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what do people who graduate at the bottom of there class do, jobs wise (assuming they get one)?

work as a lawyer for only five figures.

dkang wrote:what do people who graduate at the bottom of there class do, jobs wise (assuming they get one)?

Depends on the school.

SilverE2 wrote:

dkang wrote:what do people who graduate at the bottom of there class do, jobs wise (assuming they get one)?

Depends on the school.

It does depend on the school, but the result is basically the same as far as income is concerned. Doc review, shitlaw, Applebees and Starbucks all pay about the same.

LawIdiot86 wrote:

SilverE2 wrote:

dkang wrote:what do people who graduate at the bottom of there class do, jobs wise (assuming they get one)?

Depends on the school.

It does depend on the school, but the result is basically the same as far as income is concerned. Doc review, shitlaw, Applebees and Starbucks all pay about the same.

what about a 20-40 ranked school? maybe emory, Illinois, etc.

LawIdiot86 wrote:

SilverE2 wrote:

dkang wrote:what do people who graduate at the bottom of there class do, jobs wise (assuming they get one)?

Depends on the school.

It does depend on the school, but the result is basically the same as far as income is concerned. Doc review, shitlaw, Applebees and Starbucks all pay about the same.

That's strange. I'm almost positive that my secondary market biglaw job has a different salary from the bolded. Either that or Doc review, shitlaw, Applebees and Starbucks have dramatically raised their pay scales. Well I suppose there's also the possibility that you don't know what you're talking about...

dkang wrote:

LawIdiot86 wrote:

SilverE2 wrote:

dkang wrote:what do people who graduate at the bottom of there class do, jobs wise (assuming they get one)?

Depends on the school.

It does depend on the school, but the result is basically the same as far as income is concerned. Doc review, shitlaw, Applebees and Starbucks all pay about the same.

what about a 20-40 ranked school? maybe emory, Illinois, etc.

That's a pretty big range, but generally, pretty fucked.

It can vary significantly, even when comparing low ranked people at the same school. It's impossible to throw out possibilities without assuming a wide variety of things.

For example:
Whether the person has connections
Whether the person networked while in school
What practice areas the person would/would not accept
Whether the person has relevant internship experiences
Whether the person was on the law review (write on, of course)
Whether the person was on the flagship moot court (argue on, of course)
Whether the person would be willing to take a non-legal job
What the person majored in in undergrad
What advanced degrees the person has/plan to get (re: MBA, PHD, LLM, MS, etc.)
Whether the person experiences something called luck

what if you tried to do something in business? do they care as much about rank? and business is usually decent pay right? 60ish starting?

dkang wrote:what if you tried to do something in business? do they care as much about rank? and business is usually decent pay right? 60ish starting?

1. "Business" isn't an industry classification.

2. Employers hiring generalist positions will still care about grades and will wonder why the hell you went to law school if you really wanted to be a project coordinator or human resources specialist.

3. No, they don't start at 60k. Accountants with a five year degree going to a top firm start at about 60k. Entry level jobs of the type you are thinking of start around 30k-45k depending on specific industry and location.

dkang wrote:what if you tried to do something in business? do they care as much about rank? and business is usually decent pay right? 60ish starting?

That's a perfect example of what I meant above about it being impossible to tell without more information.

What type of business job?
What undergrad degree do you have? Do you have an MBA?
How is your internship/full time work experience in business look?
Where are you getting the law degree from? Is the school well regarded?
What market? (larger markets pay more, but the money is worth less in terms of buying power). Is your law school well recognized in that market?

Aberzombie1892 wrote:

dkang wrote:what if you tried to do something in business? do they care as much about rank? and business is usually decent pay right? 60ish starting?

That's a perfect example of what I meant above about it being impossible to tell without more information.

What type of business job?
What undergrad degree do you have? Do you have an MBA?
How is your internship/full time work experience in business look?
Where are you getting the law degree from? Is the school well regarded?
What market? (larger markets pay more, but the money is worth less in terms of buying power). Is your law school well recognized in that market?

I have a undergrad degree in Computer Information Systems. I am currently working in a law firm and am attending law school in 2013, probably at emory. As far what type of business job, i didn't have an specific job in mind. I was just wondering what my options are if I didn't do well in law school.

dkang wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:

dkang wrote:what if you tried to do something in business? do they care as much about rank? and business is usually decent pay right? 60ish starting?

That's a perfect example of what I meant above about it being impossible to tell without more information.

What type of business job?
What undergrad degree do you have? Do you have an MBA?
How is your internship/full time work experience in business look?
Where are you getting the law degree from? Is the school well regarded?
What market? (larger markets pay more, but the money is worth less in terms of buying power). Is your law school well recognized in that market?

I have a undergrad degree in Computer Information Systems. I am currently working in a law firm and am attending law school in 2013, probably at emory. As far what type of business job, i didn't have an specific job in mind. I was just wondering what my options are if I didn't do well in law school.

They'll be basically the same as what you have now with the CIS degree (I assume this like the BCIS/CSC distinction at my school and am weighting it as such in the tone of my comment), with a slight deduction because you'll be three years behind the curve in the industry and have an unrelated degree on your resume. Why not get an MBA instead and go to work as a technician or technical specialist?

LawIdiot86 wrote:

dkang wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:

dkang wrote:what if you tried to do something in business? do they care as much about rank? and business is usually decent pay right? 60ish starting?

That's a perfect example of what I meant above about it being impossible to tell without more information.

What type of business job?
What undergrad degree do you have? Do you have an MBA?
How is your internship/full time work experience in business look?
Where are you getting the law degree from? Is the school well regarded?
What market? (larger markets pay more, but the money is worth less in terms of buying power). Is your law school well recognized in that market?

I have a undergrad degree in Computer Information Systems. I am currently working in a law firm and am attending law school in 2013, probably at emory. As far what type of business job, i didn't have an specific job in mind. I was just wondering what my options are if I didn't do well in law school.

They'll be basically the same as what you have now with the CIS degree (I assume this like the BCIS/CSC distinction at my school and am weighting it as such in the tone of my comment), with a slight deduction because you'll be three years behind the curve in the industry and have an unrelated degree on your resume. Why not get an MBA instead and go to work as a technician or technical specialist?

To be honest, IT is something I don't really want to do for the rest of my life and I would much rather be a lawyer. I guess the prospects of much greater pay plays a role in it too. I have always done well in school so I think I should do just fine, I just wanted to know what my options were in case I do get screwed.

LawIdiot86 wrote:

SilverE2 wrote:

dkang wrote:what do people who graduate at the bottom of there class do, jobs wise (assuming they get one)?

Depends on the school.

It does depend on the school, but the result is basically the same as far as income is concerned. Doc review, shitlaw, Applebees and Starbucks all pay about the same.

Baseless. Even if you got a shitlaw job paying 20,000 a year you would still be making more than if a barista at Starbucks, applebees, etc

RedBirds2011 wrote:

LawIdiot86 wrote:

SilverE2 wrote:

dkang wrote:what do people who graduate at the bottom of there class do, jobs wise (assuming they get one)?

Depends on the school.

It does depend on the school, but the result is basically the same as far as income is concerned. Doc review, shitlaw, Applebees and Starbucks all pay about the same.

Baseless. Even if you got a shitlaw job paying 20,000 a year you would still be making more than if a barista at Starbucks, applebees, etc

I'll go off the mid-point of --LinkRemoved-- at $9 an hour, that's $18,000 a year assuming a 40 hour work week (much better than shitlaw's hours). Applebees comes in at $16k (--LinkRemoved--), but I'm guessing tips are unreported in that survey.

You can sell cars. If you're good at it, you can make $90K to $100K.

I'll go off the mid-point of --LinkRemoved-- at $9 an hour, that's $18,000 a year assuming a 40 hour work week (much better than shitlaw's hours). Applebees comes in at $16k (--LinkRemoved--), but I'm guessing tips are unreported in that survey.[/quote]

Yes, which is under 20,000 a year. Most shitlaw jobs at worst start you at 30-35,000. Having worked in both minimum wage jobs and "shitlaw" I can objectively say you don't know what you're talking about. The difference between 18,000 and 35,000 is a very very substantial difference. So just stop.

RedBirds2011 wrote:I'll go off the mid-point of --LinkRemoved-- at $9 an hour, that's $18,000 a year assuming a 40 hour work week (much better than shitlaw's hours). Applebees comes in at $16k (--LinkRemoved--), but I'm guessing tips are unreported in that survey.

Yes, which is under 20,000 a year. Most shitlaw jobs at worst start you at 30-35,000. Having worked in both minimum wage jobs and "shitlaw" I can objectively say you don't know what you're talking about. The difference between 18,000 and 35,000 is a very very substantial difference. So just stop.[/quote]

The shitlaw jobs on my Simplicity started at 23k when I looked last month.

LawIdiot86 wrote:

RedBirds2011 wrote:I'll go off the mid-point of --LinkRemoved-- at $9 an hour, that's $18,000 a year assuming a 40 hour work week (much better than shitlaw's hours). Applebees comes in at $16k (--LinkRemoved--), but I'm guessing tips are unreported in that survey.

Yes, which is under 20,000 a year. Most shitlaw jobs at worst start you at 30-35,000. Having worked in both minimum wage jobs and "shitlaw" I can objectively say you don't know what you're talking about. The difference between 18,000 and 35,000 is a very very substantial difference. So just stop.

The shitlaw jobs on my Simplicity started at 23k when I looked last month.[/quote]


Which would still be nice since you'd go suited up and be working with a few top law school washed up people. Working at starbucks has a too great of chance at running into someone you know.

LawIdiot86 wrote:

RedBirds2011 wrote:I'll go off the mid-point of --LinkRemoved-- at $9 an hour, that's $18,000 a year assuming a 40 hour work week (much better than shitlaw's hours). Applebees comes in at $16k (--LinkRemoved--), but I'm guessing tips are unreported in that survey.

Yes, which is under 20,000 a year. Most shitlaw jobs at worst start you at 30-35,000. Having worked in both minimum wage jobs and "shitlaw" I can objectively say you don't know what you're talking about. The difference between 18,000 and 35,000 is a very very substantial difference. So just stop.

The shitlaw jobs on my Simplicity started at 23k when I looked last month.[/quote]

I have worked in "shitlaw" and I have never in my life heard of someone getting a job for under 30,000. The source of the whining comes from how low THAT can be. 23,000 may exist but it's mostly nonsense...maybe even dumber than the people who think you can go to Cooley and have a high likelyhood of making 160,000

But it also depends on how both of us may be defining what shitlaw is

The math on contract doc review stuff never made much sense to me. Most places pay $25-$30 per hour. They usually work you to the bone some days of the week and then work gets light, so figure 50 hours per week.... That's actually higher than some "shitlaw" jobs.

NoleinNY wrote:The math on contract doc review stuff never made much sense to me. Most places pay $25-$30 per hour. They usually work you to the bone some days of the week and then work gets light, so figure 50 hours per week.... That's actually higher than some "shitlaw" jobs.

Yea, this is correct from what I understand. They get paid ok but the problem is they don't know how long their "employment" will last and it is a huge dead end job. In smaller firms you have the chance to develop a career over time and, if successful, make substantially more (which is how almost every other job in the economy works). The immediate six figure starting salaries for some students is a real rarity when you compare it to most other industries.

RedBirds2011 wrote:

LawIdiot86 wrote:

RedBirds2011 wrote:I'll go off the mid-point of --LinkRemoved-- at $9 an hour, that's $18,000 a year assuming a 40 hour work week (much better than shitlaw's hours). Applebees comes in at $16k (--LinkRemoved--), but I'm guessing tips are unreported in that survey.

Yes, which is under 20,000 a year. Most shitlaw jobs at worst start you at 30-35,000. Having worked in both minimum wage jobs and "shitlaw" I can objectively say you don't know what you're talking about. The difference between 18,000 and 35,000 is a very very substantial difference. So just stop.

The shitlaw jobs on my Simplicity started at 23k when I looked last month.

I have worked in "shitlaw" and I have never in my life heard of someone getting a job for under 30,000. The source of the whining comes from how low THAT can be. 23,000 may exist but it's mostly nonsense...maybe even dumber than the people who think you can go to Cooley and have a high likelyhood of making 160,000[/quote]

And to add to this, the people I know who got hired started at 40,000-50,000 so when I say 30,000 I'm talking worst case scenario...that's what makes the 23,000 sound like such nonsense. However, those jobs I am talking about typically are not found on an Internet job board, which most of the good smaller jobs outside of big law aren't.