NYU 3L Taking Questions Forum

[sven]

It runs often at all times. During rush hours, it is every 5 minutes, and usually every 10 min throughout the day. At night, I believe it extends to every 15 min, but it is usually less than that. I don't think I've ever actually waited 15 min for a train except a few times on Saturdays. Best part is that it runs 24 hours a day and is cheaper than a subway ride.

Jesus Christ that is incredible. Thanks!

[ahduth]

I only know one guy who lives in Hoboken - he gave me the impression that places close to the PATH stops were going to climb close to Lower Manhattan-esque prices, just with more space / nicer places perhaps (similar to Brooklyn). Does that sound right? I didn't look out there, thinking I would want to be withing walking distance of campus for 1L.

[operationclownshoes]

Give a fellow NYUer some exam/outling/studying words of wisdom from a 2L....

[kaiser]

I only know one guy who lives in Hoboken - he gave me the impression that places close to the PATH stops were going to climb close to Lower Manhattan-esque prices, just with more space / nicer places perhaps (similar to Brooklyn). Does that sound right? I didn't look out there, thinking I would want to be withing walking distance of campus for 1L.

Well sure, if you want to live in some super nice place with a 1 minute walk to the station, you will pay quite a bit, even in Jersey City or Hoboken (btw, I recommend Jersey City over Hoboken, since the living space isn't quite as tightly packed). But just by way of comparison, NYU law dorms start at something like 1350, and that is for the bare minimum, and most are around 1600-1800, with some over 2K. I live 5 min away from a PATH stop in Jersey City, can get to class in 25 minutes, get a locker at the school to store my books, and pay under 800 a month. The only people who pay Manhattan-esque prices on the Jersey side are the people who need to live immediately next to the stations, go overboard in the size of the apartments, or seek out luxury buildings.

[Detrox]

Give a fellow NYUer some exam/outling/studying words of wisdom from a 2L....

Classes are highly dependent on class topic and professor. Crim/torts/contracts and to some degree ars are all generally issue spotters where the actual test taking method is similar, whereas civ pro I found to be more about conceptual and logical analysis of situations. Past exams from your profs are like gold and should be reserved for post-Thanksgiving unless you have more then 5. Take them under real test conditions.

I found study groups to be immensely useful for discussing exams and arguing answers. Conversely, I found outlines immensely unhelpful and even detrimental, especially for closed book exams. Open book exams, the best outlines I've found are short reference materials and not compendiums of the course.

I found the cases and the in class notes to be my best studying resources, but I know a lot of people prefer the supplemental sources like the Contracts Chirelstein book and the Glannon E&E for Civ Pro.

I guess that's it unless you have specific questions.

[howlery]

Thanks for taking questions. What would you recommend I see on a visit to the LS? I've toured the UG and wander around Greenwich whenever I go back to NYC to visit, but what areas do you think I'd have to see? Guess I'm asking where you spend most of your time in and around the school. Or is this impossible to answer considering the fragmented nature of the University versus, say, Columbia.

[Detrox]

Thanks for taking questions. What would you recommend I see on a visit to the LS? I've toured the UG and wander around Greenwich whenever I go back to NYC to visit, but what areas do you think I'd have to see? Guess I'm asking where you spend most of your time in and around the school. Or is this impossible to answer considering the fragmented nature of the University versus, say, Columbia.

The law school is really quite centralized. There's Vanderbilt Hall which holds the majority of classes, and Furman Hall right next to it which holds classes and is where things like Lawyering tends to meet. Other then that, there's just the residences and scattered buildings shared with the undergrad for use (like the gyms), that you really don't need to visit.

The one thing I do really recommend seeing is a class (preferably a 1L class). The one I attempted to see during my visit was canceled, but every time 0Ls have sat in on a class I was in, I've been jealous of their getting to experience what a NYU Law class was like before actually having to have made their decision.

[howlery]

Thanks for taking questions. What would you recommend I see on a visit to the LS? I've toured the UG and wander around Greenwich whenever I go back to NYC to visit, but what areas do you think I'd have to see? Guess I'm asking where you spend most of your time in and around the school. Or is this impossible to answer considering the fragmented nature of the University versus, say, Columbia.

The law school is really quite centralized. There's Vanderbilt Hall which holds the majority of classes, and Furman Hall right next to it which holds classes and is where things like Lawyering tends to meet. Other then that, there's just the residences and scattered buildings shared with the undergrad for use (like the gyms), that you really don't need to visit.

The one thing I do really recommend seeing is a class (preferably a 1L class). The one I attempted to see during my visit was canceled, but every time 0Ls have sat in on a class I was in, I've been jealous of their getting to experience what a NYU Law class was like before actually having to have made their decision.

Sitting in on a class would be great! I won't be applying for a couple (few?) cycles, though. Do you think I'd be allowed to sit in anyway? Guess I'll call and ask, wasn't really planning on visiting but I'll be in town early November.

I also wanted to ask about their financial aid. From my experience the UG is profoundly stingy (partly because of the endowment to student ratio, opening new campuses as if they were Starbucks, etc.), and hope the LS is not the same. AnBryce, RTK, etc. are comforting but that has to account for <5% of the incoming class. What is regular, need-based aid like? Is the package reassessed every year, like Harvard, or does an SA position not reduce your reward like Columbia?

[BaiAilian2013]

Not sure about need-based aid, but merit-based aid does get reduced by half if you make more than $15k (I think) your 2L summer.

[jim-green]

I heard 30% of NYU students were shut out of OCI. If this is true, does that mean not allowed to interview, or did not get callback?

How is the recruiting for science majors who wish to do patent law?

[spondee]

I heard 30% of NYU students were shut out of OCI. If this is true, does that mean not allowed to interview, or did not get callback?

How is the recruiting for science majors who wish to do patent law?

You probably mean the percent of EIW participants who struck out at EIW (i.e, no offer). So it's not % of NYU students; it's % of EIW participants. Anyone who wants to interview at EIW can but not everyone does. Most PI students, students with jobs lined up already, etc., don't participate.

It's roughly the percent that sought biglaw and struck out. But even then it's an overestimate because it's going to count people as "striking out" that still got great jobs—just outside of EIW. E.g., gov't-focused students that only interview w/ the State Dept at EIW, don't get that, but get other good gov't work. Students targeting small markets who get an offer there and pull out of EIW before getting offers there. And even students who get midlaw or biglaw through fall OCI after striking out at EIW.

Patent people usually do well, especially if they have the degree + work experience.

[kaiser]

Plus, I still have friends who are getting job offers from firms that didn't fill up through their initial rounds of recruiting. Also, I'm not sure where the 30% figure comes from. Everyone I know has a job lined up. My circle of friends is relatively small, but not a single person is without a job.

[jim-green]

Thanks, that is very reassuring and helpful. What is EIW?

[kaiser]

Thanks, that is very reassuring and helpful. What is EIW?

EIW = Early Interview Week. Its when all the big firms come to interview and recruit NYU students. Its a 4 day event held at a hotel in Times Square. This is where the vast majority of people will end up securing jobs.

[jim-green]

Thanks, again.

[dixiecupdrinking]

I also wanted to ask about their financial aid. From my experience the UG is profoundly stingy (partly because of the endowment to student ratio, opening new campuses as if they were Starbucks, etc.), and hope the LS is not the same. AnBryce, RTK, etc. are comforting but that has to account for <5% of the incoming class. What is regular, need-based aid like? Is the package reassessed every year, like Harvard, or does an SA position not reduce your reward like Columbia?

Aid, as far as I know, is really all merit-based. (This seems to be the case for all law schools except maybe HYS, as I understand it; the expectation is that you'll just borrow money to pay for it if you're from a lower income family.)

Amounts are generally comparable to what an applicant would get from Chicago and Columbia. You get a scholarship offer up front for all three years. NYU is unusual (maybe actually unique in this regard, I'm not sure) in that they give you half your scholarship your third year, unless you do public interest your second summer. So you get a scholarship offer that will be something like, for instance, $15,000 1L year, $15,000 2L year, and $7,500 3L year, if you go to a firm. (This is actually a little bit annoying but it all comes out in the wash in the end.) In that sense, a SA position does reduce your award, but it's all laid out when you're admitted to the school, they don't change it up on you while you're matriculated.

[howlery]

Thank you both, dixicupdrinking and BaiAilian2013. I think I was forgetting the expectations of grad/professional schools regarding funding, hah.

[hyakku]

I've actually got a question about the app process. I'm a URM and also thinking about applying for the AnBryce scholarship. I'm wondering if you think I should just modify my DS for the an Bryce and not do a DS for NYU or do both? I feel like I may be a bit redundant as my DS kind of touches on my socioeconomic background and a major reason I'd like to attend law school, so I'm leaning on just doing the AnBryce as they know I'm black and that essay will touch on my background. Do you know anything about this ?

[Detrox]

I've actually got a question about the app process. I'm a URM and also thinking about applying for the AnBryce scholarship. I'm wondering if you think I should just modify my DS for the an Bryce and not do a DS for NYU or do both? I feel like I may be a bit redundant as my DS kind of touches on my socioeconomic background and a major reason I'd like to attend law school, so I'm leaning on just doing the AnBryce as they know I'm black and that essay will touch on my background. Do you know anything about this ?

No idea sorry, but maybe another NYU poster who has that scholarship can help. If not, I recommend posting in the Admissions forum.

[snehpets]

I know you had multiple reasons for choosing NYU over Columbia, but you did mention that at least one of them was your preference for the vibe and the people of nyu/the village over columbia/morningside heights. I find myself leaning towards NYU for this reason as well (though I'm a presumptuous 0L posting this before acceptances even start to go out, of course). However, lots of people on TLS seems to strongly advise against choosing a law school based on this sort of leaning. Do you have any regrets about basing part of your decision on this? Do you have any friends/acquaintances that made a similar decision and, if so, do you know their feelings on it?

Thanks!

[Detrox]

I know you had multiple reasons for choosing NYU over Columbia, but you did mention that at least one of them was your preference for the vibe and the people of nyu/the village over columbia/morningside heights. I find myself leaning towards NYU for this reason as well (though I'm a presumptuous 0L posting this before acceptances even start to go out, of course). However, lots of people on TLS seems to strongly advise against choosing a law school based on this sort of leaning. Do you have any regrets about basing part of your decision on this? Do you have any friends/acquaintances that made a similar decision and, if so, do you know their feelings on it?

Thanks!

I just wrote out a very long answer to this and my browser crashed, so sorry but my second answer will be less detailed. In short, I have no regrets about how I made my decision (other then considering International Law). NYU and Columbia are essentially equal in all considerations primarily relating to post-graduation work, especially in New York but elsewhere as well. Columbia has minor advantages in some areas, and has the ivy league name, but these factors are just not strong enough in my opinion to justify chooosing Columbia over NYU for no other reason. Both schools are rife with people who chose one over the other for such "soft" factors such as feel of students, location, etc. as well as career path reasons (so yes I do have friends/acquaintances who made similar decisions). Some people will prestige whore, others will go entirely on things like feel and location.

Final note, I do regret not applying to UChicago if you are considering there, only because I have an interest in academia and it has a significant advantage in that field, but again I think most other factors are equal if you are not trying to work in academia or Chicago.

[ahduth]

Among other reasons, I picked it over CLS for what I'd call the "activist" administration. They are very aggressive in their efforts to improve the school, with a faculty recruiting machine that I'm not sure is quite matched anywhere else. They just picked up this guy, and I'll have him for Admin Law next semester:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_H._Ginsburg

The list goes on, they seem to recruit new people constantly.

I'm sure CLS has no problem picking people up either, but I just didn't sense the same level of urgency when talking with administrators and faculty up there during ASW.

[snehpets]

I just wrote out a very long answer to this and my browser crashed, so sorry but my second answer will be less detailed. In short, I have no regrets about how I made my decision (other then considering International Law). NYU and Columbia are essentially equal in all considerations primarily relating to post-graduation work, especially in New York but elsewhere as well. Columbia has minor advantages in some areas, and has the ivy league name, but these factors are just not strong enough in my opinion to justify chooosing Columbia over NYU for no other reason. Both schools are rife with people who chose one over the other for such "soft" factors such as feel of students, location, etc. as well as career path reasons (so yes I do have friends/acquaintances who made similar decisions). Some people will prestige whore, others will go entirely on things like feel and location.

Final note, I do regret not applying to UChicago if you are considering there, only because I have an interest in academia and it has a significant advantage in that field, but again I think most other factors are equal if you are not trying to work in academia or Chicago.

Thank you! This is what I was looking for. People on these boards really play up the "if you don't go to Yale you're never getting a job/repaying your loans but if you HAVE to go below HYS Columbia is the ONLY place you should consider" angle, so it's nice to hear someone who sounds successful/confident in their decision to pick NYU. thanks again!

To ahduth, thanks to you as well. I kind of got that vibe from NYU as well, so I'm glad to have you confirm it.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Thank you! This is what I was looking for. People on these boards really play up the "if you don't go to Yale you're never getting a job/repaying your loans but if you HAVE to go below HYS Columbia is the ONLY place you should consider" angle, so it's nice to hear someone who sounds successful/confident in their decision to pick NYU. thanks again!

To ahduth, thanks to you as well. I kind of got that vibe from NYU as well, so I'm glad to have you confirm it.

Though you're exaggerating a bit, the bolded attitude does exist on TLS and seems to have gotten much more pronounced since I applied two years ago, when the conventional wisdom on these boards seemed predominately to be that the schools are more or less equal, with maybe a slight edge to Columbia on balance. The only thing that's changed since then is NYU fell from 5 to 6 on the USNWR rankings, and my subjective impression is that has opened the floodgates for this idea that NYU is clearly inferior. There may be some merit to some of that conventional wisdom, but you have to remember that this board is an echo chamber above all.

[freestallion]

I recently saw a document that Michigan had on their website listing all the summer internship positions taken by each one of their students in 1L and 2L years. Here's the link: http://www.law.umich.edu/careers/classs ... stats.aspx.

I would like to find a similar listing/information from NYU (primarily for 2L summer statistics/data) but can't seem to find anything on the website. Anyone have this type of info? Thanks!