introverted, socially-averse lawyers Forum

[Kafkaesquire]

How do they actively get new clients?

The oldest partner at the firm I worked at last summer had a locally famous father and had run for office, himself. His politicking was a part-time job, in and of itself. It brought in a ton of clients that he passed down to some of the other partners.

But if a lawyer is the type to just sit in his office and work all day, who perhaps isn't socially savvy, and who doesn't have the luxury of getting handed work from another lawyer, how does he or she build their clientele?

[silenttimer]

This is precisely why not many people make partners.

[El Principe]

I mean this question kinda answers itself.

Unless you plan on living on walk-ins, you're gonna have to, you know, interact with other humans.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Work for the government. Built in client.

(Edit: to be fair to my colleagues, they are mostly very outgoing and socially capable.)

[Kafkaesquire]

Okay, so perhaps in-house and government jobs are more like just go in and put in your hours, and law firm jobs are more like be socially savvy and work your way up?

If that's the case, it seems there are two pretty distinct divisions of the practice.

[09042014]

From what I can tell, a lot of business is brought it remotely via a bidding process. So your reputation matters, not necessarily your sales skills. You may have to go make a pitch, but it's not smoozing, it's a presentation.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Well, there's a divide between jobs where you need to seek out clients and jobs where you don't. I don't think that breaks down neatly into any kind of personality types. Public defenders don't need to seek out clients but they have to deal with defendants every day (as well as prosecutors, judges, probation, etc.). So social savvy (whatever exactly that is) would be required. (I also don't think introverted = unable to deal with people, but I'm also an introvert.) I'm also not sure how bringing in business works at, say, a biglaw firm with multimillion dollar corporate clients. The "bringing in business" thing always seems a much bigger deal for mid/small-law to me. (Certainly to start - biglaw associates aren't expected to bring in business for a while. Don't know enough about making partner to comment, though.)

[Pragmatic Gun]

Just to clarify, an introvert isn't necessarily shy. They prefer to be by themselves or with people they trust. Physiologically, they can't handle the same amount of stimulation that an extrovert can. Introverts tend to be more thoughtful than extroverts, so a social situation (which requires a massive amount of data to analyze, believe it or not) is really taxing on introverts. Since extroverts seek stimulation because of they way their brain is wired, they love social situations.

However, that doesn't mean introverts are at a disadvantage in social situations. Introverts can read people better, it's just that they tend to suck at responding on cue. They may know the sheet music, but they don't pick up on the rhythm of the song and therefore suck at dancing. Furthermore, introverts are much better at forming deep relationships (since they prefer having close friends than a hundred acquaintances for the above reasons) because they tend to be a LOT more more patient and understanding than extroverts. If extroverts don't receive gratification right away, their instinct is to find it elsewhere.

Don't see introversion as a disadvantage, but rather as being equipped for a different sort of task that can be valuable for establishing a client-base. Introverts are equipped for deeper relationships with clients and being able to listen to their concerns and make them feel important. Introverts are listeners by nature, so use it to your fullest advantage.

Note that introversion/extroversion is on a spectrum, so one can be slightly introverted, very introverted, or even ambiverted.

PS introversion/extroversion is NOT bullshit. There are numerous studies showing that there are neurological differences between the two personality types.

[Kronk]

Okay, so perhaps in-house and government jobs are more like just go in and put in your hours, and law firm jobs are more like be socially savvy and work your way up?

If that's the case, it seems there are two pretty distinct divisions of the practice.

I think there are a lot more than two pretty distinct divisions of the practice.

Some people hate public speaking or are shit at it, which rules out almost all litigation. Other people would go crazy sitting at a desk all day forming contracts, calling clients, trying to work out deals. But there are a thousand other things a lawyer does and you just have to find one that is manageable for you.

[Pragmatic Gun]

Okay, so perhaps in-house and government jobs are more like just go in and put in your hours, and law firm jobs are more like be socially savvy and work your way up?

If that's the case, it seems there are two pretty distinct divisions of the practice.

I think there are a lot more than two pretty distinct divisions of the practice.

Some people hate public speaking or are shit at it, which rules out almost all litigation. Other people would go crazy sitting at a desk all day forming contracts, calling clients, trying to work out deals. But there are a thousand other things a lawyer does and you just have to find one that is manageable for you.

I think I should make clear that introverts aren't necessarily ill-equipped for public speaking. With practice they can be great at it.

[Kronk]

I didn't say introverts.

[Kafkaesquire]

If at larger firms there is less schmoozing and socializing, especially with laypeople, I suppose that the lawyers in question should think about avoiding small, less professional law firms?

By "socially-averse lawyers," I mean lawyers who can speak with their peers and other professionals, but who, outside of talking about work, they lack the social savvy to be pleasing in other social situations around other types of people. By "socially savvy," I mean employing that artificially sincere, smooth (and, for introverts, draining) conversation for the sake of avoiding social awkwardness.

[Pragmatic Gun]

I didn't say introverts.

I understand. I just don't want someone else to infer that.

If at larger firms there is less schmoozing and socializing, especially with laypeople, I suppose that the lawyers in question should think about avoiding small, less professional law firms?

By "socially-averse lawyers," I mean lawyers who can speak with their peers and other professionals, but who, outside of talking about work, they lack the social savvy to be pleasing in other social situations around other types of people. By "socially savvy," I mean employing that artificially sincere, smooth (and, for introverts, draining) conversation for the sake of avoiding social awkwardness.

Honestly, this may not be what you want to hear, but "socially-averse" lawyers should try at least to practice "acting". I don't necessarily mean try to imitate a hail-fellow kind of guy, but at least have average schmoozing skills. These are handy for life.

[McAvoy]

If at larger firms there is less schmoozing and socializing, especially with laypeople, I suppose that the lawyers in question should think about avoiding small, less professional law firms?

By "socially-averse lawyers," I mean lawyers who can speak with their peers and other professionals, but who, outside of talking about work, they lack the social savvy to be pleasing in other social situations around other types of people. By "socially savvy," I mean employing that artificially sincere, smooth (and, for introverts, draining) conversation for the sake of avoiding social awkwardness.

Some of these people do survive in midlaw. If a practice group has several rainmakers, worker bee partners who are total weirdos but are really good at what they do can stick around. You can bill them at much higher rates than associates and they aren't a flight risks.

[A. Nony Mouse]

If at larger firms there is less schmoozing and socializing, especially with laypeople, I suppose that the lawyers in question should think about avoiding small, less professional law firms?

By "socially-averse lawyers," I mean lawyers who can speak with their peers and other professionals, but who, outside of talking about work, they lack the social savvy to be pleasing in other social situations around other types of people. By "socially savvy," I mean employing that artificially sincere, smooth (and, for introverts, draining) conversation for the sake of avoiding social awkwardness.

I still think you're straw manning introverts here. Introversion doesn't have anything to do with social awkwardness or inability to be pleasing on social situations. I find large groups rather tiring and so after dealing with them I need time to myself to recharge. That doesn't mean that I handle large groups badly when I'm dealing with them.

There are people who aren't great at social interaction at all, but that doesn't have to break down introversion/extraversion. And there are also doubtless jobs for them in law.

[Kafkaesquire]

If at larger firms there is less schmoozing and socializing, especially with laypeople, I suppose that the lawyers in question should think about avoiding small, less professional law firms?

By "socially-averse lawyers," I mean lawyers who can speak with their peers and other professionals, but who, outside of talking about work, they lack the social savvy to be pleasing in other social situations around other types of people. By "socially savvy," I mean employing that artificially sincere, smooth (and, for introverts, draining) conversation for the sake of avoiding social awkwardness.

I still think you're straw manning introverts here. Introversion doesn't have anything to do with social awkwardness or inability to be pleasing on social situations. I find large groups rather tiring and so after dealing with them I need time to myself to recharge. That doesn't mean that I handle large groups badly when I'm dealing with them.

There are people who aren't great at social interaction at all, but that doesn't have to break down introversion/extraversion. And there are also doubtless jobs for them in law.

Nowhere have I equated introversion with social ineptitude. In fact, listing the lawyers in question as "introverted, socially averse" implies that "introverted" and "socially averse" are two different things.

[worldtraveler]

At least half of lawyers are shy or socially inept and the other half are assholes. You have nothing to worry about.