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I'm not a good student, just don't have the discipline/desire to seriously study more than a few hours per week. I skim the reading, and go to class, but my notes are shitty and useless, since I don't come in knowing the cases well and I zone out frequently. A few times per week I get determined and do some E&E's or read a hornbook for an hour, and that helps, but it's not much. It's a week until finals and I've bumped up my review to 3-4 hours a day, but I don't have a coherent grasp of any of my courses and will probably just end up using an outline that's 80-90% drawn from an upperclassmen's.

What % of students are like me? It seems like everyone is studying their asses off and pulling it together, based on conversations and in-class discussion. Just in terms of preparation, am I bottom 5%? 1%? 25%? I'm not looking for reassurance, I know I'm gonna do poorly, I just wonder if I'm headed for worst in class or just bottom quartile.


-ps Don't hate on me too much, me and my brethren are propping you up in the battle for jobs.

My guess is less than 10%

anon sequitur wrote:I'm not a good student, just don't have the discipline/desire to seriously study more than a few hours per week. I skim the reading, and go to class, but my notes are shitty and useless, since I don't come in knowing the cases well and I zone out frequently. A few times per week I get determined and do some E&E's or read a hornbook for an hour, and that helps, but it's not much. It's a week until finals and I've bumped up my review to 3-4 hours a day, but I don't have a coherent grasp of any of my courses and will probably just end up using an outline that's 80-90% drawn from an upperclassmen's.

What % of students are like me? It seems like everyone is studying their asses off and pulling it together, based on conversations and in-class discussion. Just in terms of preparation, am I bottom 5%? 1%? 25%? I'm not looking for reassurance, I know I'm gonna do poorly, I just wonder if I'm headed for worst in class or just bottom quartile.


-ps Don't hate on me too much, me and my brethren are propping you up in the battle for jobs.

Probably like 10%. More if you have more JD/MBAs.

Use the upperclass outlines. It's too late to make a good outline. And if you don't know the material yet, you probably cannot make a decent outline.

Stop trying to read cases, or EE's (unless you don't understand from the outline, then look at the EE).

You could probably get top 20ish if you just gun the outlines, learn how to take a test, and are naturally good at it. But if you go into those tests without having a decent grasp on the material, you'll get a B at best.

As a 1L? <10%, I would be worried if I were you. As a 3L with an offer? 75%.

Also, why would the proportion of JD/MBAs matter Desert Fox? In my experience many of the JD/MBAs excel, and there is no top school with more than a handful of them anyway.

Borg wrote:As a 1L? <10%, I would be worried if I were you. As a 3L with an offer? 75%.

Also, why would the proportion of JD/MBAs matter Desert Fox? In my experience many of the JD/MBAs excel, and there is no top school with more than a handful of them anyway.

In my experience they check the fuck out. Law Review > Clerkship gunners > regular > "I don't know what do with my life" > JD MBA > LLM > parents paying tution

Desert Fox wrote:

Borg wrote:As a 1L? <10%, I would be worried if I were you. As a 3L with an offer? 75%.

Also, why would the proportion of JD/MBAs matter Desert Fox? In my experience many of the JD/MBAs excel, and there is no top school with more than a handful of them anyway.

In my experience they check the fuck out. Law Review > Clerkship gunners > regular > "I don't know what do with my life" > JD MBA > LLM > parents paying tution

Well, I suppose you are wrong then. We check out later on after we get offers, but smart people with work experience + quant ability >>>>>> regular idiot law students. We get good grades 1L year, take yer jerbs, then go on vacation.

Borg wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:

Borg wrote:As a 1L? <10%, I would be worried if I were you. As a 3L with an offer? 75%.

Also, why would the proportion of JD/MBAs matter Desert Fox? In my experience many of the JD/MBAs excel, and there is no top school with more than a handful of them anyway.

In my experience they check the fuck out. Law Review > Clerkship gunners > regular > "I don't know what do with my life" > JD MBA > LLM > parents paying tution

Well, I suppose you are wrong then. We check out later on after we get offers, but smart people with work experience + quant ability >>>>>> regular idiot law students. We get good grades 1L year, take yer jerbs, then go on vacation.

You seem stupid bro.

I'm not saying you do worse in getting real jobs. I'm saying they aren't huge fucking gunners. They are chill and aren't aspie nerds. Then they go get good jobs based on their MBA because like you said "experience + quant ability."

But you seem like an aspie nerd, so good luck in those interviews bro.

Desert Fox wrote:

Borg wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:

Borg wrote:As a 1L? <10%, I would be worried if I were you. As a 3L with an offer? 75%.

Also, why would the proportion of JD/MBAs matter Desert Fox? In my experience many of the JD/MBAs excel, and there is no top school with more than a handful of them anyway.

In my experience they check the fuck out. Law Review > Clerkship gunners > regular > "I don't know what do with my life" > JD MBA > LLM > parents paying tution

Well, I suppose you are wrong then. We check out later on after we get offers, but smart people with work experience + quant ability >>>>>> regular idiot law students. We get good grades 1L year, take yer jerbs, then go on vacation.

You seem stupid bro.

I'm not saying you do worse in getting real jobs. I'm saying they aren't huge fucking gunners. They are chill and aren't aspie nerds. Then they go get good jobs based on their MBA because like you said "experience + quant ability."

But you seem like an aspie nerd, so good luck in those interviews bro.

No, not huge fucking gunners but also not checked out. Also, not sure why you're freaking out. Big talk about someone else being an aspie for a guy with thousands and thousands of posts on TLS who gets mad at strangers on the internet. Do you have a bowl of your tears that you use as lubricant while flipping back and forth between here and YouPorn all day?

Also, thanks for the good luck wishes but I think I already had enough of it between my biglaw and banking offers. Looking forward to telling you what to do one day.

Borg wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:

Borg wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:

In my experience they check the fuck out. Law Review > Clerkship gunners > regular > "I don't know what do with my life" > JD MBA > LLM > parents paying tution

Well, I suppose you are wrong then. We check out later on after we get offers, but smart people with work experience + quant ability >>>>>> regular idiot law students. We get good grades 1L year, take yer jerbs, then go on vacation.

You seem stupid bro.

I'm not saying you do worse in getting real jobs. I'm saying they aren't huge fucking gunners. They are chill and aren't aspie nerds. Then they go get good jobs based on their MBA because like you said "experience + quant ability."

But you seem like an aspie nerd, so good luck in those interviews bro.

No, not huge fucking gunners but also not checked out. Also, not sure why you're freaking out. Big talk about someone else being an aspie for a guy with thousands and thousands of posts on TLS who gets mad at strangers on the internet. Do you have a bowl of your tears that you use as lubricant while flipping back and forth between here and YouPorn all day?

Also, thanks for the good luck wishes but I think I already had enough of it between my biglaw and banking offers. Looking forward to telling you what to do one day.

You come across as extraordinarily immature for someone that is already in law school as a JD/MBA. You are probably going to be no one's boss in the future. People can't stand people like you, and Biglaw and i-banking are relationship businesses. But I am guessing you are actually an 0L, in which case you have time to get a better personality.

hume85 wrote:
You come across as extraordinarily immature for someone that is already in law school as a JD/MBA. You are probably going to be no one's boss in the future. People can't stand people like you, and Biglaw and i-banking are relationship businesses. But I am guessing you are actually an 0L, in which case you have time to get a better personality.

No bro, the Cadwalader guy a year behind me is TOTALLY going to boss the patent litigator around.

Desert Fox wrote:

hume85 wrote:
You come across as extraordinarily immature for someone that is already in law school as a JD/MBA. You are probably going to be no one's boss in the future. People can't stand people like you, and Biglaw and i-banking are relationship businesses. But I am guessing you are actually an 0L, in which case you have time to get a better personality.

No bro, the Cadwalader guy a year behind me is TOTALLY going to boss the patent litigator around.

I fucked up the quote. I was talking to Borg.

ETA: It has been fixed.

hume85 wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:

hume85 wrote:
You come across as extraordinarily immature for someone that is already in law school as a JD/MBA. You are probably going to be no one's boss in the future. People can't stand people like you, and Biglaw and i-banking are relationship businesses. But I am guessing you are actually an 0L, in which case you have time to get a better personality.

No bro, the Cadwalader guy a year behind me is TOTALLY going to boss the patent litigator around.

I fucked up the quote. I was talking to Borg.

ETA: It has been fixed.

Yea I know, I'm joking too

Desert Fox wrote:

hume85 wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:

hume85 wrote:
You come across as extraordinarily immature for someone that is already in law school as a JD/MBA. You are probably going to be no one's boss in the future. People can't stand people like you, and Biglaw and i-banking are relationship businesses. But I am guessing you are actually an 0L, in which case you have time to get a better personality.

No bro, the Cadwalader guy a year behind me is TOTALLY going to boss the patent litigator around.

I fucked up the quote. I was talking to Borg.

ETA: It has been fixed.

Yea I know, I'm joking too

Damn, I am an idiot for missing that: it is pretty clear you were joking.

Maybe 5%. Keep in mind not everyone who is as unprepared as you are knows they are unprepared; some people are so lacking in self-discipline that they can seem to be studying all the time and yet in reality get almost nothing done. Grade-wise, I wouldn't despair yet, because in addition to the unprepared people, there is a small number of people (in my experience) who are legitimately quite dim, and another very tragic group of people (in 1L) who are smart and hardworking but doing law school all wrong. In terms of effort thus far, you are probably close to bottom of the barrel, but with luck you might still be able to swing mediocre grades. If you are the type of person who can seriously cram and pull it out of your ass in the last few days before the exam, then the sky's the limit, but not everyone is that kind of person (I'm not, anyway).

anon sequitur wrote:I'm not a good student, just don't have the discipline/desire to seriously study more than a few hours per week. I skim the reading, and go to class, but my notes are shitty and useless, since I don't come in knowing the cases well and I zone out frequently. A few times per week I get determined and do some E&E's or read a hornbook for an hour, and that helps, but it's not much. It's a week until finals and I've bumped up my review to 3-4 hours a day, but I don't have a coherent grasp of any of my courses and will probably just end up using an outline that's 80-90% drawn from an upperclassmen's.

What % of students are like me? It seems like everyone is studying their asses off and pulling it together, based on conversations and in-class discussion. Just in terms of preparation, am I bottom 5%? 1%? 25%? I'm not looking for reassurance, I know I'm gonna do poorly, I just wonder if I'm headed for worst in class or just bottom quartile.


-ps Don't hate on me too much, me and my brethren are propping you up in the battle for jobs.

I'm not at a T14, but I'm exactly the same way. I'm at a T2, and I think there are about 10% of us maybe. But I did the same thing last year as a 1L and pulled bottom quartile grades, but didn't fail out, which is key with a no-stip, large scholarship

Nothing is lost if you "get" how to write a school exam, and you are willing to study like crazy in the next few days.
I would say that about a 1/3 of my class does not study heavily during the year, but work very hard on the last 3-4 weeks. I do not think that 1/3 has worse grades than the 2/3 who "work" all semester long.

Ended up slightly below median. Not a great place to be, but I'm content. I guess a huge chunk of the class is just really inefficient or get so stressed they can't perform.

For anyone else in the future finding themselves in the same situation, I'll repeat the advice that I found helpful: just go to the outline bank, download all the outlines, try to read them all and colate them into a coherent whole that represents your best understanding of the material; use supplements sparingly, just to understand concepts that you really don't understand. On exams, don't be tentative, act as though you're writing an A+ paper.

Or, just actually study a reasonable amount during the semester.

anon sequitur wrote:Ended up slightly below median. Not a great place to be, but I'm content. I guess a huge chunk of the class is just really inefficient or get so stressed they can't perform.

For anyone else in the future finding themselves in the same situation, I'll repeat the advice that I found helpful: just go to the outline bank, download all the outlines, try to read them all and colate them into a coherent whole that represents your best understanding of the material; use supplements sparingly, just to understand concepts that you really don't understand. On exams, don't be tentative, act as though you're writing an A+ paper.

Or, just actually study a reasonable amount during the semester.

Good job.

anon sequitur wrote:I'm not a good student, just don't have the discipline/desire to seriously study more than a few hours per week. I skim the reading, and go to class, but my notes are shitty and useless, since I don't come in knowing the cases well and I zone out frequently. A few times per week I get determined and do some E&E's or read a hornbook for an hour, and that helps, but it's not much. It's a week until finals and I've bumped up my review to 3-4 hours a day, but I don't have a coherent grasp of any of my courses and will probably just end up using an outline that's 80-90% drawn from an upperclassmen's.

What % of students are like me? It seems like everyone is studying their asses off and pulling it together, based on conversations and in-class discussion. Just in terms of preparation, am I bottom 5%? 1%? 25%? I'm not looking for reassurance, I know I'm gonna do poorly, I just wonder if I'm headed for worst in class or just bottom quartile.


-ps Don't hate on me too much, me and my brethren are propping you up in the battle for jobs.

OP, did you come from a rich family? No concerns about loans and jobs?

anon sequitur wrote:I'm not a good student, just don't have the discipline/desire to seriously study more than a few hours per week. I skim the reading, and go to class, but my notes are shitty and useless, since I don't come in knowing the cases well and I zone out frequently. A few times per week I get determined and do some E&E's or read a hornbook for an hour, and that helps, but it's not much. It's a week until finals and I've bumped up my review to 3-4 hours a day, but I don't have a coherent grasp of any of my courses and will probably just end up using an outline that's 80-90% drawn from an upperclassmen's.

What % of students are like me? It seems like everyone is studying their asses off and pulling it together, based on conversations and in-class discussion. Just in terms of preparation, am I bottom 5%? 1%? 25%? I'm not looking for reassurance, I know I'm gonna do poorly, I just wonder if I'm headed for worst in class or just bottom quartile.


-ps Don't hate on me too much, me and my brethren are propping you up in the battle for jobs.

What happened to the motivation that got you into a T14?

OP, did you come from a rich family? No concerns about loans and jobs?

No, just good luck with scholarship money and savings from previous jobs means my debt load won't be terrible no matter what. I am concerned about jobs, but know that in the worst case I can go back to my old career, which was viable, just sub-optimal.

LaBarrister wrote:What happened to the motivation that got you into a T14?

I've never had a highly motivated type A personality. I did fine in college, but law school is harder; LSAT was perfectly suited to me, so it probably overstated my law school ability.

Speaking as another crappy student by natural inclination...either overcome it or you will have issues. There aren't many of us and it does hurt.

For reference, I floated through UG and ended up with an engineering degree and latin honors. What worked fine back then does not work here.

rinkrat19 wrote:Speaking as another crappy student by natural inclination...either overcome it or you will have issues. There aren't many of us and it does hurt.

For reference, I floated through UG and ended up with an engineering degree and latin honors. What worked fine back then does not work here.

Going for patent law, rink?

jwinaz wrote:

rinkrat19 wrote:Speaking as another crappy student by natural inclination...either overcome it or you will have issues. There aren't many of us and it does hurt.

For reference, I floated through UG and ended up with an engineering degree and latin honors. What worked fine back then does not work here.

Going for patent law, rink?

Don't know yet. Not opposed to it, but not set on it.

anon sequitur wrote:

OP, did you come from a rich family? No concerns about loans and jobs?

No, just good luck with scholarship money and savings from previous jobs means my debt load won't be terrible no matter what. I am concerned about jobs, but know that in the worst case I can go back to my old career, which was viable, just sub-optimal.

LaBarrister wrote:What happened to the motivation that got you into a T14?

I've never had a highly motivated type A personality. I did fine in college, but law school is harder; LSAT was perfectly suited to me, so it probably overstated my law school ability.

What about law school seems harder or not as suited to you? Workload or the content of stuff you study? Always good to have a back-up career I imagine. Less potential psychologicla stress of a sort of all one's eggs in a single basket.