OSU 1L Taking Questions Forum

[avid_listener]

Feel free to ask me anything about the school. I am very candid.

[lookingin]

Are you in-state or out-of-state? How hard is it to get in-state residency for tuition purposes at OSU after 1L? Do you know of anyone who has done this if you are in-state? Thanks in advance!

[jms1987]

How are employment prospects looking for graduates as of now? I'm a lifelong Ohioan considering OSU if I decide to stay here.

[TTH]

How are employment prospects looking for graduates as of now? I'm a lifelong Ohioan considering OSU if I decide to stay here.

<--- OSU 3L

Employment prospects aren't great, but they are marginally improving. I know plenty of people with good credentials (top 20% and above, LR, Moot Court) who are struggling to find a job. If you want to work in Columbus or Cleveland or another Ohio city that's not Cincinnati, then Moritz will always open doors into those cities. However, if you get into a T14, take the T14 over Moritz even if you want to come back here afterwards, unless you're coming to Moritz for free or nearly free. If you want to work in Cincinnati, UC places at the Cincy firms much, much better than OSU does.

Are you in-state or out-of-state? How hard is it to get in-state residency for tuition purposes at OSU after 1L? Do you know of anyone who has done this if you are in-state? Thanks in advance!

In-state is pretty easy to get after your first-year. You just need to be careful about your expenses. If you accept a bunch of money from an out-of-state family member or something, it will screw up your residency petition. The law school has its own dedicated financial aid staffer who does a really good job of navigating out-of-state 1Ls through the residency process.

[rbomb]

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[jms1987]

How are employment prospects looking for graduates as of now? I'm a lifelong Ohioan considering OSU if I decide to stay here.

<--- OSU 3L

Employment prospects aren't great, but they are marginally improving. I know plenty of people with good credentials (top 20% and above, LR, Moot Court) who are struggling to find a job. If you want to work in Columbus or Cleveland or another Ohio city that's not Cincinnati, then Moritz will always open doors into those cities. However, if you get into a T14, take the T14 over Moritz even if you want to come back here afterwards, unless you're coming to Moritz for free or nearly free. If you want to work in Cincinnati, UC places at the Cincy firms much, much better than OSU does.

Are you in-state or out-of-state? How hard is it to get in-state residency for tuition purposes at OSU after 1L? Do you know of anyone who has done this if you are in-state? Thanks in advance!

In-state is pretty easy to get after your first-year. You just need to be careful about your expenses. If you accept a bunch of money from an out-of-state family member or something, it will screw up your residency petition. The law school has its own dedicated financial aid staffer who does a really good job of navigating out-of-state 1Ls through the residency process.

Dang, that is a bit frustrating to hear about Cincy placement (UC undergrad here) and placement in general. From what you've seen, what schools do people who get Cleveland/Columbus biglaw go to?

[TTH]

@TTH have you heard of any placement in Indianapolis, Lexington, or Pitt?

That is a huge letdown about Cincy firm placement...I had dreams of getting Reds season tickets.

I know a handful of my classmates are going to Indy firms, but I'm pretty sure all of them are from Indy. At OCI (which was down my year, OCI for c/o 2014 might've been stronger), we didn't have any Indy firms there. There were some Ohio firms with offices in Indy, but places like Baker & Daniels, Barnes and Thornburg, and Ice Miller didn't interview with us.

Sort of similar with Lexington. A lot of firms, particularly Cincy firms, have offices in Lexington and Louisville. The only firm that is "from" Kentucky that came to OCI my year was Greenebaum.

I don't know anyone going to Pittsburgh after graduation. One Pittsburgh firm came to OCI (Thorp Reed), and K&L Gates did a resume collect. However, we've got a fair amount of alumni in Pittsburgh law firms, so I think you'd could get there if you had ties and put in the work.

And you can still get to Cincy from Moritz. It's just harder to do so than from UC. Once you get here, the oft-repeated line is that Cincinnati firms only like to hire people from Cincinnati. (i.e., "When a Cincinnati interviewer asks you what school you went to, they mean what high school.")

Dang, that is a bit frustrating to hear about Cincy placement (UC undergrad here) and placement in general. From what you've seen, what schools do people who get Cleveland/Columbus biglaw go to?

It's a mix. Almost every firm in Columbus or Cleveland come to OCI and have a Moritz grad in their class. Beyond that, you'll see Case students, Capital students, and Cleveland-Marshall student depending on the firm. A few firms (JD, Squire, Vorys, Porter Wright) really like to grab a T14 kid when they can. And of course, goddamned Notre Dame always has a few people kicking around.

The overall problem with placement at Moritz, at least with my year, is still ITE. Ohio firms really cut back class sizes and they haven't really crept back up significantly.

[Lwoods]

<--OSU 2L. (Not sure where OP went, but TTH is a pretty good authority for all things OSU).

@TTH have you heard of any placement in Indianapolis, Lexington, or Pitt?

That is a huge letdown about Cincy firm placement...I had dreams of getting Reds season tickets.

I know a handful of my classmates are going to Indy firms, but I'm pretty sure all of them are from Indy. At OCI (which was down my year, OCI for c/o 2014 might've been stronger), we didn't have any Indy firms there. There were some Ohio firms with offices in Indy, but places like Baker & Daniels, Barnes and Thornburg, and Ice Miller didn't interview with us.

Sort of similar with Lexington. A lot of firms, particularly Cincy firms, have offices in Lexington and Louisville. The only firm that is "from" Kentucky that came to OCI my year was Greenebaum.

I don't know anyone going to Pittsburgh after graduation. One Pittsburgh firm came to OCI (Thorp Reed), and K&L Gates did a resume collect. However, we've got a fair amount of alumni in Pittsburgh law firms, so I think you'd could get there if you had ties and put in the work.

And you can still get to Cincy from Moritz. It's just harder to do so than from UC. Once you get here, the oft-repeated line is that Cincinnati firms only like to hire people from Cincinnati. (i.e., "When a Cincinnati interviewer asks you what school you went to, they mean what high school.")

I only did early OCI, so I'm not sure what the offerings were at the later OCI. For my year, there were a couple law firm mergers that meant both Ice Miller and Bingham Greenebaum Doll now have Indy offices and were at Early OCI. However, I think both were still just looking for their Ohio and Kentucky offices, respectively (though Ice Miller CBs were in Indy). As the mergers settle a little, you might be able to express an interest in the Indy offices of those firms. Check with OCS because they'll have the scoop.

I have a friend who had a Pittsburgh offer through OCI. She's not from Ohio, didn't have a specific city preference, and has no ties to Pittsburgh. However, she decided to stay at her 1L SA firm after she negotiated a special perk she wanted.

I think a lot of firms still look at ties because they've been burned before. They don't want to spend the money on training you as an SA just to have you leave for a firm in your hometown. The way I handled this was to point out that I left my hometown a decade ago and that there are no good legal jobs there. It was a little more difficult to convince employers I wouldn't be heading back to the city where I did undergrad because, well, I might want to go back there, but I had some reasons for that, too.

I think the key really is to apply to every single firm for early OCI and go from there, particularly if you're not too particular for a particular market. Have reasons why you don't want your hometown or any other city you've lived in. Have good reasons for wanting Columbus when applying to Columbus firms.
If you're from out of state, put ONLY your Columbus address for Columbus / Ohio firms. For applications to firms in your home state, put your parent's address on your resume as well.

If you do want a specific market, target it next summer (as soon as you find our which journal you're on). Go there; have dates that you'll be there when you send out cover letters. Take advantage of the $100 travel stipend OCS gives you (there's paperwork to do beforehand). Find OSU Law alumni in that city and set up meetings (the offer I've accepted for next summer came from an "informational interview").

Dang, that is a bit frustrating to hear about Cincy placement (UC undergrad here) and placement in general. From what you've seen, what schools do people who get Cleveland/Columbus biglaw go to?

It's a mix. Almost every firm in Columbus or Cleveland come to OCI and have a Moritz grad in their class. Beyond that, you'll see Case students, Capital students, and Cleveland-Marshall student depending on the firm. A few firms (JD, Squire, Vorys, Porter Wright) really like to grab a T14 kid when they can. And of course, goddamned Notre Dame always has a few people kicking around.

The overall problem with placement at Moritz, at least with my year, is still ITE. Ohio firms really cut back class sizes and they haven't really crept back up significantly.

Definitely. And this is the case with all of the midwestern cities, really (except Chicago). Classes are small, so it's tricky to get in there, and they only look at the tip-top of the class. I would caution you, though, when you're looking at the employment stats of Ohio State to understand the difference between "10%" in [the best jobs] and "only top 10%" in those jobs. There are grade requirements, but other things help, too. I benefited from my work experience. My friend who got the Pitt offer probably benefited from her master's degree. Interviewing skills make a huge difference. Being on OSLJ (as a write-on) can give you a good bump in the later stages of OCI and on the road. Understand your assets and sell those.

Good luck on exams, 1Ls!

[rbomb]

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[TTH]

Upperclassmen, thank you so so so much for the help.

Good luck on all your finals.

Who needs luck? I'm a 3L. I have apathy.

(Thanks, let us know if y'all have any other questions)

[havanese11]

Recently accepted to OSU and Cincy. I am not from Ohio and have never been to Columbus or Cincy (I'm from out west). I have been offered a scholarship for Cincy that would put tuition at ~10K/yr and my wife can help me get in state tuition from day one at OSU. OSU is the highest ranked school I've gotten into so far and T14 is not realistic for me. My background is science and I'm considering intellectual property but I'm open to other areas of law. I don't have plans to return to my home state after law school, I just want to network and get a really good job with what opportunities are best available for graduates from the school I choose. Does Ohio State open up more doors than Cincy would? Would you recommend OSU for someone like me? Any advice is appreciated
Thanks

[Lwoods]

Recently accepted to OSU and Cincy. I am not from Ohio and have never been to Columbus or Cincy (I'm from out west). I have been offered a scholarship for Cincy that would put tuition at ~10K/yr and my wife can help me get in state tuition from day one at OSU. OSU is the highest ranked school I've gotten into so far and T14 is not realistic for me. My background is science and I'm considering intellectual property but I'm open to other areas of law. I don't have plans to return to my home state after law school, I just want to network and get a really good job with what opportunities are best available for graduates from the school I choose. Does Ohio State open up more doors than Cincy would? Would you recommend OSU for someone like me? Any advice is appreciated
Thanks

OSU will open more doors. Cinci only opens doors in Cinci, and I'm not even sure it does that if you're not from there. Columbus is less provincial, and if your wife has a job here and you have a reason why you're not trying to go back to your hometown, that will be sufficient for ties for many [most?] employers, unless your grades are borderline.

In general, applicants with an IP background have a much easier time securing employment. I'm not sure what the IP market is like in Ohio...the big companies in Columbus are insurance, healthcare, banking, and retail, though...I don't want to speculate beyond that.

The big benefits to OSU are that it's the best school in the state, and it's located in a real city. Very few schools outside of the T14 meet both of those criteria. You will still be competing against T14 students in Columbus, though, and the top students from whatever local school in other markets. Outside of job placement, I really think OSU has a disproportionate number of good teachers on faculty. I've found, too, that it's easy to stand out, if you'd like.

In your case, I'd definitely say OSU over Cinci. I'd only recommend UC to a Cincinnati native who wants to live there forever. When comparing OSU to other T1 schools, I'd look at:
*The size of the city (are there jobs there you'd want; could your wife find a job there?)
*How many other law schools are in the region, and how do they compare?
*After visiting the city, could you see yourself living there in the long run? Think about your hobbies, whether or not you'd like to own a home, etc.
*Cost (in your case balanced against your wife's potential salary)
Good luck with your decision, and congrats again!

[2014jd]

Recently accepted to OSU and Cincy. I am not from Ohio and have never been to Columbus or Cincy (I'm from out west). I have been offered a scholarship for Cincy that would put tuition at ~10K/yr and my wife can help me get in state tuition from day one at OSU. OSU is the highest ranked school I've gotten into so far and T14 is not realistic for me. My background is science and I'm considering intellectual property but I'm open to other areas of law. I don't have plans to return to my home state after law school, I just want to network and get a really good job with what opportunities are best available for graduates from the school I choose. Does Ohio State open up more doors than Cincy would? Would you recommend OSU for someone like me? Any advice is appreciated
Thanks

Does the bolded mean that your wife has a job here? If yes, I think that will help you be able to sell your reasons for wanting to stay in Ohio/work in Ohio after graduation. Without ties to an area, it can be a little extra difficult to get a job in this economy. Lwoods can certainly speak to this better than I can, and I agree with everything she said, but do keep the ties issue in mind.

Outside of that, OSU is a fine place. Fine teachers. Fine building. Could use some improvements in both of these areas. Columbus is a great city. Much underrated. I'd recommend visiting if you can. And see if you can speak with a current student. Off the top of my head I can think of a few people on the IP track from out of state that might be able to give you some insight.


On an unrelated note, I have to ask about your username. Do you have a havanese dog?

[havanese11]

Does the bolded mean that your wife has a job here? If yes, I think that will help you be able to sell your reasons for wanting to stay in Ohio/work in Ohio after graduation. Without ties to an area, it can be a little extra difficult to get a job in this economy. Lwoods can certainly speak to this better than I can, and I agree with everything she said, but do keep the ties issue in mind.

Outside of that, OSU is a fine place. Fine teachers. Fine building. Could use some improvements in both of these areas. Columbus is a great city. Much underrated. I'd recommend visiting if you can. And see if you can speak with a current student. Off the top of my head I can think of a few people on the IP track from out of state that might be able to give you some insight.


On an unrelated note, I have to ask about your username. Do you have a havanese dog?[/quote]

My wife doesn't have one in Ohio but could easily get one in time so that I could be considered in-state for the full three years. I hadn't considered that her having a job could also help solidify my case that I would want to work in Ohio after graduation, that seems like a decent approach. Obviously the stronger ties I can develop while I'm out there the better.
I'll be attending one of the visitation program dates to check out the campus/city so I'll probably do that when I come out.
And I sure do have a havanese Thanks for your suggestions

[2014jd]

And I sure do have a havanese Thanks for your suggestions

So do I. Love this breed.

[TTH]

Recently accepted to OSU and Cincy. I am not from Ohio and have never been to Columbus or Cincy (I'm from out west). I have been offered a scholarship for Cincy that would put tuition at ~10K/yr and my wife can help me get in state tuition from day one at OSU. OSU is the highest ranked school I've gotten into so far and T14 is not realistic for me. My background is science and I'm considering intellectual property but I'm open to other areas of law. I don't have plans to return to my home state after law school, I just want to network and get a really good job with what opportunities are best available for graduates from the school I choose. Does Ohio State open up more doors than Cincy would? Would you recommend OSU for someone like me? Any advice is appreciated
Thanks

Does the bolded mean that your wife has a job here? If yes, I think that will help you be able to sell your reasons for wanting to stay in Ohio/work in Ohio after graduation. Without ties to an area, it can be a little extra difficult to get a job in this economy. Lwoods can certainly speak to this better than I can, and I agree with everything she said, but do keep the ties issue in mind.

Outside of that, OSU is a fine place. Fine teachers. Fine building. Could use some improvements in both of these areas. Columbus is a great city. Much underrated. I'd recommend visiting if you can. And see if you can speak with a current student. Off the top of my head I can think of a few people on the IP track from out of state that might be able to give you some insight.


On an unrelated note, I have to ask about your username. Do you have a havanese dog?

FYI: The bolded is an absolute lie.

As best as I know, OSU is not an outstanding school for IP. I don't know that it's a bad school, but IP is just not a focus here. I think there's usually only two or three IP classes per year (including soft IP as well as patent stuff), and they are typically taught by adjuncts. The good news is that one of the adjuncts who teaches patents (maybe the only one that teaches patents) is a bona fide baller in Ohio, so there's that.

As far as Ohio IP markets, there's a little IP work in Columbus and but I think Cincinnati is the biggest IP market in the state (just a hunch).

Congrats on your admits. OSU's a fine school, but I would not take on significantly more debt for OSU than Cincinnati.

[havanese11]

Thanks for the advice so far. I was offered a leadership scholarship from OSU for $12,500 a yr this week which I am very happy about! Not to be greedy but I was wondering if people have had luck negotiating scholarship amounts from OSU in the past? If so is it easier to negotiate with scholarship amounts from other ohio schools or similarly ranked schools? I'm definitely leaning towards OSU after this but obviously negotiating more would not only make my decisions easier but would help financially as well. On a side note if anyone is aware of what impact this might have on my application for the moritz merit scholarship I would appreciate it. I am working on my application but when I received this leadership scholarship I didn't know if that means my chances for the merit are worse/better etc. I think the merit scholarship is worth more than the leadership offer I was given so I figured it couldn't hurt to still apply. Thanks

[lookingin]

Not to be greedy but I was wondering if people have had luck negotiating scholarship amounts from OSU in the past? If so is it easier to negotiate with scholarship amounts from other ohio schools or similarly ranked schools? I'm definitely leaning towards OSU after this but obviously negotiating more would not only make my decisions easier but would help financially as well. On a side note if anyone is aware of what impact this might have on my application for the moritz merit scholarship I would appreciate it. I am working on my application but when I received this leadership scholarship I didn't know if that means my chances for the merit are

I applied for the Moritz Merit Scholarship and just received a leadership award this week too. I was also going to ask if they would revise their offers later (after the Moritz Merit applications are due) if they decide to grant those scholarships to someone they have already extended another offer to... so I'm looking forward to this being answered too!

And unfortunately I don't think OSU negotiates at all In fact, I toured there recently and asked an admissions woman that question and she pretty much said they hate receiving those requests for more aid, and that what they offer you is what you get :/ I also went through some of the old "scholarship negotiation" threads (some of them are really old, you have to go a ways back to find them in the forums) and some past posters pretty much affirmed that...

[Lwoods]

Re negotiating aid: There is a different dean for aid than admissions, and I had absolutely no luck negotiating with my higher offers from Illinois and Indiana. HOWEVER, you might as well try. You have nothing to lose, and I think a couple people who got really high grades 1L year got retention scholarships.

[rbomb]

.

[Lwoods]

Re negotiating aid: There is a different dean for aid than admissions, and I had absolutely no luck negotiating with my higher offers from Illinois and Indiana. HOWEVER, you might as well try. You have nothing to lose, and I think a couple people who got really high grades 1L year got retention scholarships.

I was going to try to renegotiate my scholarship (out of state tuition is a beast, even with a current scholarship). I've heard that to be successful, you need an in-hand transfer acceptance to a higher ranked school for OSU to consider. Is there any truth to this? Those few that you know who were successful, did they apply to transfer?

The stories I've heard second hand were of individuals who had transfer acceptances to other schools.

I do have another friend who was offered more money without applying for a transfer. That may be a special case, though, because s/he was not only top 10% after 1L year but was also awarded a much lower scholarship than his/her admissions statistics should have warranted.

Talk to Marc to see what you need to do to get in-state tuition for next year. That should be easier than getting more scholarship money.

[majnana]

Someone on this thread mentioned those "goddamned students from Notre Dame". Can anyone give me some feedback on how Notre Dame places in Columbus? I'm at a point where I'm looking at Notre Dame with half-scholly versus OSU with 12/K a year (however, their tuition is so much less to start with). I'm worried about the higher cost of living in Columbus, and it also looks like my husband would have an easier time finding work in South Bend around Notre Dame (he's a diesel mechanic, and there are a lot of job openings in the area) than in Columbus. We have five kids (yes, five) so we'd have to have a house or a very large apartment, so rent in a city would be considerably more than in a rural area.

I've spent significant time trolling TLS, going through LST's website, and through the websites of the schools themselves looking at employment information but I'm still stressed about the choice. Plus, Notre Dame does not seem to be transparent about their graduates' salary information. I would be perfectly happy to work in a city like Columbus after graduation. It would be nice to move my family for law school and then not have to uproot our kids again in three years (of course, assuming I find employment in Columbus after graduating from OSU). But as for the three years of law school, it looks like our living costs would be lower in South Bend. The question is, would graduation prospects be better in a secondary market (such as Columbus) if I went to school at ND or if I went to the best state/regional school (in this instance, OSU)?

It probably isn't my most suave move to ask this in an obvious OSU thread, but could current OSU students weigh in on whether Notre Dame students are looked at favorably by Columbus employers? (Assuming no previous ties to Columbus.)

[TTH]

Someone on this thread mentioned those "goddamned students from Notre Dame". Can anyone give me some feedback on how Notre Dame places in Columbus? I'm at a point where I'm looking at Notre Dame with half-scholly versus OSU with 12/K a year (however, their tuition is so much less to start with). I'm worried about the higher cost of living in Columbus, and it also looks like my husband would have an easier time finding work in South Bend around Notre Dame (he's a diesel mechanic, and there are a lot of job openings in the area) than in Columbus. We have five kids (yes, five) so we'd have to have a house or a very large apartment, so rent in a city would be considerably more than in a rural area.

I've spent significant time trolling TLS, going through LST's website, and through the websites of the schools themselves looking at employment information but I'm still stressed about the choice. Plus, Notre Dame does not seem to be transparent about their graduates' salary information. I would be perfectly happy to work in a city like Columbus after graduation. It would be nice to move my family for law school and then not have to uproot our kids again in three years (of course, assuming I find employment in Columbus after graduating from OSU). But as for the three years of law school, it looks like our living costs would be lower in South Bend. The question is, would graduation prospects be better in a secondary market (such as Columbus) if I went to school at ND or if I went to the best state/regional school (in this instance, OSU)?

It probably isn't my most suave move to ask this in an obvious OSU thread, but could current OSU students weigh in on whether Notre Dame students are looked at favorably by Columbus employers? (Assuming no previous ties to Columbus.)

Notre Dame (UG and Law) have enough alumni in the area that you would be able to make connections. I don't know how much your total debt load would be at ND versus OSU, but I'm guessing with the OSU scholly you got that you would probably wind up borrowing around 100k to come here, if you borrowed COL money.

If that's the case, I think Notre Dame would probably be the better choice, unless your total debt load at ND would be significantly higher. Notre Dame is going to give you more opportunities in more markets than will OSU.

[walkthegoose]

Hey does anybody here have a criminal procedure or administration of criminal justice exam from the exam database that they would be willing to send to me? I'm from another university and our professor is teaching this course for the first time and does not have any old exams on file. We are using the DRessler book, and I knew he teaches there so I thought I would ask. Thanks!