firms calling our career services office looking for students in April/May, and I had several companies contact me about interviewing for paying work as a 1L summer intern during reading/finals week. Unless you are really interested in a specific public interest or government position, I think it makes more sense to apply broadly to jobs that will pay something for the summer and be willing to wait and see what comes up, rather than locking down a volunteer position in December of January.

As a counterpoint to this, I chose to apply early and accept a position over winter break because I didn't want to be worrying about finding summer employment during spring semester. Many of the students who waited to find a "better" position became overtly stressed and talked frequently about how much they felt the time they spent looking for a summer job was detracting from their study time. The ones who still hadn't locked something down by April/May tended to be in full-out panic mode, which cannot be a healthy addition to the already inflated stress of finals.

The odds of finding well-paid employment outside of the ultra-competitive 1L SA gigs are very low, and I don't know why someone would put themselves through all that additional stress for the difference of a few dollars per hour that's not going to make much of a dent in LS loans anyway. It's not as though 1L employment matters very much in the long run, outside of SA positions.

Like jchiles said though, a lot of this depends on how readily available living stipends/scholarships are from your school. Most T14s to my knowledge will provide roughly the same funding for volunteer positions, and I know the same applies for at least one of the "T15-T20s," as OP says they attend.

ymmv wrote:

jchiles wrote:

In terms of a timeline, I know people who ended up getting jobs after finals. As in, after spring finals. As long as you're willing to work for free (and hopefully your school does some form of compensation for the summer) then it's pretty easy to find something. Firm work, on the other hand, is more difficult, though I know plenty of people (some non-diverse people too) working at firms. It's a lot more common than I was expecting, but maybe my sample size (which is small, keep in mind) is skewed for whatever reason. I still wouldn't plan on it

I want to second this, I know there were small firms calling our career services office looking for students in April/May, and I had several companies contact me about interviewing for paying work as a 1L summer intern during reading/finals week. Unless you are really interested in a specific public interest or government position, I think it makes more sense to apply broadly to jobs that will pay something for the summer and be willing to wait and see what comes up, rather than locking down a volunteer position in December of January.

As a counterpoint to this, I chose to apply early and accept a position over winter break because I didn't want to be worrying about finding summer employment during spring semester. Many of the students who waited to find a "better" position became overtly stressed and talked frequently about how much they felt the time they spent looking for a summer job was detracting from their study time. The ones who still hadn't locked something down by April/May tended to be in full-out panic mode, which cannot be a healthy addition to the already inflated stress of finals.

The odds of finding well-paid employment outside of the ultra-competitive 1L SA gigs are very low, and I don't know why someone would put themselves through all that additional stress for the difference of a few dollars per hour that's not going to make much of a dent in LS loans anyway. It's not as though 1L employment matters very much in the long run, outside of SA positions.

Like jchiles said though, a lot of this depends on how readily available living stipends/scholarships are from your school. Most T14s to my knowledge will provide roughly the same funding for volunteer positions, and I know the same applies for at least one of the "T15-T20s," as OP says they attend.

Yeah, I was someone who locked down a position mid to late February, and one of the first job offers I got. I wanted to just offer that perspective because I was panicking in February because I didn’t have anything, and I had really no idea that as long as you want some legal job, you’re almost certain to get it. I had no idea how many people would be locking things up in March or later. I definitely agree that it’s nice to have something taken care of early, because it does save on time and energy applying/writing cover letters/interviewing, and you know your summer plans so you can start looking for a place to stay or sublet if you’re going to a different city. But I wish I had known that not having something in early February was not cause for panic.

As a counterpoint to this, I chose to apply early and accept a position over winter break because I didn't want to be worrying about finding summer employment during spring semester. Many of the students who waited to find a "better" position became overtly stressed and talked frequently about how much they felt the time they spent looking for a summer job was detracting from their study time. The ones who still hadn't locked something down by April/May tended to be in full-out panic mode, which cannot be a healthy addition to the already inflated stress of finals.

That is a pretty important consideration, I waited until April to commit to a job and I probably wouldn't have if I didn't have assurances from a friend working for a legal nonprofit that I could volunteer there if I wanted to. Getting stuck without any legal work for the summer is a bad spot to be in, but at least where I'm at I get the impression local judges and other government offices would make an effort to find at least part-time work for students at our school if they needed something at the last minute.

Funding for public interest jobs was extremely competitive, which meant that working this summer saved me from having to borrow 4-6k. It's not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, but I look at it as several months of loan payments I'm avoiding in the future.

I got a v50 1L SA, and had callbacks / offers at other places, and can say confidently I didn't do anything until after finals FWIW. You'll have enough on your mind in December. Also, are you a 0L?

how does one apply on December 1 when grades haven't come out? my school's exam period ends on December 17, so i imagine grades won't be out till late December.

iamgeorgebush wrote:how does one apply on December 1 when grades haven't come out? my school's exam period ends on December 17, so i imagine grades won't be out till late December.

Most employers I contacted didn't care. One asked for my undergrad transcript. Two provisionally offered me the job on the condition that my grades turned out to be not shit.

ymmv wrote:

iamgeorgebush wrote:how does one apply on December 1 when grades haven't come out? my school's exam period ends on December 17, so i imagine grades won't be out till late December.

Most employers I contacted didn't care. One asked for my undergrad transcript. Two provisionally offered me the job on the condition that my grades turned out to be not shit.

these are not SA positions, i presume?

is there any sort of hierarchy to the difficulty of obtaining different 1L jobs? for instance, would it be harder to get an in-house legal job at certain companies (F100, PE, etc.) over others? i'm just thinking that if i don't get a 1L SA job, i would like to target big clients of the firms i would like to eventually target for 2L SA jobs. sorry if these seem like silly questions, but i really don't know anything about the 1L job hunting process, and i haven't had much luck finding info on the internets. lots of info on 2L jobs, not so much on 1L jobs.

Yeah, very roughly it's SA >> Paid Gig >>>>> PI/Govt/judges > RA Position. Everyone will find something for 1L summer and it doesn't really matter what you do. Worst case scenario your professors will find some research projects for you.

This is only slightly related, but I figured I'd ask here. What do 1L's typically do over Winter break? (I'm kind of hoping the answer here is "just chill").

furrrman wrote:This is only slightly related, but I figured I'd ask here. What do 1L's typically do over Winter break? (I'm kind of hoping the answer here is "just chill").

chill, apply for summer jobs (though that's not mandatory)

edit: some of the jobs you may want to apply for over break (really, on dec1) is elite judge positions (ie SDNY) or DOJ programs or SA's

iamgeorgebush wrote:how does one apply on December 1 when grades haven't come out? my school's exam period ends on December 17, so i imagine grades won't be out till late December.

CounselorNebby wrote:I'm currently in my 1L summer (rising 2L) at a BgFed agency and pretty much got it because I applied Dec. 1st. They didn't even have my grades when I was offered the position three weeks after applying.