Page 1 of 2

4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:01 am
by jbell
I've been lurking around for quite a while and tls definitely gave me some good advice while I was going through school. I've got some down time and I hope I can prove to be of some use.

Brief Background:

I had a 3.85 UGPA. 180 LSAT. Some interesting softs as well. Started at a fourth tier school but did get into one of HYS. made my decision for geography reasons. (wanted to be close to my wife until she finished her stuff). After my first year, opportunities presented itself, and I was top 1 percent so I transferred to a lower t14. I was on a secondary journal. Executive Board. 1 article published. 4.0 GPA. V20 SA. am now doing COA clerkship.

Ask away.

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:08 am
by Richie Tenenbaum
I'm curious if your LSAT score has come up in any context besides for transfer apps. (E.g., I was surprised when I saw that a few COA judges requested LSAT scores.) It usually seems like a major mistake in most any interview setting to bring up something like LSAT score. Your situation is a little different, so I'm curious if you mentioned your score or getting accepted to HYS in any of your firm interviews or clerkship interviews.

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:11 am
by dextermorgan
Why did you fuck up so bad?

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:13 am
by alwayssunnyinfl
..?

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:26 am
by ksllaw
Congratulations on your grades, transfer, and clerkship. :D

Curious to know your undergraduate degree(s) and also why you made the decision to attend a tier 4 school? Were there other local law schools besides the tier 4 one?

And would you ever recommend anyone taking your particular path? Thanks and best of luck to you in your career!

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:30 am
by jbell
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:I'm curious if your LSAT score has come up in any context besides for transfer apps. (E.g., I was surprised when I saw that a few COA judges requested LSAT scores.) It usually seems like a major mistake in most any interview setting to bring up something like LSAT score. Your situation is a little different, so I'm curious if you mentioned your score or getting accepted to HYS in any of your firm interviews or clerkship interviews.
Aside from discussing it with my profs for lor's I never brought it up. I think I brought it up once in an interview for 2l sa. It was going terribly and I thought the interviewer was ridiculously rude. I think he went to NYU and he was a younger fellow and he made some irritating quip about studying a little more for the LSAT to avoid the "transfer problem" on my resume and I got kind of mad. Obviously, I didn't get past the screening stage.

In sum,

No. Never discussed.

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:36 am
by jbell
ksllaw wrote:Congratulations on your grades, transfer, and clerkship. :D

Curious to know your undergraduate degree(s) and also why you made the decision to attend a tier 4 school? Were there other local law schools besides the tier 4 one?

And would you ever recommend anyone taking your particular path? Thanks and best of luck to you in your career!
My undergrad degree was in English and Physics.

There was a lower tier 1 school in the same city but after total scholarships it would've cost me about 40k more in the first year and 120k overall if I hadn't transferred so I went with the lower ranked one instead.

Eh, I probably wouldn't recommend the path for anyone. It depends what you want I suppose. There are definitely some doors that are still shut to me that might not have been had I made different choices. Plus, I imagine many more doors would still be shut had I not transferred. However, I got to be with my wife. At the time, it seemed that at the minimum we would be apart for four years. 3 for school, 1 for clerkship, and then who knows. I didn't want that. Turns out, that we would have rejoined after a year. Ha, I didn't know that at the time though.

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:42 am
by Richie Tenenbaum
Thanks for the earlier response!

In your opinion, do COA clerkship applicants who have done a federal district court clerkship receive a boost in comparison to rising 3L with similar numbers from a similar school? If so, any idea on how typically helpful that boost is?

Thoughts on what path is best if a person is shooting to do both district and COA? Would it be strange to do a district court clerkship, then work for 2-3 years, then apply for a COA clerkship? Is it better to simply try to do: district court --> COA --> work?

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:51 am
by jbell
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:Thanks for the earlier response!

In your opinion, do COA clerkship applicants who have done a federal district court clerkship receive a boost in comparison to rising 3L with similar numbers from a similar school? If so, any idea on how typically helpful that boost is?

Thoughts on what path is best if a person is shooting to do both district and COA? Would it be strange to do a district court clerkship, then work for 2-3 years, then apply for a COA clerkship? Is it better to simply try to do: district court --> COA --> work?
I'm not really sure. I don't have any experience with this but I will hazard a guess. I would imagine that evaluating similar applicants the one having done a district court clerkship first would have the advantage in the form of additional experience and a recommendation from the district court judge. I imagine that it would only help, but I am not sure how big of a boost this would be. I doubt you would be able to get a COA clerkship after the district court clerkship unless you would have been somewhat competitive in the first place.

Also, I personally would probably do the clerkships back to back. However, this may just be a personal choice. I don't suppose there is a major advantage or disadvantage aside from the potential drawback of having to take a year from whatever you were doing 2 to 3 years out to do the clerkship.

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:42 pm
by Hutz_and_Goodman
general "wisdom" on TLS is that there is no relationship between GPA/LSAT and law school grades. do you agree with this, and would you say your classmates at the fourth tier school had as good a chance as you to be top of the class?

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:53 pm
by 3ThrowAway99
lolwut

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:02 pm
by somewhatwayward
Um, can we say flame?

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:04 pm
by jbell
Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:general "wisdom" on TLS is that there is no relationship between GPA/LSAT and law school grades. do you agree with this, and would you say your classmates at the fourth tier school had as good a chance as you to be top of the class?
In my opinion I would say there is a correlation between GPA/LSAT and law school grades. However, I don't think it is necessarily a particularly strong one. As for your second question, I'm not sure how to answer this. Some of my classmates at my old school did very well and some of my classmates at my new school definitely were just trying to get by. I think it depends?

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:16 pm
by Hutz_and_Goodman
jbell wrote:
Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:general "wisdom" on TLS is that there is no relationship between GPA/LSAT and law school grades. do you agree with this, and would you say your classmates at the fourth tier school had as good a chance as you to be top of the class?
In my opinion I would say there is a correlation between GPA/LSAT and law school grades. However, I don't think it is necessarily a particularly strong one. As for your second question, I'm not sure how to answer this. Some of my classmates at my old school did very well and some of my classmates at my new school definitely were just trying to get by. I think it depends?
ok, confirmed flame

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:28 pm
by ksllaw
somewhatwayward wrote:Um, can we say flame?

What is the meaning of "flame" guys?

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:29 pm
by smaug_
ksllaw wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote:Um, can we say flame?

What is the meaning of "flame" guys?
You are normally the most skillful troll on these forums.

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:31 pm
by ksllaw
hibiki wrote:
ksllaw wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote:Um, can we say flame?

What is the meaning of "flame" guys?
You are normally the most skillful troll on these forums.

Wait, are you talking about me? Or are you defining what flame means? lol....couldn't tell.

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:33 pm
by alwayssunnyinfl
I was going to link the Urbandictionary definition of flame, but it's actually a little off from what TLS uses it for.

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:05 pm
by bk1
somewhatwayward wrote:Um, can we say flame?
I know for a fact that there are people with T14+scholly numbers who have gone to T4s.

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:18 pm
by jbell
For what it's worth I am not a flame. Although, if I was a flame I would probably say the same thing. Nevertheless, the point of this thread is for people who may want to ask questions and hopefully I can be able to answer some of them. If you think this is a flame then just don't bother posting. I don't want this thread to be derailed into a "he is a flame, no he isn't thread,"

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:03 pm
by Gorki
How different is the attitude of individual students and culture of the school as a whole from what you experienced last year?

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:20 pm
by KindleNexusfan
.

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:36 pm
by jbell
KindleNexusfan wrote:what did you publish? / when
A student note in my secondary journal. end of 2l.
Gorki wrote:How different is the attitude of individual students and culture of the school as a whole from what you experienced last year?
I assume by last year you meant my 1l school? I would say that both schools were friendly and not very gunnerish. I think there might have been more of a focus my 1l year by the students but that may just be the nature of 1l year vs upper level years.

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:00 am
by quiver
Well if this isn't a flame...

How did you land your COA clerkship? Did you apply broadly and just get it on your stats? Did you have professors make calls? How much do you think being published helped?

Re: 4.0 transfer/ Lower T14/ current COA clerk taking questions

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:05 am
by 3ThrowAway99
bk187 wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote:Um, can we say flame?
I know for a fact that there are people with T14+scholly HYS acceptances numbers who have gone to T4s.
:?:

Still probably happens occasionally, but I would guess is very rare. It is more the language that makes me say lol... just came off as stilted to me (an odd thread title/intro).

But the numbers in themselves --> TTTT are at best suspect IMO. 3.85/180 --> TTTT. Ouch. And that means he transferred to T14 without getting scholly, when he could have been at HYS. But if not flame it sounds like it ended up working out for him at least.