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Would it be a good idea to reach out to people from my UG or law school I've accepted admission to? I'm wondering if it's too early to start talking to associates at firms that I'm interested in for informational interviews and whatnot.

BleekerSuits wrote:Would it be a good idea to reach out to people from my UG or law school I've accepted admission to? I'm wondering if it's too early to start talking to associates at firms that I'm interested in for informational interviews and whatnot.

Yes, if you aren't doing this you are going to find yourself way behind the eight ball.

While I don't think it's a horrible idea, I'd say don't do it. You'll have so many opportunities throughout the year that it's a waste of your summer as a 0L to network. I know for a fact, that as 0L, I'd have had very little useful / thoughtful to ask associates. By attending events at which firms come to your school and talk about their experience, you'll get a general feel for what are good Qs and what aren't.

I honestly think informational meetings should be treated as an interview; that is, while you're asking questions, they're also judging whether or not they want to put their name on you as a candidate to watch out for, come OCI. Last thing you want to do is come across as an obnoxious, over-eager 0L wasting their time.

With that said, networking is hugely important and I can attest to how successful you can be via networking (of course, you need the grades as well).

As a 0L, relax and enjoy the normalcy of your life while you still can.

BleekerSuits wrote:Would it be a good idea to reach out to people from my UG or law school I've accepted admission to? I'm wondering if it's too early to start talking to associates at firms that I'm interested in for informational interviews and whatnot.

I don't think it can hurt to reach out to some associates who attended your law school. Could help give you some good insider info you can use at OCI next year. Of course, be tactful and don't go overboard. That is usually the problem (i.e. the people who want to be proactive usually take it too far). Be tactful in what you discuss. Ask them about their experience at your school, what profs are great to take classes with, OCI tips, what their firms are like, etc. But don't make it sound like you are reaching out to them just to take advantage. Again, its a very fine line.

In my experience, I've reached out to recent grads that I either previously knew or that someone put me in contact with. I've found it to be quite helpful, because they've given me recommendations on classes/professors and offered outlines (if recent grads). Others were just happy to talk with me about my options, try to convince me, etc. It has led to follow up communication that I think could be valuable down the line.

IMO, you can never do too much networking.

Attax wrote:In my experience, I've reached out to recent grads that I either previously knew or that someone put me in contact with. I've found it to be quite helpful, because they've given me recommendations on classes/professors and offered outlines (if recent grads). Others were just happy to talk with me about my options, try to convince me, etc. It has led to follow up communication that I think could be valuable down the line.

IMO, you can never do too much networking.

What's the protocol on cold contacting in this context?

I reached out to a partner at a V20 in my local market my 0L summer after I was admitted. Had lunch with him and now I have a callback lined up with them this summer without having to go through OCI. I think its definitely worth it if you want to take the time to do it, but its obviously not necessary.

Cobretti wrote:I reached out to a partner at a V20 in my local market my 0L summer after I was admitted. Had lunch with him and now I have a callback lined up with them this summer without having to go through OCI. I think its definitely worth it if you want to take the time to do it, but its obviously not necessary.

Did you propose lunch?

Im still a 2L so take my opinion for what you think it's worth, but I feel like this is an awful idea and I'd go as far to say it's OBJECTIVELY awful.

What are you going to talk to this guy about? Anything related to the law? How could you? And assuming you don't talk about the law, what are you gonna say? "Hey, you work at a great firm. I'm going to the law school you graduated from. How do you feel about setting aside a spot for me come OCIs?"

I dont know about you but I'd be pretty turned off if someone were to try to "network" with me in that fashion. I may be in the extreme to say I'd proactively try to prevent him from getting a position at my firm, but I don't think I'm at all representing a minority when I say I sure wouldn't want to help.

HRomanus wrote:

Cobretti wrote:I reached out to a partner at a V20 in my local market my 0L summer after I was admitted. Had lunch with him and now I have a callback lined up with them this summer without having to go through OCI. I think its definitely worth it if you want to take the time to do it, but its obviously not necessary.

Did you propose lunch?

I just said I'd like to get together to discuss the school and any advice he'd have for me and he got back to me saying he'd like to do lunch.

And @ daleearnhardt123 if you don't know how to talk to an alum without seeming abrasive or needy, networking may not be for you. In the case I'm talking about I met the guy for lunch and just talked about moving to Chicago, how to do well 1L year and at the end when I was leaving he told me to email him my resume and law school app, and said he'd fly me out for a callback before OCI. That summer is now coming up and we're in touch still and he has my 1st semester grades and it looks like its still working out. YMMV

Also, I called probably 4-5 alumni and just had nice conversations with them about what to expect and advice, and those didn't turn into anything, which is fine. Just get in touch with people and sometimes you'll get lucky. But most importantly, do not listen to daleearnhardt123.

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rambleon65 wrote:While I don't think it's a horrible idea, I'd say don't do it. You'll have so many opportunities throughout the year that it's a waste of your summer as a 0L to network. I know for a fact, that as 0L, I'd have had very little useful / thoughtful to ask associates. By attending events at which firms come to your school and talk about their experience, you'll get a general feel for what are good Qs and what aren't.

I honestly think informational meetings should be treated as an interview; that is, while you're asking questions, they're also judging whether or not they want to put their name on you as a candidate to watch out for, come OCI. Last thing you want to do is come across as an obnoxious, over-eager 0L wasting their time.

With that said, networking is hugely important and I can attest to how successful you can be via networking (of course, you need the grades as well).

As a 0L, relax and enjoy the normalcy of your life while you still can.

It's not that hard to ask decent questions and not waste someone's time

There will not be that many opportunities, especially if you're going to an out of state t14 or something

Cobretti wrote:

HRomanus wrote:

Cobretti wrote:I reached out to a partner at a V20 in my local market my 0L summer after I was admitted. Had lunch with him and now I have a callback lined up with them this summer without having to go through OCI. I think its definitely worth it if you want to take the time to do it, but its obviously not necessary.

Did you propose lunch?

I just said I'd like to get together to discuss the school and any advice he'd have for me and he got back to me saying he'd like to do lunch.

And @ daleearnhardt123 if you don't know how to talk to an alum without seeming abrasive or needy, networking may not be for you. In the case I'm talking about I met the guy for lunch and just talked about moving to Chicago, how to do well 1L year and at the end when I was leaving he told me to email him my resume and law school app, and said he'd fly me out for a callback before OCI. That summer is now coming up and we're in touch still and he has my 1st semester grades and it looks like its still working out. YMMV

Also, I called probably 4-5 alumni and just had nice conversations with them about what to expect and advice, and those didn't turn into anything, which is fine. Just get in touch with people and sometimes you'll get lucky. But most importantly, do not listen to daleearnhardt123.

Every once in a while a blind squirrel finds a nut. If nothing else, I can confidently say that there are people out there like me who'd find this behavior a turnoff. An 0L who knows nothing about the law or even my alma mater trying to (very transparently) get an "in" with my firm? Why would that be remotely appealing? Why am I going to go out of my way to do anything for a complete stranger who has no grades, and a stranger who is trying to game me no less?

Sure, you may get lucky and run in to the guy who would love to waste time during his day over coffee spewing BS law school advice to anyone who's willing to listen, and then reward the listener for his patience by helping him out during OCI. I think such people are a distinct minority, and while you *probably* won't hurt yourself with most of the other alum you contact, you certainly run a risk that one sees through your transparency and doesn't take well to it.

For the record, I think a 1L (especially at this time of year) would be perfectly reasonable to pursue this "networking" strategy. My comments are directed at 0Ls who have probably not even made their seat deposits yet.

daleearnhardt123 wrote:

Cobretti wrote:

HRomanus wrote:

Cobretti wrote:I reached out to a partner at a V20 in my local market my 0L summer after I was admitted. Had lunch with him and now I have a callback lined up with them this summer without having to go through OCI. I think its definitely worth it if you want to take the time to do it, but its obviously not necessary.

Did you propose lunch?

I just said I'd like to get together to discuss the school and any advice he'd have for me and he got back to me saying he'd like to do lunch.

And @ daleearnhardt123 if you don't know how to talk to an alum without seeming abrasive or needy, networking may not be for you. In the case I'm talking about I met the guy for lunch and just talked about moving to Chicago, how to do well 1L year and at the end when I was leaving he told me to email him my resume and law school app, and said he'd fly me out for a callback before OCI. That summer is now coming up and we're in touch still and he has my 1st semester grades and it looks like its still working out. YMMV

Also, I called probably 4-5 alumni and just had nice conversations with them about what to expect and advice, and those didn't turn into anything, which is fine. Just get in touch with people and sometimes you'll get lucky. But most importantly, do not listen to daleearnhardt123.

Every once in a while a blind squirrel finds a nut. If nothing else, I can confidently say that there are people out there like me who'd find this behavior a turnoff. An 0L who knows nothing about the law or even my alma mater trying to (very transparently) get an "in" with my firm? Why would that be remotely appealing? Why am I going to go out of my way to do anything for a complete stranger who has no grades, and a stranger who is trying to game me no less?

Sure, you may get lucky and run in to the guy who would love to waste time during his day over coffee spewing BS law school advice to anyone who's willing to listen, and then reward the listener for his patience by helping him out during OCI. I think such people are a distinct minority, and while you *probably* won't hurt yourself with most of the other alum you contact, you certainly run a risk that one sees through your transparency and doesn't take well to it.

For the record, I think a 1L (especially at this time of year) would be perfectly reasonable to pursue this "networking" strategy. My comments are directed at 0Ls who have probably not even made their seat deposits yet.

Again, if you approach it like getting an in with the firm, you're dojo it wrong

If you want to ask Qs about what law school is like or what someone's practice area is like, that's fine

At worst you'll be ignored and forgotten and it won't matter. But I'm willing to bet you'll get some coffees, lunches, and good conversations

daleearnhardt123 wrote:Every once in a while a blind squirrel finds a nut. If nothing else, I can confidently say that there are people out there like me who'd find this behavior a turnoff. An 0L who knows nothing about the law or even my alma mater trying to (very transparently) get an "in" with my firm? Why would that be remotely appealing? Why am I going to go out of my way to do anything for a complete stranger who has no grades, and a stranger who is trying to game me no less?

Sure, you may get lucky and run in to the guy who would love to waste time during his day over coffee spewing BS law school advice to anyone who's willing to listen, and then reward the listener for his patience by helping him out during OCI. I think such people are a distinct minority, and while you *probably* won't hurt yourself with most of the other alum you contact, you certainly run a risk that one sees through your transparency and doesn't take well to it.

For the record, I think a 1L (especially at this time of year) would be perfectly reasonable to pursue this "networking" strategy. My comments are directed at 0Ls who have probably not even made their seat deposits yet.

You do not understand what networking is or how to do it.

Yeah, obviously calling up and saying, "Hi, how do I get in with your firm?" isn't going to get you anywhere.

But if a 0L called me up and said, "I start at your alma mater in the fall, do you have time to talk about what the school is like and give me some tips on what I can best take advantage of?" I'd be perfectly happy to talk to them.

I'm a 0L and I reached out to some random partners and associates in big law firms in my city for informational interviews over lunch or coffee before I was even sure I was going to go through with pursuing law school/applying. The five people I contacted were more than happy to meet with me to discuss law school, hiring, and the nature of their job and practice area. In fact, they were all impressed (holy shit, a millennial seeking guidance!) that I was taking the time to check up on what lawyers actually do, the state of the city's legal market, and how I might make myself hirable for firms.

Most of them told me to keep them posted on if/where I decided to go to law school, and a few encouraged me to [e]mail them directly about an interview after 1L once I told them about some of my acceptances. So anecdotally I see a lot of upside in practicing the motions of networking especially since it was something I had initially dreaded and felt uncomfortable with doing. Plus those awesome free lunches...

snagglepuss wrote:I'm a 0L and I reached out to some random partners and associates in big law firms in my city for informational interviews over lunch or coffee before I was even sure I was going to go through with pursuing law school/applying. The five people I contacted were more than happy to meet with me to discuss law school, hiring, and the nature of their job and practice area. In fact, they were all impressed (holy shit, a millennial seeking guidance!) that I was taking the time to check up on what lawyers actually do, the state of the city's legal market, and how I might make myself hirable for firms.

Most of them told me to keep them posted on if/where I decided to go to law school, and a few encouraged me to [e]mail them directly about an interview after 1L once I told them about some of my acceptances. So anecdotally I see a lot of upside in practicing the motions of networking especially since it was something I had initially dreaded and felt uncomfortable with doing. Plus those awesome free lunches...

This is how it usually goes down

Good job

Likewise, I did a lot of networking when I decided I wanted to pursue a law career. I cold contacted lawyers in my city and have had a lot of "success" (measured by how much I've learned and the connections I've made). Like others have mentioned, if your intent is to try to get an in at a firm, it'll probably show and you're doing it wrong.

For me, I genuinely wanted to learn more about the profession. I'm still a 0L but I'd say over the last year or so, I've made at least 60 contacts. Yes, 60. And we still stay in touch and get coffee sometimes, or at least email. A few have indicated that when the time comes they want to help me with my resume because they're on the recruiting committee at their firm (something I didn't even know). Others invite me to networking meetings they go to and some indicated that if I kept in contact, they'd be happy to hire me out of law school. I think all except one attorney was from a biglaw firm.

I think that if you're genuine, you can learn a lot and that was my intent all along. The network and connections were just a plus for me.

PLEASE DON'T QUOTE

I think it's common knowledge everyone's favourite thing to talk about is themselves. So calling/emailing someone in a law firm to ask about their law school experience and what they've done with it, is clearly something they would love to sit down and talk about. Why this would be "turn-off" is beyond me. You're furthering your education and about to invest some serious dough into law school, I think you have every right to squeeze every resource that you can get your hands on dry. And if they say no, it's nbd. But seriously, few would turn the opportunity to talk about themselves and their experiences.

Not that anyone would do this for undergrad (I don't think) but if someone checking out my undergrad emailed asking this, I would be so excited to help them out.

Anyways this thread was helpful! Hopefully I'll get out to where my school is located sometime early in the summer and can put some of this into action.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Yeah, obviously calling up and saying, "Hi, how do I get in with your firm?" isn't going to get you anywhere.

But if a 0L called me up and said, "I start at your alma mater in the fall, do you have time to talk about what the school is like and give me some tips on what I can best take advantage of?" I'd be perfectly happy to talk to them.

This. I didn't look at it as a networking opportunity as the primary reason for the encounter. I did it to legitimately ask some questions from recent grads about their times, how they took advantage of the opportunities, what they did that they felt helped them be most successful, etc. Sure, some asked to stay in touch and let them know how it is going through 1L year, but that was not the purpose.

Granted, for one who is a fairly good friend, I was more comfortable asking about how he got into biglaw in the field that interests me, but that was because I've known him outside of a legal context and knew he wouldn't mind sharing his path to his career. This, of course, should not be done with someone that you are meeting for the first time.

Cobretti wrote:

HRomanus wrote:

Cobretti wrote:I reached out to a partner at a V20 in my local market my 0L summer after I was admitted. Had lunch with him and now I have a callback lined up with them this summer without having to go through OCI. I think its definitely worth it if you want to take the time to do it, but its obviously not necessary.

Did you propose lunch?

I just said I'd like to get together to discuss the school and any advice he'd have for me and he got back to me saying he'd like to do lunch.

And @ daleearnhardt123 if you don't know how to talk to an alum without seeming abrasive or needy, networking may not be for you. In the case I'm talking about I met the guy for lunch and just talked about moving to Chicago, how to do well 1L year and at the end when I was leaving he told me to email him my resume and law school app, and said he'd fly me out for a callback before OCI. That summer is now coming up and we're in touch still and he has my 1st semester grades and it looks like its still working out. YMMV

Also, I called probably 4-5 alumni and just had nice conversations with them about what to expect and advice, and those didn't turn into anything, which is fine. Just get in touch with people and sometimes you'll get lucky. But most importantly, do not listen to daleearnhardt123.

Might be a dumb question, but who paid for lunch?

foundingfather wrote:

Cobretti wrote:

HRomanus wrote:

Cobretti wrote:I reached out to a partner at a V20 in my local market my 0L summer after I was admitted. Had lunch with him and now I have a callback lined up with them this summer without having to go through OCI. I think its definitely worth it if you want to take the time to do it, but its obviously not necessary.

Did you propose lunch?

I just said I'd like to get together to discuss the school and any advice he'd have for me and he got back to me saying he'd like to do lunch.

And @ daleearnhardt123 if you don't know how to talk to an alum without seeming abrasive or needy, networking may not be for you. In the case I'm talking about I met the guy for lunch and just talked about moving to Chicago, how to do well 1L year and at the end when I was leaving he told me to email him my resume and law school app, and said he'd fly me out for a callback before OCI. That summer is now coming up and we're in touch still and he has my 1st semester grades and it looks like its still working out. YMMV

Also, I called probably 4-5 alumni and just had nice conversations with them about what to expect and advice, and those didn't turn into anything, which is fine. Just get in touch with people and sometimes you'll get lucky. But most importantly, do not listen to daleearnhardt123.

Might be a dumb question, but who paid for lunch?

He did. Especially if its a partner, they always will.

Cobretti wrote: He did. Especially if its a partner, they always will.

Thanks! Is it proper etiquette to offer to pay?

foundingfather wrote:

Cobretti wrote: He did. Especially if its a partner, they always will.

Thanks! Is it proper etiquette to offer to pay?

Sure

They'll probably then chuckle and pick up the check

And say something like "you have no money I got this"