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Does midlaw exist?
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:06 pm
by eric922
I know a lot of people are biglaw or bust, but I was wondering do the major markets have any medium sized firms. I know biglaw pays a lot of money and gives you a lot of prestige, but on the other hand you are basically giving your life over to the firm for at least the first few years and everything I've read about the culture says its' horrible. I know most biglaw firms deal in cases worth millions so I was wondering are there any midlaw firms that still deal in same type of cases as biglaw, but on a smaller scale. Say in the range of 100 of thousands as opposed to millions. I know they wouldn't pay as much, but the trade off for a better life/work balance might be worth the pay cut. Anyway, I was just curious.
Re: Does midlaw exist?
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:09 pm
by Elston Gunn
From top schools, biglaw is much easier to get than midlaw. Midlaw does exist, but they're often not hiring entry level, and there certainly isn't the kind of organized process there is for big law hiring. Don't go to law school planning on making $100K while working 50-60 hours a week.
Re: Does midlaw exist?
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:12 pm
by dingbat
eric922 wrote:I know a lot of people are biglaw or bust, but I was wondering do the major markets have any medium sized firms. I know biglaw pays a lot of money and gives you a lot of prestige, but on the other hand you are basically giving your life over to the firm for at least the first few years and everything I've read about the culture says its' horrible. I know most biglaw firms deal in cases worth millions so I was wondering are there any midlaw firms that still deal in same type of cases as biglaw, but on a smaller scale. Say in the range of 100 of thousands as opposed to millions. I know they wouldn't pay as much, but the trade off for a better life/work balance might be worth the pay cut. Anyway, I was just curious.
Yes there are, but the firms that I've looked at in major cities have billable hour requirements that are either on par with or only marginally better than biglaw (maybe 100 hours less per year). The difference as an associate is that instead of getting paid $160k, you're getting paid $100k, for maybe two hours less work per year
Re: Does midlaw exist?
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:27 pm
by Borg
dingbat wrote:eric922 wrote:I know a lot of people are biglaw or bust, but I was wondering do the major markets have any medium sized firms. I know biglaw pays a lot of money and gives you a lot of prestige, but on the other hand you are basically giving your life over to the firm for at least the first few years and everything I've read about the culture says its' horrible. I know most biglaw firms deal in cases worth millions so I was wondering are there any midlaw firms that still deal in same type of cases as biglaw, but on a smaller scale. Say in the range of 100 of thousands as opposed to millions. I know they wouldn't pay as much, but the trade off for a better life/work balance might be worth the pay cut. Anyway, I was just curious.
Yes there are, but the firms that I've looked at in major cities have billable hour requirements that are either on par with or only marginally better than biglaw (maybe 100 hours less per year). The difference as an associate is that instead of getting paid $160k, you're getting paid $100k, for maybe two hours less work per year
I agree. It looks to me like "midlaw" firms grind just as hard as biglaw firms, but have smaller clients and smaller paychecks. It seems that there are four basic lifestyles: biglaw/midlaw, government/pi, shitlaw, and then other more entrepreneurial practices like civil rights boutiques etc.
Re: Does midlaw exist?
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:27 pm
by UtahPhi
I can't speak to medium-sized firms in major markets, but in secondary markets you can find "mid-law". Also, the hour difference is definitely noticeably. 100-120k per year and at many firms 60 hours/week is completely reasonable, and likely on the high end. I would agree that you shouldn't expect to make 100k working 50-60 hours per week, but I think it is incorrect to say that such a situation is not an option either. From a small sample size, I know 20-30 people who are working in the 100k 50-60 hour range, with only very rare instances of going 60+
Re: Does midlaw exist?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:56 pm
by ndirish2010
Those firms aren't "midlaw," they are "regional biglaw."
Re: Does midlaw exist?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:01 pm
by h_jane_w
I'm staff at a firm of about 100 attorneys in NYC. Pay is about the same as biglaw and hours much much better.
Two things though.
All of the attorneys working here are extremely accomplished. Many have years of work experience in patent law. Many are PHD's, or have expensive experience in chemistry, biology or medicine. A few are doctors. There are a few entry level grads from T5, but they were summers last summer.
Another thing is, exit options are probably much more limited than exit options from biglaw. (although if you have no aspirations of going into government, etc. you might be happy staying)
Re: Does midlaw exist?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:04 pm
by cooldude87
ndirish2010 wrote:Those firms aren't "midlaw," they are "regional biglaw."
TITCR
Re: Does midlaw exist?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:22 pm
by LaBarrister
In my small-ish town of 80,000, many people that I know personally are in midlaw. The associates make 40-60k and the partners make between 100-200k, and though the associates work 50-60 hours per week, the partners probably work 40-50. Not a bad lifestyle, if you ask me. But I do know that most of the hiring goes on by just happening to know someone inside these midlaw firms, or somehow "fitting in," because they are more interested in the applicant's personality than grades.
Edit: Be sure that this is all anecdotal experience from my particular town. Try not to extrapolate too much from this.
Re: Does midlaw exist?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:33 pm
by jwinaz
dingbat wrote:eric922 wrote:I know a lot of people are biglaw or bust, but I was wondering do the major markets have any medium sized firms. I know biglaw pays a lot of money and gives you a lot of prestige, but on the other hand you are basically giving your life over to the firm for at least the first few years and everything I've read about the culture says its' horrible. I know most biglaw firms deal in cases worth millions so I was wondering are there any midlaw firms that still deal in same type of cases as biglaw, but on a smaller scale. Say in the range of 100 of thousands as opposed to millions. I know they wouldn't pay as much, but the trade off for a better life/work balance might be worth the pay cut. Anyway, I was just curious.
Yes there are, but the firms that I've looked at in major cities have billable hour requirements that are either on par with or only marginally better than biglaw (maybe 100 hours less per year). The difference as an associate is that instead of getting paid $160k, you're getting paid $100k, for maybe two hours less work per year
Is there the same pressure to perform or being moved out in midlaw?
Re: Does midlaw exist?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:37 pm
by jwinaz
Elston Gunn wrote:From top schools, biglaw is much easier to get than midlaw. Midlaw does exist, but they're often not hiring entry level, and there certainly isn't the kind of organized process there is for big law hiring. Don't go to law school planning on making $100K while working 50-60 hours a week.
When you say there's no organized process of hiring, then would be be literally cold mailing these firms?
Re: Does midlaw exist?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:48 pm
by Tom Joad
Most of the firms I am trying to get into might be considered midlaw and they seem to be hiring SAs and fresh grads as best as I have seen. I just think it depends on where you are looking.
Re: Does midlaw exist?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:49 pm
by cinephile
ndirish2010 wrote:Those firms aren't "midlaw," they are "regional biglaw."
That's what I was thinking too.
Re: Does midlaw exist?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:50 pm
by jwinaz
Tom Joad wrote:Most of the firms I am trying to get into might be considered midlaw and they seem to be hiring SAs and fresh grads as best as I have seen. I just think it depends on where you are looking.
Roughly where are you located if you don't mind sharing?
And is there any advantage to having a degree from an ls in that region? Do thigns like T14 or regionality matter in midlaw hiring?
Re: Does midlaw exist?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:53 pm
by Tom Joad
jwinaz wrote:Tom Joad wrote:Most of the firms I am trying to get into might be considered midlaw and they seem to be hiring SAs and fresh grads as best as I have seen. I just think it depends on where you are looking.
Roughly where are you located if you don't mind sharing?
And is there any advantage to having a degree from an ls in that region? Do thigns like T14 or regionality matter in midlaw hiring?
I have been applying mostly to midwestern cities too small to have professional sports teams. If you read the bios most of the attorneys were on law review at the local school or went to a T30.