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1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:43 am
by Otunga
Does the 1L summer job matter a whole lot for those pursuing biglaw? Should it be private firm work? Government? Research assistant? Or is it essentially inconsequential?
I would suppose that the obvious advice is to simply get something that's paid, or funded in the case of something in the public sector. However, is it advisable to hedge and do a public job in the case that biglaw doesn't materialize? The logic there is that you could continue to demonstrate commitment to PI during 2L, 2L summer and so on. Thanks!
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:48 am
by A. Nony Mouse
Most people will end up doing something in the public sector, or an RA (or both). 1L SAs are pretty uncommon, except from certain top schools/in certain markets. If you're aiming biglaw, as long as you do something legal you can talk about coherently/interestingly during a firm interview, you'll be fine.
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:41 pm
by lawschool22
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Most people will end up doing something in the public sector, or an RA (or both). 1L SAs are pretty uncommon, except from certain top schools/in certain markets. If you're aiming biglaw, as long as you do something legal you can talk about coherently/interestingly during a firm interview, you'll be fine.
What's the likelihood of getting a SA your 1L year in a secondary market with significant ties? Also assuming there is no t14 in that market. Is this something I could target? I wouldn't mind seeing what firm life is like there vs in a major market for 2L, on the off chance I decided I want to return to the secondary market.
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:42 pm
by mephistopheles
general takeaway is that it's a crapshoot and right time/right place matter a whole lot.
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:47 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
lawschool22 wrote:A. Nony Mouse wrote:Most people will end up doing something in the public sector, or an RA (or both). 1L SAs are pretty uncommon, except from certain top schools/in certain markets. If you're aiming biglaw, as long as you do something legal you can talk about coherently/interestingly during a firm interview, you'll be fine.
What's the likelihood of getting a SA your 1L year in a secondary market with significant ties? Also assuming there is no t14 in that market. Is this something I could target? I wouldn't mind seeing what firm life is like there vs in a major market for 2L, on the off chance I decided I want to return to the secondary market.
There are many people here who know much more about firms than I do who can give much better answers. But since I went to school in a secondary market, FWIW, there didn't seem to be any 1L SAs except diversity positions. (Really small biglaw market.)
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:12 pm
by BigZuck
lawschool22 wrote:A. Nony Mouse wrote:Most people will end up doing something in the public sector, or an RA (or both). 1L SAs are pretty uncommon, except from certain top schools/in certain markets. If you're aiming biglaw, as long as you do something legal you can talk about coherently/interestingly during a firm interview, you'll be fine.
What's the likelihood of getting a SA your 1L year in a secondary market with significant ties? Also assuming there is no t14 in that market. Is this something I could target? I wouldn't mind seeing what firm life is like there vs in a major market for 2L, on the off chance I decided I want to return to the secondary market.
Are you a schmo or do you have anything special going for you (URMness, hotness, etc.)?
Also, what school will you be attending?
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:18 pm
by Tiago Splitter
Otunga wrote:Does the 1L summer job matter a whole lot for those pursuing biglaw? Should it be private firm work? Government? Research assistant? Or is it essentially inconsequential?
I would suppose that the obvious advice is to simply get something that's paid, or funded in the case of something in the public sector. However, is it advisable to hedge and do a public job in the case that biglaw doesn't materialize? The logic there is that you could continue to demonstrate commitment to PI during 2L, 2L summer and so on. Thanks!
Doing something you're interested in that could lead to a career if biglaw doesn't work out actually isn't a bad strategy. Nothing you can do 1L summer will really impact your biglaw chances anyway unless you don't do any kind of legal job. That said, you aren't going to trick anyone into thinking you're a hardcore PI gunner because of an 8 week summer internship, so try to get work in a field that's interesting enough for you to stick with during the school year.
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:42 pm
by lawschool22
BigZuck wrote:lawschool22 wrote:A. Nony Mouse wrote:Most people will end up doing something in the public sector, or an RA (or both). 1L SAs are pretty uncommon, except from certain top schools/in certain markets. If you're aiming biglaw, as long as you do something legal you can talk about coherently/interestingly during a firm interview, you'll be fine.
What's the likelihood of getting a SA your 1L year in a secondary market with significant ties? Also assuming there is no t14 in that market. Is this something I could target? I wouldn't mind seeing what firm life is like there vs in a major market for 2L, on the off chance I decided I want to return to the secondary market.
Are you a schmo or do you have anything special going for you (URMness, hotness, etc.)?
Also, what school will you be attending?
Don't quote but:
Basically I am a schmo lol. I do have 2 years of decent WE as a CPA in big4 accounting/consulting. Maybe that would help me out some? Not sure. I also have a few family friends working as lawyers or partners at Jones Day and Squire in the market I'm referring to, but idk how much I can leverage that into a position.
Also at this point my likely schools are NYU, Duke, and NU. I'm not sure if that makes a difference either.
I mainly am considering this to (1) give myself a potential foot in the door in this market if I choose to target it after graduating, and (2) defray COA.
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:52 pm
by Tiago Splitter
LS22 I know someone who spent a 1L summer at one of the firms you mentioned (the home office of the NLJ250 you mentioned and I'm sure it was the same city you're looking at) so it's very possible. Regular white dude too.
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:41 am
by 20141023
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Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:30 pm
by Yukos
If your major concern is finding out what life is like in your secondary you can always try to split your second summer. Or you could do something like an AUSA in your secondary and then try to set up informational interviews with people at the major firms in the market, which would allow you to get a picture of life there and network at the same time. Obviously not as useful as actually working at the firms, but then again it's not like SAs are representative of associate life anyway.
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:01 pm
by lawschool22
Yukos wrote:If your major concern is finding out what life is like in your secondary you can always try to split your second summer. Or you could do something like an AUSA in your secondary and then try to set up informational interviews with people at the major firms in the market, which would allow you to get a picture of life there and network at the same time. Obviously not as useful as actually working at the firms, but then again it's not like SAs are representative of associate life anyway.
Yeah, the concern is probably 60% that, and 40% money-related. LS is expensive and I really want to minimize debt to the extent I can
. But I agree, that could definitely be one option, especially considering I am looking to lateral into a more PI-type of role. It would be a good to experience that 1L.
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:11 pm
by lawschool22
Regulus wrote:lawschool22 wrote:A. Nony Mouse wrote:Most people will end up doing something in the public sector, or an RA (or both). 1L SAs are pretty uncommon, except from certain top schools/in certain markets. If you're aiming biglaw, as long as you do something legal you can talk about coherently/interestingly during a firm interview, you'll be fine.
What's the likelihood of getting a SA your 1L year in a secondary market with significant ties? Also assuming there is no t14 in that market. Is this something I could target? I wouldn't mind seeing what firm life is like there vs in a major market for 2L, on the off chance I decided I want to return to the secondary market.
From the limited anecdotal data I have at a peer school of those you mentioned, it seems like if you have a few years of decent WE (which you definitely do) and truly strong ties to a real secondary market (for example, I wouldn't really consider places like major cities in Texas "secondary" because they pretty much pay market and are highly sought after), then your chances are
much higher at landing a 1L SA than in a major market. However, "much higher" still means ~20% instead of ~5%, so they aren't "good" chances by any means, but it is definitely possible.
Of my closest friends here, those of us who were older and had strong (familial) ties to less-common secondary markets (think outside of NY / CA / Texas / Philly / Chicago / Boston / D.C.) were able to find biglaw 1L SA gigs even though we were "regular white dudes." Accordingly, if you have family/friends not only in the region but also
in those firms, I imagine that would help a lot. Half if the battle is just getting an initial screening interview, and this is where your acquaintances within those firms could really help your chances.
Just don't put all of your eggs in one basket and make sure to simultaneously apply to other stuff too, because a lot of the other decent jobs go quickly and if you miss the 1L SA boat, then you might end up doing something that you aren't too thrilled about (and it sucks looking for summer work later during your 1L year).
Thanks for the info. It's definitely not one of the major markets you're referring to. It is in the top-20 cities for population size, but definitely not what comes to mind when you think "major biglaw" market. My ties are very strong (as in grew up 30 miles outside of the city, went to UG in the state, lived in the city for 4 years, have tons of family there, etc).
Hopefully I can leverage the family/friends I have in the firms I mentioned. The chances are low, but I'll take 20% over 5% any day haha
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:15 pm
by Winston1984
Might be a dumb questions, but are 1L SAs paid market salary as well?
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:22 pm
by BigZuck
Winston1984 wrote:Might be a dumb questions, but are 1L SAs paid market salary as well?
Yes
Er, well, they are paid what 2L SAs are paid if that's what you're asking
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:58 pm
by Winston1984
BigZuck wrote:Winston1984 wrote:Might be a dumb questions, but are 1L SAs paid market salary as well?
Yes
Er, well, they are paid what 2L SAs are paid if that's what you're asking
Yep. Thanks!
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:18 pm
by Theopliske8711
How does one manage interviews while studying during 1L, or classes? Have conflicts occurred?
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:02 pm
by 20141023
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Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:04 pm
by Theopliske8711
Have you found potential employers to be understanding of potential class schedule conflicts?
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:06 pm
by Tiago Splitter
Theopliske8711 wrote:How does one manage interviews while studying during 1L, or classes? Have conflicts occurred?
People skip classes. It's not a big deal and typically won't have to happen more than a couple of times.
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:21 pm
by ender235
BigZuck wrote:lawschool22 wrote:A. Nony Mouse wrote:Most people will end up doing something in the public sector, or an RA (or both). 1L SAs are pretty uncommon, except from certain top schools/in certain markets. If you're aiming biglaw, as long as you do something legal you can talk about coherently/interestingly during a firm interview, you'll be fine.
What's the likelihood of getting a SA your 1L year in a secondary market with significant ties? Also assuming there is no t14 in that market. Is this something I could target? I wouldn't mind seeing what firm life is like there vs in a major market for 2L, on the off chance I decided I want to return to the secondary market.
Are you a schmo or do you have anything special going for you (URMness, hotness, etc.)?
Also, what school will you be attending?
Hey, sorry to barge in on this topic but how do you know if you are a URM for legal employment purposes? Is it similar to law school applications where there is a select category of URMs? Thanks in advance!
Re: 1L summer for those pursuing biglaw
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:42 am
by BigZuck
ender235 wrote:BigZuck wrote:lawschool22 wrote:A. Nony Mouse wrote:Most people will end up doing something in the public sector, or an RA (or both). 1L SAs are pretty uncommon, except from certain top schools/in certain markets. If you're aiming biglaw, as long as you do something legal you can talk about coherently/interestingly during a firm interview, you'll be fine.
What's the likelihood of getting a SA your 1L year in a secondary market with significant ties? Also assuming there is no t14 in that market. Is this something I could target? I wouldn't mind seeing what firm life is like there vs in a major market for 2L, on the off chance I decided I want to return to the secondary market.
Are you a schmo or do you have anything special going for you (URMness, hotness, etc.)?
Also, what school will you be attending?
Hey, sorry to barge in on this topic but how do you know if you are a URM for legal employment purposes? Is it similar to law school applications where there is a select category of URMs? Thanks in advance!
Depends?
For some firms, M=URM
For others, URM=URM
Seems like, generally speaking, if you are URM for admissions purposes you will get a bump in firm hiring. If you're Asian or whatever, possibly not.