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Anybody know what sort of grades an NYU student needs for the firms that are the tippy-top of selectivity? I'm talking Wachtell, W&C, Cravath, Munger, Susman, not Weil or Skadden or STB or DPW. Obviously over 3.6, but how much over? Thanks.

CSM, STB, and DPW are peers. Hth.

thsmthcrmnl wrote:Anybody know what sort of grades an NYU student needs for the firms that are the tippy-top of selectivity? I'm talking Wachtell, W&C, Cravath, Munger, Susman, not Weil or Skadden or STB or DPW. Obviously over 3.6, but how much over? Thanks.

All of the following are estimates based off of an incredibly small anecdotal sample set:

Wachtell- Top 5%ish, lower if you have an incredibly strong financial background, probably need the background even if you are top 5%. (top 5% is about 3.85+ roughly)

W&C- top 5%+, and even this is unlikely. W&C and NYU have some bad history I believe.

Cravath - Tough to tell, probably about 10-15%+. Note that they ask for Undergraduate grades as well so these play a role.

Munger - No idea.

Susman - Ha. Maybe top 2%. Probably not then. Ask after landing a Fed. CoA clerkship.

DPW & CSM may be peers (not sure about STB), but the grade ranges they will look at are definitely different.

Again, these are rough estimates only provided because I hate all replies that are like "THERES NO WAY YOU CAN TELL AT ALL BLAH BLAH"

All this being said, its not a waste of a bid to apply to Wachtell with a 3.6, just know that your chances are super low (it is a waste if you have no finance background.)

Edited- Confused W&C w/ S&C. Fixed.

Detrox wrote:Wachtell- Top 5%ish, lower if you have an incredibly strong financial background, probably need the background even if you are top 5%. (top 5% is about 3.85+ roughly)

W&C- top 10-20%. (3.65+ should do)

There is no way Williams and Connolly is digging deeper into the class than Wachtell. And even if they are, they certainly aren't digging down to top 20 percent at NYU.

WODKilla123 wrote:CSM, STB, and DPW are peers. Hth.

Cravath's median callback GPA was lower than DPW or S&C at my T14 last year.

BruceWayne wrote:

Detrox wrote:Wachtell- Top 5%ish, lower if you have an incredibly strong financial background, probably need the background even if you are top 5%. (top 5% is about 3.85+ roughly)

W&C- top 10-20%. (3.65+ should do)

There is no way Williams and Connolly is digging deeper into the class than Wachtell. And even if they are, they certainly aren't digging down to top 20 percent at NYU.

Completely messed up. W&C- top 5% if not higher, and even then you have to apply outside of EIW. I confused it for S&C. My bad, editing.

Top 10-15% for CSM is completely ridiculous. They were hiring below median at NYU a few years ago, and out of the top 20% at NU last year. I'd imagine anyone in the top 1/3 at NYU has a great shot.

There is a huge selectivity gulf between Munger/W&C/etc and CSM/S&C/DPW. For the latter, top 1/3 at CCN or top 20-25% at a lower T14 has a good shot. Lot's of people at CSM/S&C/DPW from CLS/NYU who have just Stone or even no honors. Meanwhile, every NYU grad at Munger (except one whose data isn't filled in), had magna/coif and a feeder or 9th Circuit clerkship. Every CLS grad at Munger is either a Kent scholar or is a partner who graduated a long time ago.

Also: CSM asks for undergraduate transcripts, but whether anybody reads them...

rayiner wrote:

WODKilla123 wrote:CSM, STB, and DPW are peers. Hth.

Cravath's median callback GPA was lower than DPW or S&C at my T14 last year.

They are peer firms in the sense that they (1) compete roughly for the same group of students and (2) don't offer materially different exit options - it comes down to more specific strength of the group at that level.

Public M&A --> S&C
Capital Markets/ Dodd-Frank work--> DPW
Private Equity M&A --> STB

Remember STB is the firm that moved the market to 160k. I don't disagree that grade cutt offs by firm maybe slightly diferent but I don't think the myopic CSM is V2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>V10 calculus really applies in this situation. Also, to Rayiner's point- I'd like to see the cross-admit ratios of student's that got into all three of those firms. I bet I'd be interesting..

0L here, so don't know much, but I was surprised to see that CSM asks for undergraduate transcripts. What other firms, if any, do that?

WODKilla123 wrote:

rayiner wrote:

WODKilla123 wrote:CSM, STB, and DPW are peers. Hth.

Cravath's median callback GPA was lower than DPW or S&C at my T14 last year.

They are peer firms in the sense that they (1) compete roughly for the same group of students and (2) don't offer materially different exit options - it comes down to more specific strength of the group at that level.

Public M&A --> S&C
Capital Markets/ Dodd-Frank work--> DPW
Private Equity M&A --> STB

Remember STB is the firm that moved the market to 160k. I don't disagree that grade cutt offs by firm maybe slightly diferent but I don't think the myopic CSM is V2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>V10 calculus really applies in this situation. Also, to Rayiner's point- I'd like to see the cross-admit ratios of student's that got into all three of those firms. I bet I'd be interesting..

I don't think they'd be that interesting. CSM was the V5 that deferred. Everyone went to S&C.

You can be in the running at Cravath on down with substantially lower than a 3.6, though that is where you probably begin to be truly competitive at the more selective firms.

I know OCS gives out info on this which you probably have already; I can elaborate on what to do with that info if you PM me, don't want to post in too much detail out of deference to their desire to keep this stuff close to the chest.

WODKilla123 wrote:

rayiner wrote:

WODKilla123 wrote:CSM, STB, and DPW are peers. Hth.

Cravath's median callback GPA was lower than DPW or S&C at my T14 last year.

They are peer firms in the sense that they (1) compete roughly for the same group of students and (2) don't offer materially different exit options - it comes down to more specific strength of the group at that level.

Public M&A --> S&C
Capital Markets/ Dodd-Frank work--> DPW
Private Equity M&A --> STB

Remember STB is the firm that moved the market to 160k. I don't disagree that grade cutt offs by firm maybe slightly diferent but I don't think the myopic CSM is V2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>V10 calculus really applies in this situation. Also, to Rayiner's point- I'd like to see the cross-admit ratios of student's that got into all three of those firms. I bet I'd be interesting..

what other firms specialize in PE M&A?

Curious as to this question as well. Looks like you need a 3.5+ to be competitive at the top corporate firms (S&C, CSM, etc). ??

drbarry987 wrote:Curious as to this question as well. Looks like you need a 3.5+ to be competitive at the top corporate firms (S&C, CSM, etc). ??

Pretty much, you probably need a 3.6+ for S&C though because their grade floor is higher and more rigid.

drbarry987 wrote:Curious as to this question as well. Looks like you need a 3.5+ to be competitive at the top corporate firms (S&C, CSM, etc). ??

That's a good rule of thumb but there are certainly exceptions.