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DF and IAFG threw out the idea that there are fifteen things about BigLaw that are awful, and that everyone will hate at least one of them.

Since I've still got a few weeks left as a 0L, and no experience with BigLaw, I'm starting this thread because

IAFG wrote:

thesealocust wrote:

Can we please do this?

Start the thread and we can try to pull together the key ragequit triggers

Bring it.

mirroroferised7 wrote:DF and IAFG threw out the idea that there are fifteen things about BigLaw that are awful, and that everyone will hate at least one of them.

Since I've still got a few weeks left as a 0L, and no experience with BigLaw, I'm starting this thread because

IAFG wrote:

thesealocust wrote:

Can we please do this?

Start the thread and we can try to pull together the key ragequit triggers

Bring it.

Someone else can make a list. This is mine:

Lack of control over any minute of your time has to be the biggest one. The only time I considered quitting was when I had to come back to work after a friend's funeral ( who died while out running on a sunny morning and a car skidded on a patch of ice that happened to not be melted under some trees) to get out documents that evening. The partner knew it was an asshole move, but, you know, I'm getting paid a lot and there wasn't anyone else who knew the deal and the people.

Getting paid a lot means that people feel you should just work all the time. See above.

Doing great work quickly and efficiently just gets you more work. There is no outside limit.

Working well with assholes means you get to be the person keeping all the difficult personalities in line. I find that part much more exhausting than the actual work.

mirroroferised7 wrote: Since I've still got a few weeks left as a 0L, and no experience with BigLaw, I'm starting this thread because

How have you amassed over 600 posts before ever entering law school?

tag

Tyrannical midlevels. The person who brags about not using the restroom so they don't have to take a break from working. The person who asks you to do things that are literally impossible (like rely on documents that only they have, in their email) and then get upset when you circle back to ask questions of them. The person who ignores everything you send them for weeks, starts paying attention again one night at 10 pm and sends you 14 emails, rapidfire, with questions and tasks in each. Biglaw is not "full" of these people. But if you draw the short straw and work under one, heaven help you.

Sorry for shitting in thread.

This looks familiar.

Let's not shit up a thread that could potentially be illuminating to 0Ls and law students with inane posts about post count.

Being expendable: Biglaw attrition rates at the largest firm can hover around 20%. Know what that means about you? No leverage from day one until the day your two weeks notice lands. There is 0 incentive for anybody to make the job compatible with life. There is a line of people waiting to replace you. Until something actually breaks or goes wrong, how tired you are is directly proportionate to how much money the partners are earning.

The internal prison: When you're overwhelmed in biglaw, work/life balance quickly becomes "do a good job / life" balance. If the deadline looms and there's nobody else to do the work, the only options are do a mediocre job while getting sleep/life -- or making it sparkle while bleeding for it. There's something uniquely toxic about crushing yourself, but biglaw attracts the kind of people who do it. It makes the work product better, generates hours and is just baked into the system.

Billing and time keeping: Long day at the office? DOCUMENT EVERY 6 MINUTE INTERVAL OF IT UNTIL YOU GO HOME. Too tired? Good luck remembering it all tomorrow! Running timers? ETERNAL GUILT IF YOU PEE OR TLS WITHOUT PAUSING THEM. Had a day with a lot of down time? ENJOY THE PANG OF FEAR/GUILT AS YOU ENTER YOUR "SLOW" day.

Gnawing sense of inadequacy: I thought this was unique to being a 1L or a law student, but it turns out it just runs in the profession. The difference between "gnawing sense of inadequacy" and "imposter syndrome" is the constant proof that you are, in fact, an imposter. Red markups, dirty looks, obvious failures. Biglaw tasks/deadlines are frequently impossible (like, flat out incompatible with the law of physics) and the humble hammer will fall repeatedly on your forehead. As far as I can tell the only time it stops is when you decide to accept "victory" on days that you shit the bed less frequently, or less disastrously, than your peers.

Something that doesn't bother me but seems to really get to other people is when it's your job to screw over people (investors, claimants, whatever) to keep rich people rich.

Biglaw tasks/deadlines are frequently impossible (like, flat out incompatible with the law of physics)

So what happens in these situations?

thesealocust wrote: Gnawing sense of inadequacy: I thought this was unique to being a 1L or a law student, but it turns out it just runs in the profession. The difference between "gnawing sense of inadequacy" and "imposter syndrome" is the constant proof that you are, in fact, an imposter. Red markups, dirty looks, obvious failures. Biglaw tasks/deadlines are frequently impossible (like, flat out incompatible with the law of physics) and the humble hammer will fall repeatedly on your forehead. As far as I can tell the only time it stops is when you decide to accept "victory" on days that you shit the bed less frequently, or less disastrously, than your peers.

okay. this is starting to hit home.

1) You're strictly liable for miscommunications with more senior people, but often waved away when you try and ask questions to make sure everyone is on the same page.

2) The partners and seniors expect you to anticipate and take care of the little things, but don't give you enough big picture information to be able to effectively do that.

3) Instead of pushing down work as the assignments become ready, mid-levels and seniors at every stage procrastinate until approaching deadlines force work to be shoved downward, turning comfortable deadlines into fire drills.

4) Staying up late to do work in know in your heart nobody will ever read or use.

rayiner wrote:
2) The partners and seniors expect you to anticipate and take care of the little things, but don't give you enough big picture information to be able to effectively do that.

And when you say you don't know something they look at you like you're an idiot. The docket is 3k entries long, I don't know how much background reading aside from what you directed me to you thought I was going to do...

IAFG wrote:

rayiner wrote:
2) The partners and seniors expect you to anticipate and take care of the little things, but don't give you enough big picture information to be able to effectively do that.

And when you say you don't know something they look at you like you're an idiot. The docket is 3k entries long, I don't know how much background reading aside from what you directed me to you thought I was going to do...

So how do you guys go about doing your work in such a situation?

Theopliske8711 wrote:

Biglaw tasks/deadlines are frequently impossible (like, flat out incompatible with the law of physics)

So what happens in these situations?

(1) The "it didn't matter anyway" -- the task was impossible but immaterial, so the inability to resolve it (or resolve it in a timely fashion) has no consequences on anybody except you and your ego.

(2) The "intervention" -- a senior swoops in to save the day, or some other external force resolves the issue (delayed court deadline, deal gets paused or canceled, extra help added to the team, etc.)

(3) The "bad day" -- You fail, and it's somewhere between "bad but survivable" and "catastrophic." The best bad day means something went wrong, and you know it's either your fault or somebody tried to make it your fault, but the wheels stay on the bus. The worst bad day means embarrassing things happened to you, your team and your client.

rayiner wrote:1) You're strictly liable for miscommunications with more senior people, but often waved away when you try and ask questions to make sure everyone is on the same page.

2) The partners and seniors expect you to anticipate and take care of the little things, but don't give you enough big picture information to be able to effectively do that.

3) Instead of pushing down work as the assignments become ready, mid-levels and seniors at every stage procrastinate until approaching deadlines force work to be shoved downward, turning comfortable deadlines into fire drills.

4) Staying up late to do work in know in your heart nobody will ever read or use.

I know I'm only a paralegal and under about 1/10 of the stress/pressure as the lawyers, but oh lawd does this sound familiar

Theopliske8711 wrote:

IAFG wrote:

rayiner wrote:
2) The partners and seniors expect you to anticipate and take care of the little things, but don't give you enough big picture information to be able to effectively do that.

And when you say you don't know something they look at you like you're an idiot. The docket is 3k entries long, I don't know how much background reading aside from what you directed me to you thought I was going to do...

So how do you guys go about doing your work in such a situation?

You do the best you can on the information you have and pray every day no one comes to your office to talk about your work product.

IAFG wrote:

Theopliske8711 wrote:

IAFG wrote:

rayiner wrote:
2) The partners and seniors expect you to anticipate and take care of the little things, but don't give you enough big picture information to be able to effectively do that.

And when you say you don't know something they look at you like you're an idiot. The docket is 3k entries long, I don't know how much background reading aside from what you directed me to you thought I was going to do...

So how do you guys go about doing your work in such a situation?

You do the best you can on the information you have and pray every day no one comes to your office to talk about your work product.

Under these impossible circumstances, I'm amazed that there is an attrition rate at all. Seems to me half the associates would be fired within a year or two at best, and for shit that is unlikely to even be their fault.

One of my favorite moves was when a senior associate sends a flurry of e-mails at 5 p.m. on a Friday asking for various research projects or draft pleadings only to go radio silent when you ask for a time-frame.

Theopliske8711 wrote: Under these impossible circumstances, I'm amazed that there is an attrition rate at all. Seems to me half the associates would be fired within a year or two at best, and for shit that is unlikely to even be their fault.

You're not going to get fired for it, you're going to get some level of reprimanded.

But very, very rarely does anyone point out that you did something well/flawlessly, because that's the expectation. So all I ever hope for in terms of feedback is hearing nothing. So I just constantly hope that no one talks to me. Because if they're emailing me/stopping by my office, it's either to give me more work or to inform me about something I fucked up. This makes being at the office a rather grim experience.

Partners expect a level of work commensurate with the $160k they're paying you. You feel rewarded for that work commensurate with the $70k equivalent salary you have after student loans.

Of course this is 100% the fault of greedy law schools. Nothing the firms can do about it.

there are other current and former law students working there

Theopliske8711 wrote:

IAFG wrote:

rayiner wrote:
2) The partners and seniors expect you to anticipate and take care of the little things, but don't give you enough big picture information to be able to effectively do that.

And when you say you don't know something they look at you like you're an idiot. The docket is 3k entries long, I don't know how much background reading aside from what you directed me to you thought I was going to do...

So how do you guys go about doing your work in such a situation?

Don't take anything personally, ever.

El Pollito wrote:

Theopliske8711 wrote:
So how do you guys go about doing your work in such a situation?

Don't take anything personally, ever.

Can I get a plaque for your office that reads "Immune to Butthurt"?