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Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:11 am
by Ohz
Hello all,
I'll try to keep this brief. I'm active duty military and trying to knock out my undergrad while still enlisted. I was trained in Chinese at the Defense Language Institute and did well enough to proclaim myself very proficient, yet not fluent (DLPT 2+/2+, will raise to 3/3 before I get out).
I'm considering majoring in either Chinese or Philosophy. Chinese is a seemingly fine choice as I already know the language quite well and it's both practical and applicable. Philosophy, though, interests me more and will prepare me better for law school. I would personally rather do Philosophy.
I'm attending UH Manoa, though; I have a feeling that a degree in Chinese at UH will bear more weight than one in Philosophy. In short, Chinese will be better in terms of uniqueness and getting in to law school, but the logical reasoning and analytical skills learned in Philosophy can be utilized during law school. I know law schools "don't care" what the major is, but I hope to be looking at something around the NYU tier, and competition is rough - So softs do (kind of) matter.
What do you think? Can anyone who did major in Philosophy or a foreign language encourage or dissuade me one way or the other?
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:38 am
by fanlinxun
Neither Chinese not philosophy will help you get in to law school, but grades and LSAT will. Chinese is more likely to help you when going through oci, but probably more as a tie-breaker than helping you get a job you don't have the grades for. The reality is that there are a lot of Chinese speaking students in law school, both native and nonnative. Even worse is that employers generally don't know how good your Chinese is, so you can't even distinguish yourself from the random guy who barely knows how to say nihao.
Choose a major you enjoy and run with it. Get good grades and crush the LSAT and you will get in to a good law school. Do well in law school and you will get a job, regardless of your undergrad major. All of these are easier said than done, but they are things you should be focused on now.
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:42 am
by NYker
So, I was a philosophy major after serving in the military and now attend CCN. I don't think that either major would make a huge difference, however, I would say that if you are interested in possibly practicing as an attorney in Asia (or at least in an Asia-related practice) strengthening your language skills would probably be a significant boost for you when interviewing for jobs (specifically in biglaw). I would say that the strength of a philosophy degree would not have an overwhelming impact on your analytical abilities for law school (although I'm sure some people may disagree). The one major strength of a philosophy major, though, would be that if you are so much more interested in it than Chinese you would likely perform better and your GPA is overwhelmingly more important than your major for admissions.
I don't think either major would make a significant difference for admissions, unless you would do significantly better in one than the other. I understand the idea of having strong softs but your military experience will matter much more than which major you have. Another consideration may be that a philosophy degree will be generally useless without grad school if you decide not to attend law school afterward. I'm not sure whether the same is true for a Chinese degree.
Hope that helps!
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:40 am
by Nova
Neither will be a significant factor in law school admissions. Nor will either prep you significantly better for law school.
Take law school out of your equation
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:05 am
by El Principe
Do something that'll get you a job when you graduate, just in case you have to sit out.
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:30 am
by TooOld4This
Neither degree will help you with either getting in to law school or doing well at law school, even at HYS. Chinese may be marginally more useful in helping you get a legal job after you graduate. However, the advice above is the best answer. Get a degree in something that will get you a job in case you don't go to law school. There is absolutely zero downside for your law school goals in doing this, and as I am certain your military training has taught you, having a plan b, even if you never intend on engaging it, is always prudent.
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:17 am
by 09042014
I don' t get how you can major in a language? Speaking chinese is something like a billion toddlers do.
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:44 am
by Kafkaesquire
Nova wrote:Neither will be a significant factor in law school admissions. Nor will either prep you significantly better for law school.
Take law school out of your equation
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:56 am
by Kafkaesquire
Desert Fox wrote:I don' t get how you can major in a language? Speaking chinese is something like a billion toddlers do.
Really?
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:28 pm
by 20141023
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Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:29 pm
by ph14
Ohz wrote:Hello all,
I'll try to keep this brief. I'm active duty military and trying to knock out my undergrad while still enlisted. I was trained in Chinese at the Defense Language Institute and did well enough to proclaim myself very proficient, yet not fluent (DLPT 2+/2+, will raise to 3/3 before I get out).
I'm considering majoring in either Chinese or Philosophy. Chinese is a seemingly fine choice as I already know the language quite well and it's both practical and applicable. Philosophy, though, interests me more and will prepare me better for law school. I would personally rather do Philosophy.
I'm attending UH Manoa, though; I have a feeling that a degree in Chinese at UH will bear more weight than one in Philosophy. In short, Chinese will be better in terms of uniqueness and getting in to law school, but the logical reasoning and analytical skills learned in Philosophy can be utilized during law school. I know law schools "don't care" what the major is, but I hope to be looking at something around the NYU tier, and competition is rough - So softs do (kind of) matter.
What do you think? Can anyone who did major in Philosophy or a foreign language encourage or dissuade me one way or the other?
Philosophy, no question.
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:45 pm
by patogordo
Kafkaesquire wrote:Desert Fox wrote:I don' t get how you can major in a language? Speaking chinese is something like a billion toddlers do.
Really?
probably more like 100 million but let's not split hairs
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:47 pm
by patogordo
ph14 wrote:Ohz wrote:Hello all,
I'll try to keep this brief. I'm active duty military and trying to knock out my undergrad while still enlisted. I was trained in Chinese at the Defense Language Institute and did well enough to proclaim myself very proficient, yet not fluent (DLPT 2+/2+, will raise to 3/3 before I get out).
I'm considering majoring in either Chinese or Philosophy. Chinese is a seemingly fine choice as I already know the language quite well and it's both practical and applicable. Philosophy, though, interests me more and will prepare me better for law school. I would personally rather do Philosophy.
I'm attending UH Manoa, though; I have a feeling that a degree in Chinese at UH will bear more weight than one in Philosophy. In short, Chinese will be better in terms of uniqueness and getting in to law school, but the logical reasoning and analytical skills learned in Philosophy can be utilized during law school. I know law schools "don't care" what the major is, but I hope to be looking at something around the NYU tier, and competition is rough - So softs do (kind of) matter.
What do you think? Can anyone who did major in Philosophy or a foreign language encourage or dissuade me one way or the other?
Philosophy, no question.
if you do philosophy, make sure you also do a lot of drugs. plenty of insufferable armchair philosophers on tls; not enough dowus.
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:07 pm
by 09042014
Kafkaesquire wrote:Desert Fox wrote:I don' t get how you can major in a language? Speaking chinese is something like a billion toddlers do.
Really?
Yea really. I don't understand how speaking a language is a major. Minor? I guess. Community center classes definitely. But as your major? I don't get it.
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:47 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
Desert Fox wrote:Kafkaesquire wrote:Desert Fox wrote:I don' t get how you can major in a language? Speaking chinese is something like a billion toddlers do.
Really?
Yea really. I don't understand how speaking a language is a major. Minor? I guess. Community center classes definitely. But as your major? I don't get it.
Majoring in a language isn't majoring in how to learn it - it's basically like majoring in English, except in the other language - so it's more literature/linguistics than La plume de ma tante est sur le bureau. f you haven't studied the language before getting to college, you're probably not going to be able to major in it because you won't know it well enough to take the required courses within the usual time frame.
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:29 pm
by 20141023
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Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:19 am
by HRomanus
El Principe wrote:Do something that'll get you a job when you graduate, just in case you have to sit out.
This. Choosing a major strictly based on law school (which could be up to four years away) is a horrible decision. People attend and achieve in law school with every conceivable degree. That being said, choosing the discipline you are most interested in will likely increase your GPA in it.
If this has any bearing,
here's a study of UG major with uGPA and LSAT scores. Philosophy scores highly on average LSAT scores.
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:43 am
by A. Nony Mouse
Regulus wrote:A. Nony Mouse wrote:If you haven't studied the language before getting to college, you're probably not going to be able to major in it because you won't know it well enough to take the required courses within the usual time frame.
Actually, the funny part is that the more difficult the language, the less true this is. For Spanish and French, the 101 level class in college might start off with a presumption of having done prior coursework on the language. However, if you starting moving into difficult languages (Russian, Middle-Eastern, Asian, etc.), most people haven't ever taken classes on them before because most elementary/middle/high schools just don't offer classes on these languages.
Oh, the 101 class won't presume you've had any background in the language, whatever language it is. But it won't count for the major, either. So for instance, Russian 101 doesn't count for the major; the major requirements are all going to be 300 and 400 level courses, and it can be hard to get to a point where you can take those upper-division classes in time to graduate if you haven't had the language before starting college. (Though admittedly, I'm more familiar with languages like French/German - the rarer languages may cut people more slack for the reasons you mention. I know my friend the French prof has said people who come in taking French 101 aren't going to be in a position to major.)
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:41 pm
by Kafkaesquire
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Regulus wrote:A. Nony Mouse wrote:If you haven't studied the language before getting to college, you're probably not going to be able to major in it because you won't know it well enough to take the required courses within the usual time frame.
Actually, the funny part is that the more difficult the language, the less true this is. For Spanish and French, the 101 level class in college might start off with a presumption of having done prior coursework on the language. However, if you starting moving into difficult languages (Russian, Middle-Eastern, Asian, etc.), most people haven't ever taken classes on them before because most elementary/middle/high schools just don't offer classes on these languages.
Oh, the 101 class won't presume you've had any background in the language, whatever language it is. But it won't count for the major, either. So for instance, Russian 101 doesn't count for the major; the major requirements are all going to be 300 and 400 level courses, and it can be hard to get to a point where you can take those upper-division classes in time to graduate if you haven't had the language before starting college. (Though admittedly, I'm more familiar with languages like French/German - the rarer languages may cut people more slack for the reasons you mention. I know my friend the French prof has said people who come in taking French 101 aren't going to be in a position to major.)
A. Nony Mouse, thanks for doing the right thing and ceasing that guy's blatant and lazy ignorance. It's not that I didn't want to, I just didn't want to be an enabler.
Re: Undergrad - Chinese Vs. Philosophy
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:45 pm
by Kafkaesquire
patogordo wrote:ph14 wrote:Ohz wrote:Hello all,
I'll try to keep this brief. I'm active duty military and trying to knock out my undergrad while still enlisted. I was trained in Chinese at the Defense Language Institute and did well enough to proclaim myself very proficient, yet not fluent (DLPT 2+/2+, will raise to 3/3 before I get out).
I'm considering majoring in either Chinese or Philosophy. Chinese is a seemingly fine choice as I already know the language quite well and it's both practical and applicable. Philosophy, though, interests me more and will prepare me better for law school. I would personally rather do Philosophy.
I'm attending UH Manoa, though; I have a feeling that a degree in Chinese at UH will bear more weight than one in Philosophy. In short, Chinese will be better in terms of uniqueness and getting in to law school, but the logical reasoning and analytical skills learned in Philosophy can be utilized during law school. I know law schools "don't care" what the major is, but I hope to be looking at something around the NYU tier, and competition is rough - So softs do (kind of) matter.
What do you think? Can anyone who did major in Philosophy or a foreign language encourage or dissuade me one way or the other?
Philosophy, no question.
if you do philosophy, make sure you also do a lot of drugs. plenty of insufferable armchair philosophers on tls; not enough dowus.
Philosophy and literature should be the foundation of any person's education. If you have to go to a classroom to get this, do it.