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Sorry 1Ls...didn't want to hijack your thread.

You did a good thing.

Any idea what the Columbia grading scale is besides the Kent and Stone cut offs? Like what percentile would a certain GPA put you in usually.

DontGetIt wrote:You did a good thing.

Any idea what the Columbia grading scale is besides the Kent and Stone cut offs? Like what percentile would a certain GPA put you in usually.

An interesting question.

I've heard 1L median is somewhere between 3.22 and 3.26. There were some great XOXO threads on this but they were lost in the great cataclysm that befell that website.

timbs4339 wrote:

DontGetIt wrote:You did a good thing.

Any idea what the Columbia grading scale is besides the Kent and Stone cut offs? Like what percentile would a certain GPA put you in usually.

An interesting question.

I've heard 1L median is somewhere between 3.22 and 3.26. There were some great XOXO threads on this but they were lost in the great cataclysm that befell that website.

What happened over there anyway?

timbs4339 wrote:Sorry 1Ls...didn't want to hijack your thread.

What your experiences with EIP? What do you think separates those who succeeded from those who didn't?

timbs4339 wrote:Sorry 1Ls...didn't want to hijack your thread.

How does the pace of work change over the years? Do you feel that things are more relaxed now that you are a 3L?

NC1 wrote:

timbs4339 wrote:Sorry 1Ls...didn't want to hijack your thread.

What your experiences with EIP? What do you think separates those who succeeded from those who didn't?

My experience has been pretty well documented- safe to say it was horrible. I used half of my bids (the top ones too) on my home market and didn't get a single callback out of 15 firms- firms just weren't hiring that many people and were concentrating callbacks among a few very high grade students. In NYC I got 3 callbacks and failed to convert one of them into an offer. My main problem I think was being pretty average- although I wasn't a poor candidate there was just nothing to recommend me against my classmates except for Columbia Law School. Of course, everyone at CLS EIP will have Columbia Law School. There really has to be something else there.

The successful candidates were people who bid properly and had some kind of hook, good grades being the most obvious, but also work experience, language skills, or a super personality that makes people like you immediately. After getting out of the top third things became a bit more random, so someone with no work experience and a 3.2 might strike out whereas someone with a 3.0 and a few years of finance work might get pretty good offers.

Basically, I always say you have to watch out if you have the following:

Median grades
No work experience (or maybe a year of irrelevant experience)
Average personality
No other hook to separate you from the other 20 people they are seeing that day

Even then it's possible to get a job with good bidding. Some firms take so many CLS kids it is 2007-esque. The best thing to do if you think you might strike out is bid as well as you can, and mass mail and resume drop plus apply to federal government honors programs. That was my other huge mistake- passively waiting for my callback rejection letters to come in before I started looking for a job.

The best thing is obviously good grades. But if those (and your WE and personality) are set in stone, the best thing is to run your bidlist by as many people as possible. Don't trust Career Services. They see too many students to give real bid advice and it never seemed like they wanted to look too deeply at how they might help students construct better bidlists (posting more selectivity data would be a good start).

Once you strike out at EIP, life begins to suck hard. Put yourself in the best position to succeed.

TatNurner wrote:

timbs4339 wrote:Sorry 1Ls...didn't want to hijack your thread.

How does the pace of work change over the years? Do you feel that things are more relaxed now that you are a 3L?

I firmly believe that a lot of the work students do is motivated by fear of how poor grades will impact your career, and a lot of that fear dissipates as you move into the higher classes. So 1L you not only don't know what you are doing (everyone is running around like headless chickens trying to figure out the "perfect" study strategy) you are terrified of striking out. 2Ls are still kind of afraid, this time about getting no-offered due to a grade drop. 3L there is even less of a motivation.

I know a lot of people who have checked out entirely. They do things like write code, write novels, travel, day-trade (online poker before the ban), get into MMORPGs, or just drink and smoke. My class attendance and note-taking was, um, sporadic. The great thing about CLS is that the curve adjusts to meet the lack of effort in two ways. First, you can take seminar or clinic classes where 66% of the class gets above an A- (and the curve for regular courses moves up significantly too) as well as do RAing for credit. Second, LLMs are graded on the same curve as JDs, in some classes they make up 33% or more of the class. I'm not saying they are all at the bottom of the curve, but it is definitely easier with them in a large lecture like corporations or sec reg. I put in maybe 5-10% of the effort I did for 1L and easily got honors both 2L and 3L year.

Another big thing after 1L was that I started working part-time and interning. I did an insane amount of work each week, just not in class. I found those experiences to be much more rewarding than taking traditional classes.

Of course many students stay very interested in the material 2L and 3L years. CLS gives you that opportunity as well. There are a ton of esoteric, abstract classes. Or you can take more practical classes. Since everyone is sort of gravitating towards what they want to do, there is a lot less stress and people are a lot happier.

No work experience (or maybe a year of irrelevant experience)

Do you then think that 2-3 years of irrelevant experience is somewhat beneficial? Of course it won't be as helpful as working in finance, but I've spent a few years teaching English abroad and worry that I'll be lumped in with K-JDs.

otnemem wrote:

No work experience (or maybe a year of irrelevant experience)

Do you then think that 2-3 years of irrelevant experience is somewhat beneficial? Of course it won't be as helpful as working in finance, but I've spent a few years teaching English abroad and worry that I'll be lumped in with K-JDs.

I think so. It may not give you a huge boost like finance/consulting/banking, but it will set you apart from someone with no WE. It may give you an indirect boost if the interviewer is particularly interested in your experience and it leads to a good conversation.

And are you fluent in another language? I know people with below median grades who got amazing offers because of their language skills.

timbs4339 wrote:I think so. It may not give you a huge boost like finance/consulting/banking, but it will set you apart from someone with no WE. It may give you an indirect boost if the interviewer is particularly interested in your experience and it leads to a good conversation.

And are you fluent in another language? I know people with below median grades who got amazing offers because of their language skills.

Out of curiosity, how fluent are we talking here (for those for whom language skills made a difference at OCI)? Are we talking can hold a conversation, can say "Ni Hao," can translate novels, etc.

Timbs, do you know any folks doing the JD/MBA? In particular, the 3 year one? What are thoughts on it?

If you do know some people doing the JD/MBA, do you know what industries they were in before they enrolled?

Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:

timbs4339 wrote:I think so. It may not give you a huge boost like finance/consulting/banking, but it will set you apart from someone with no WE. It may give you an indirect boost if the interviewer is particularly interested in your experience and it leads to a good conversation.

And are you fluent in another language? I know people with below median grades who got amazing offers because of their language skills.

Out of curiosity, how fluent are we talking here (for those for whom language skills made a difference at OCI)? Are we talking can hold a conversation, can say "Ni Hao," can translate novels, etc.

For interview purposes, they will want you to be able to carry on a conversation in that language- so being able to answer the same interview questions in the other language that you would in English. My friends who claimed language skills are all pretty fluent in the alternative language (like being able to read novels in that language or speaking it at home). They may have been a bit rusty but can converse pretty fluidly.

TatNurner wrote:Timbs, do you know any folks doing the JD/MBA? In particular, the 3 year one? What are thoughts on it?

If you do know some people doing the JD/MBA, do you know what industries they were in before they enrolled?

Haven't met any JD/MBA students.