Top Law Schools

So I noticed a fare amount of firms have 1L diversity programs...

If you go to a regional university, do you actually have a shot at these programs or are they reserved for T20+Howard?

Kinda depends. Judging from what I've seen selection is half law school half undergrad. So if you went to Harvard for undergrad, maybe you'd have a shot at some of them. Truth is a heck of a lot of these go to people at T6 schools.

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Counter to what regulus said: even at top schools diversity 1L SAs are hard to get. They aren't reserved for anybody. Lower ranked schools have a shot but are obviously at a disadvantage.

However, the answer to this question should in no way impact which school you choose to go to.

Adding on to this (also I'm 99% sure this is a stupid question, but I'll ask anyways), but do law firms also favor typical URM students for their diversity positions, or would being a non-URM hispanic be just as significant?

alansadler wrote:Adding on to this (also I'm 99% sure this is a stupid question, but I'll ask anyways), but do law firms also favor typical URM students for their diversity positions, or would being a non-URM hispanic be just as significant?

Also interested in whether or not regular (non-UR)Ms might qualify for diversity positions. thanks

I've seen students at TTTs get 1L diversity positions - but I'm referring to regional schools getting 1L SAs in regional markets that are only interested in local, home-grown students.


Just to give an example - I meant like a Dayton Law student getting a SA in Dayton. Or a Case student getting a job at Jones Day in Cleveland.

Ditto to cinephile - people at my regional school got diversity SAs for their 1L summer (that turned into permanent jobs for some people), but there aren't any T14s in the market, and the market is small and insular, which makes it a little different. I don't know anyone who left the market and got a diversity SA in a major market (but I don't know anyone who tried, either).

My impression is that such programs are less rigid in defining diversity than law schools are for admissions purposes - I know Asian Americans who have had diversity SAs, though in a region where Asian Americans are uncommon.

cinephile wrote:I've seen students at TTTs get 1L diversity positions - but I'm referring to regional schools getting 1L SAs in regional markets that are only interested in local, home-grown students.

I'm a student at UC Hastings, which is certainly regional, and I know two classmates who received diversity 1L SAs, both in San Francisco. I'm offering this only because the SF market is usually willing to hire from any of the T14, so it's different from a regional market "only interested in local home-grown students" as cinephile put it (though cinephile's experience is no doubt accurate in other markets!).

That seems to suggest that regional students may be competitive, even in markets that receive national attention (e.g. SF/SV), but unfortunately I'm a white guy so I can't personally comment on how the process worked, only that it worked out for two people I know.

t-14orbust wrote:

alansadler wrote:Adding on to this (also I'm 99% sure this is a stupid question, but I'll ask anyways), but do law firms also favor typical URM students for their diversity positions, or would being a non-URM hispanic be just as significant?

Also interested in whether or not regular (non-UR)Ms might qualify for diversity positions. thanks

Oddly enough, I also have a little bit of insight to offer here - though it's not really helpful. This is entirely firm specific. So, as an example, I know (through classmates) that at some firms a caucasian who is openly LGBT will qualify for a 1L diversity position, while at other, comparably ranked firms, they will not look at LGBT status. By extension, it can be inferred that what qualifies as "diverse" will depend upon the firm more than the legal marketplace. Still, there's nothing to lose by applying, and if your application makes a good case (say your resume shows leadership in OutLaw) the firm might consider your situation even if they hadn't before, so why not just go for it?

Caveat - as stated above, I'm not even remotely diverse, so this is based upon the experience of my colleagues and if anyone else has personal experience you should listen to them first.

OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:

alansadler wrote: Also interested in whether or not regular (non-UR)Ms might qualify for diversity positions. thanks

Oddly enough, I also have a little bit of insight to offer here - though it's not really helpful. This is entirely firm specific. So, as an example, I know (through classmates) that at some firms a caucasian who is openly LGBT will qualify for a 1L diversity position, while at other, comparably ranked firms, they will not look at LGBT status. By extension, it can be inferred that what qualifies as "diverse" will depend upon the firm more than the legal marketplace. Still, there's nothing to lose by applying, and if your application makes a good case (say your resume shows leadership in OutLaw) the firm might consider your situation even if they hadn't before, so why not just go for it?

I'd imagine that it is difficult, if not impossible, to obtain a leadership position in a school group such as Outlaw by the end of your first semester of 1L. Do firms ask if you are LGBT? Do people volunteer that information in an interview? On their résumé? I am legitimately curious.

In which areas of the country would Asians be considered "diverse"? I assume CA is out, but what about TX? The northeast? Do people volunteer their race by joining the so-and-so students association? It almost seems obligatory for minorities to join the requisite groups, or feel compelled to awkwardly reference it in an interview, if they want to derive an advantage anyway.

I'm not an expert on these, but you'll see a lot of diversity 1L SAs advertised on Symplicity in December and January. They take several different forms:

-Some 1L SA applications ask for a diversity statement. These are usually a page or two. For example, how would you contribute to diversity at Lannister Stark & Baratheon or in the legal profession more broadly? Or "How would you enhance the Winterfell County Bar Association's diversity initiatives?" You might even get a totally different prompt like "What are some challenges you've overcome?" Keep in mind that diversity is a broad term for firm purposes. If you're a poor bastard serving on the Night's Watch, you might be able to spin that in a compelling way.

-Others will check if you're a member (i.e. you pay dues) of Outlaws, the Korea Society, or some other diversity-signaling organization. If you have a name that signals your diversity, that might catch a recruiting professional's eye. They might google you.

-Finally, some firms won't know that you're diverse until they see you in person. I guess this can happen during Spring OCI (a mini OCI). Remember that firms without a specific diversity position will still be looking for diverse candidates. Make your diversity clear on your resume and massmail.

If you get an interview, some firms will ask you about diversity in passing at the interview. Others will treat the callback as a regular old callback (4-6 screeners in a row, usually followed by an awkward lunch). There won't be any diversity questions.

If you're interviewing in a non-NYC market, you'll DEFINITELY be asked about ties. "What makes you want to work in Winterfell? I see you grew up and went to college in King's Landing." Be prepared for this question--firms want to increase diversity in the local bar, and that means they want you to stick around. Honestly, though, if you have zero ties to Winterfell, you're going get beaten out by locals.

banjo wrote:I'm not an expert on these, but you'll see a lot of diversity 1L SAs advertised on Symplicity in December and January. They take several different forms:

-Some 1L SA applications ask for a diversity statement. These are usually a page or two. For example, how would you contribute to diversity at Lannister Stark & Baratheon or in the legal profession more broadly? Or "How would you enhance the Winterfell County Bar Association's diversity initiatives?" You might even get a totally different prompt like "What are some challenges you've overcome?" Keep in mind that diversity is a broad term for firm purposes. If you're a poor bastard serving on the Night's Watch, you might be able to spin that in a compelling way.

-Others will check if you're a member (i.e. you pay dues) of Outlaws, the Korea Society, or some other diversity-signaling organization. If you have a name that signals your diversity, that might catch a recruiting professional's eye. They might google you.

-Finally, some firms won't know that you're diverse until they see you in person. I guess this can happen during Spring OCI (a mini OCI). Remember that firms without a specific diversity position will still be looking for diverse candidates. Make your diversity clear on your resume and massmail.

If you get an interview, some firms will ask you about diversity in passing at the interview. Others will treat the callback as a regular old callback (4-6 screeners in a row, usually followed by an awkward lunch). There won't be any diversity questions.

If you're interviewing in a non-NYC market, you'll DEFINITELY be asked about ties. "What makes you want to work in Winterfell? I see you grew up and went to college in King's Landing." Be prepared for this question--firms want to increase diversity in the local bar, and that means they want you to stick around. Honestly, though, if you have zero ties to Winterfell, you're going get beaten out by locals.

Someone's excited about tonight's episode.

Haha of course. I think I might rotate through a Trial by Combat group one of these summers.

In secondary markets you actually see much more of the spots going to diverse candidates from local schools. If you aren't talking NYC or DC I actually don't think it's that big of a deal. In a lot of ways people on here overstate the top school thing. Unless you're going to a downright TTT grades and accolades often play a much bigger role.

.ople.

t-14orbust wrote:

alansadler wrote:Adding on to this (also I'm 99% sure this is a stupid question, but I'll ask anyways), but do law firms also favor typical URM students for their diversity positions, or would being a non-URM hispanic be just as significant?

Also interested in whether or not regular (non-UR)Ms might qualify for diversity positions. thanks

They do. Diversity positions encompass all forms of diversity. Generally ethnic/racial/gender/sexual orientation, though arguments can be made for socioeconomic/religious as well. You can read the diversity SA applications themselves and they will talk about the kind of diversity they are looking for (usually they just say all kinds).

As for whether certain types of minorities have an advantage over others in applying for these positions, I honestly don't know. What rad says makes sense (that African-Americans are preferred) but I honestly have no idea if that is true since I haven't really seen anything that says one way or the other. In the end it doesn't really matter. If you qualify for the position, you should apply.

Regional schools definitely have a shot at SA through diversity positions (PM me, if you'd like). Like the posts above, some firms may prefer URMs in the law school admissions sense, but most do not care. Both asians and women, who wouldn't get a URM boost during law school admissions, get these positions as a diverse candidates. Most firms just want to be able to check off a box saying they hire diverse candidates.

With that said, there's no reason to ask the question, OP. If you're deciding on a school, don't even think about 1L positions. You should be focused on your 2L summer employment prospects -> after graduation employment as criteria for choosing law school. Moreover, if you're just asking to see whether you should apply or not, my response to 99% of these questions is: APPLY. Nothing to lose, everything to gain.