Top Law Schools

As far as I understand, as a Canadian I would work in the states under a TN visa, which is cheaper/easier for a firm to sponsor than the standard H1B - it's been said in other threads that generally for international students its biglaw/bust, seeing as no smaller firm would be willing to pay the cost for an H1B visa - does the same hold true for a Canadian/Mexican law student or are smaller firms willing to pay the smaller price for the TN?

Generally speaking, if I am a Canadian attending a school in the CCN range, should I be much more worried about employment prospects than the Americans at those schools?

I already live very cheap in NYC, and between savings/part time work/hopefully scholarship/family help I'm hoping to graduate with 0 debt.

Do you have a strong desire to work in a small firm? If you go to CCN, you will have a pretty good chance at getting a big firm job where sponsoring you shouldn't be a problem....although we have had some make countervailing arguments on here....basically that if you are an international student, you need to stand out to get hired by a big firm, so median at T14 isn't enough.

A few other things to note: first, CCN generally don't give substantial scholarships, aside from the Hamilton/NYU's named scholarships/Rubinstein; they tend to give most people 30-40K rather than giving a minority of students a larger amount. As I'm sure you know, 30-40K barely makes a dent in terms of avoiding debt. If you have the stats for Ham/Rub, then that's different. Second, if you don't have those stats, why aren't you looking at going to one of the super cheap law schools in your home country? I think the best one only has a median LSAT of 165. You don't have to worry about getting a massive scholarship to afford school, and you don't need to worry about a visa.

somewhatwayward wrote:Do you have a strong desire to work in a small firm? If you go to CCN, you will have a pretty good chance at getting a big firm job where sponsoring you shouldn't be a problem....although we have had some make countervailing arguments on here....basically that if you are an international student, you need to stand out to get hired by a big firm, so median at T14 isn't enough.

A few other things to note: first, CCN generally don't give substantial scholarships, aside from the Hamilton/NYU's named scholarships/Rubinstein; they tend to give most people 30-40K rather than giving a minority of students a larger amount. As I'm sure you know, 30-40K barely makes a dent in terms of avoiding debt. If you have the stats for Ham/Rub, then that's different. Second, if you don't have those stats, why aren't you looking at going to one of the super cheap law schools in your home country? I think the best one only has a median LSAT of 165. You don't have to worry about getting a massive scholarship to afford school, and you don't need to worry about a visa.

i would be going for biglaw just wondering about the contingencies..

im not in the running for a full ride at CCN. 40-50k would probably do the trick (if i get less/none/rejected ill retake and reapply next year) - i would like to stay in NYC which is why i havent put serious thought into canadian schools - although i did apply to toronto.

....i guess what i am wondering is how much this

somewhatwayward wrote:basically that if you are an international student, you need to stand out to get hired by a big firm, so median at T14 isn't enough.

applies to Canadians,

and also, whether non-biglaw firms will commonly sponsor Canadian work visas out of top schools?

Can't you still sit for the NY bar coming from some Canadian schools? I think this is the case for McGill. It would suck to leave NYC, but best case scenario you come back to a big firm after 3 years (or however long it takes in Canada) or you end up working in Canada before lateralling to NYC biglaw at some point (if thats possible).

Either way I imagine you'd have less debt than if you attended CCN since you aren't eligible for substantial $$$. Do you numbers warrant scholarships from lower in the T14?

howlery wrote:..or you end up working in Canada before lateralling to NYC biglaw at some point (if thats possible).

do people do that?

howlery wrote: Do you numbers warrant scholarships from lower in the T14?

174/3.6 so i think so, still waiting to hear back. i applied to Toronto but a lower T14 might be a better option....

does anyone know what it's like getting hired in the US as a Canadian out of a T14 / T6 ?

The lateral move is quite rare from what I heard.
Going to UT law and maybe McGill will somewhat increases the chances for NYC biglaw.
But for other canadian law schools? Barely.

I'm a 3L at UT Law, but friends of mine that went to NYC for law school (CLS/NYU) have had no problems landing biglaw (some recently landed 2L SAs, a few others a year ahead of me who just started as first year associates) and I got the impression being Canadian was never a hurdle. Getting a TN visa each year is kind of a nuisance but pretty straight forward.

Anecdotal info but hope this helps.

Also re NY hiring from UT... seems to be picking up again here. I know a lot of people in my class who split their 2L summer between NY/TO firms, and a few 3Ls got positions with V5 firms to start there after graduation.

Thanks a lot for the info - really great to know.

I did throw a late app to U of T, but my GPA (3.6ish) might be a bit low for them. still my top choices are CLS/NYU though..

Did your Canadian friends at CLS/NYU have a backup plan for if they didn't get biglaw? I'm just wondering if other American employers with a smaller budget are willing to pay the TN fee etc...and if not what other options are...

Not sure what their backup plans were since they all managed to get NY/SF biglaw -- wish I knew more sorry. I think one of them would've come back to Canada and done the NCA process and tried their luck...

As for your chances at UT Law keep in mind they take your best 3 years of UG in their GPA calc rather than the all encompassing LSAC GPA. Regardless I would say you still have a strong chance... if you check out the "Accepted" thread for UT over at lawstudents.ca you can get an idea of what kind of numbers have gotten accepted so far this cycle.

great - thanks a lot, very helpful.

NDJ wrote:....i guess what i am wondering is how much this

somewhatwayward wrote:basically that if you are an international student, you need to stand out to get hired by a big firm, so median at T14 isn't enough.

applies to Canadians,

and also, whether non-biglaw firms will commonly sponsor Canadian work visas out of top schools?

The being foreign element applies as follows: if you are "normal" T-14 and median. You will probably get 4-5 callbacks and 1-2 offers ITE by bidding NYC. The margin between success and failure thus is quite small, and being foreign can potentially hinder you. You are more likely to be unlucky if foreign.
This hindering however is on a spectrum: if you are top 1/4, you are fine unless you have an accent strong enough that people do not understand what you are saying. Also, if you are British or Canadian, you are probably less likely to suffer than if you are from unknown country with no global language skills.