Top Law Schools

There are a few of us on TLS, so I'm sure my colleagues will contribute here as well.

Ask away .

Thanks for doing this! I'm sure I'll have a lot more of my questions answered at the ASD, but while prepping for that... a question: can you speak to the quality of the faculty? I know UCI has some serious rock star power, but I'm thinking in terms of the upper level courses and the more specialized areas of law. I know UCI will find someone to teach a class if it has the prerequisite interest, but I don't want an education based on the adjunct faculty. Does this make sense? Since I'm interested in gender law, and UCI doesn't have a designated scholar in the field, I wonder how UCI will fare in finding people to work with in the area. Again, thanks!

What are the school facilities like? On-campus housing? I couldn't visit the campus (and currently can't either). Also, how about internship and employment prospects? I'd imagine other Californian law schools are fierce competitors for both internships and jobs.

Is there any way for me to get involved with women's law/ feminist jurisprudence/ family law/ gay marriage litigation at UCI? I see there's a Women's Law Club, but there's no Women's Law Review or Family Law Clinic.

Also, how realistic is it for me to potentially start one of the above?

Last, how likely is it that I'll get into Vista del Campo housing? I'm a swimmer, so I would love to live somewhere with a pool (and in unit laundry machines!!)

Metaread wrote:What are the school facilities like? On-campus housing? I couldn't visit the campus (and currently can't either). Also, how about internship and employment prospects? I'd imagine other Californian law schools are fierce competitors for both internships and jobs.

Check it out. This is one grad housing option.

http://vistadelcampoliving.com/

lfp wrote:Thanks for doing this! I'm sure I'll have a lot more of my questions answered at the ASD, but while prepping for that... a question: can you speak to the quality of the faculty? I know UCI has some serious rock star power, but I'm thinking in terms of the upper level courses and the more specialized areas of law. I know UCI will find someone to teach a class if it has the prerequisite interest, but I don't want an education based on the adjunct faculty. Does this make sense? Since I'm interested in gender law, and UCI doesn't have a designated scholar in the field, I wonder how UCI will fare in finding people to work with in the area. Again, thanks!

As you've already noted, our faculty is truly outstanding. UCI made an effort to hire faculty not only with exceptional knowledge and experience in particular legal fields, but also with records of exceptional teaching (whether through teaching awards, references, etc.). I think the latter is of utmost importance and it's something very few people know about UCI's top-notch faculty. During orientation I asked one of the top administrators at the school if he could compare the law school experience I'd receive at UCI vs. that I'd receive at another top school which I turned down for UCI. He noted a number of things, but he emphasized the pedigree and accessibility of the UCI faculty. He said said while other top schools surely have incredible professors, they also have not-so-incredible (but still very good) professors. In other words, you might not be so fortunate as to take classes with the "top" professors at the school. Given UCI's small community, we are fortunate to say 100% of our professors are rockstars, so regardless of who your teachers will be, you'll be learning from the best.

To be sure, UCI is actively in the process of hiring faculty to cover a number of specialized areas. Fortunately, our small faculty is so wonderful that we're able to have a number of professors teach a range of classes. Professor Dan Burk, for example, is easily one of the nation's leading patent law experts, but he's also taught torts for many years, so he's currently teaching torts to the 1Ls. Actually, the other torts professor at the moment is Professor Richard Hasen, a visiting professor from Loyola. While you mention a fear of learning specialized topics from adjunct professors, it will please you to hear that UCI only hires visiting professors and adjuncts who are exceptional scholars. In fact, the UCI students have been raving about Professor Hasen since day one, and given such enthusiasm, the school has made an offer to Professor Hasen to become a permanent faculty member at UCI! I've heard that Loyola students are very annoyed and worried by this, since Professor Hasen is truly a gem. Another example I can give is Paul Hoffman, who is an adjunct professor teaching international human rights. While not a full-time professor, Mr. Hoffman is one of the biggest names in the field of international human rights. He's an absolute monster in the area, and it's a privilege to have him on our campus!

Dean Chemerinsky is committed to finding the best teachers. Also, keep in mind that along with a prestigious faculty comes an abundance of connections. Our faculty surely has many close contacts with top professors in virtually every field.

Metaread wrote:What are the school facilities like? On-campus housing? I couldn't visit the campus (and currently can't either). Also, how about internship and employment prospects? I'd imagine other Californian law schools are fierce competitors for both internships and jobs.

School facilities are great. Our library is gorgeous, our courtyard is intimate, the main campus is beautiful, our lecture halls are top-notch, and our smaller classrooms are high-tech and very comfortable. We had AC problems in one of the buildings at the beginning of the year, but that's all been taken care of.

There are a number of options for housing, and they each have their advantages and disadvantages (newness, price, proximity, etc.). For example, Verano Place and Palo Verde are extremely popular because they're cheap. Vista del Campo is nice because it has great ammenities (pool, gym, basketball, etc.). Puerta del Sol is cool because it's brand new (just opened this year) and it's directly across the street from the law school! It is, however, more expensive than the other on-campus options.

In terms of internships/employment, all I can say is so-far, so-good. The 2Ls all found work last summer, and they're doing very well this summer, too (many, many private firm offers). My 1L colleagues have not all found summer employment yet, but those who have are very excited with their plans, and those who haven't are still unsure of what they want to do but are nonetheless optimistic. I think there's this feeling that in the worst case scenario, the school will find you something intriguing to do over summer if you have no other options come the last days of school.

It's probably too early to say how tough the competition is from other schools in the area. Honestly, so many local firms, public interest organizations, and judges are excited about UCI that they're not interested in comparing us to other students at the moment. They simply want to get a taste of what our students are like, at which point they can compare to students from peer schools. It's really flattering to attend all these school events at which guests from the community (judges, attorneys, etc.) speak with such excitement and high-praise for UCI and its students. They expect a lot from us, and we look forward to impressing them!

Also, Dean Chemerinsky and the rest of the staff is always working tirelessly to spread our name across the country. We've made a huge name for ourselves in virtually no time.

lawandi wrote:Is there any way for me to get involved with women's law/ feminist jurisprudence/ family law/ gay marriage litigation at UCI? I see there's a Women's Law Club, but there's no Women's Law Review or Family Law Clinic.

Also, how realistic is it for me to potentially start one of the above?

Last, how likely is it that I'll get into Vista del Campo housing? I'm a swimmer, so I would love to live somewhere with a pool (and in unit laundry machines!!)

I'm very impressed with the way in which the students have taken serious initiative in working both together and independently to establish and develop groups on campus. I haven't heard much from the Family Law arena, but LGBT and Woman's issues seem well-represented. There's no law review for any specialized area at the moment, because the creation and maintenance of any law review is a serious, serious process, and we're just too young to have more than one law review at the moment. It's therefore very difficult to begin a new law review, but there's absolutely no reason why you couldn't try to do so if you're totally committed to it! The school is very supportive of such initiative and confidence.

Clinics are similarly difficult to establish, and it's much more faculty/administration-guided, anyways, if I'm not mistaken. I believe we have to get the proper supervising faculty, funding, etc. But again, this is all in the works. We recently hired Yale law professor Robert Solomon, director of clinical studies at Yale, to lead a community and economic development clinic at UCI. By next year we should also have an immigration clinic and environmental law clinic.

I think Vista del Campo housing is pretty easy to get so long as you don't mind living in a two-bedroom (one-bedrooms seem very hard to get).

ViP wrote:

lawandi wrote:Is there any way for me to get involved with women's law/ feminist jurisprudence/ family law/ gay marriage litigation at UCI? I see there's a Women's Law Club, but there's no Women's Law Review or Family Law Clinic.

Also, how realistic is it for me to potentially start one of the above?

Last, how likely is it that I'll get into Vista del Campo housing? I'm a swimmer, so I would love to live somewhere with a pool (and in unit laundry machines!!)

I'm very impressed with the way in which the students have taken serious initiative in working both together and independently to establish and develop groups on campus. I haven't heard much from the Family Law arena, but LGBT and Woman's issues seem well-represented. There's no law review for any specialized area at the moment, because the creation and maintenance of any law review is a serious, serious process, and we're just too young to have more than one law review at the moment. It's therefore very difficult to begin a new law review, but there's absolutely no reason why you couldn't try to do so if you're totally committed to it! The school is very supportive of such initiative and confidence.

Clinics are similarly difficult to establish, and it's much more faculty/administration-guided, anyways, if I'm not mistaken. I believe we have to get the proper supervising faculty, funding, etc. But again, this is all in the works. We recently hired Yale law professor Robert Solomon, director of clinical studies at Yale, to lead a community and economic development clinic at UCI. By next year we should also have an immigration clinic and environmental law clinic.

I think Vista del Campo housing is pretty easy to get so long as you don't mind living in a two-bedroom (one-bedrooms seem very hard to get).

Thanks for the reply! I understand that clinics are hard to establish, but I'm sure I can find a clinic externally (with the help of profs) that specialize in my interests.

And I do want a one-bedroom. That's unfortunate that they're hard to come by

lawandi wrote:Is there any way for me to get involved with women's law/ feminist jurisprudence/ family law/ gay marriage litigation at UCI? I see there's a Women's Law Club, but there's no Women's Law Review or Family Law Clinic.

Also, how realistic is it for me to potentially start one of the above?

Last, how likely is it that I'll get into Vista del Campo housing? I'm a swimmer, so I would love to live somewhere with a pool (and in unit laundry machines!!)

I think it would be awesome to start a journal! I helped start a political science/international relations review while at my undergrad and it was an awesome experience. We'll definitely be around while they start other journals, so it will be awesome to be involved and help to mold them. I think a gender issues or sexual orientation journal would be awesome. I think there is only one completely student-run law journal on sexual orientation in the country (Tulane), so it would be awesome to start a journal that would be unique.

Just because I'm nosy, how did coffee with the dean this month go? Did he share anything cool?

Not a 1L, but a former undergrad from UCI that can give some insight on non-law school specific questions. IMO VdC is overpriced. The amenities are nice, but the facilities just pale in comparison to the UCI Anteater Recreation Center, which is accessible by all UCI students. The VdC pool is not very big. Serious swimmers would be better served using the ARC pool. Verano Place and Palo Verde are both within walking distance to the ARC, and are much more affordable.

jck4487 wrote:

lawandi wrote:Is there any way for me to get involved with women's law/ feminist jurisprudence/ family law/ gay marriage litigation at UCI? I see there's a Women's Law Club, but there's no Women's Law Review or Family Law Clinic.

Also, how realistic is it for me to potentially start one of the above?

Last, how likely is it that I'll get into Vista del Campo housing? I'm a swimmer, so I would love to live somewhere with a pool (and in unit laundry machines!!)

I think it would be awesome to start a journal! I helped start a political science/international relations review while at my undergrad and it was an awesome experience. We'll definitely be around while they start other journals, so it will be awesome to be involved and help to mold them. I think a gender issues or sexual orientation journal would be awesome. I think there is only one completely student-run law journal on sexual orientation in the country (Tulane), so it would be awesome to start a journal that would be unique.

If it all works out where we're at UCI, I'm very interested in looking into new journal options. Yes, it'll be ridiculously hard to start one up, I'm sure, but if we're really supposed to be creating the law school we want, then I will. Focusing on gender and sexuality is crucial for me, so we might have to take a Field of Dreams approach and think, "if you build it, they will come." Also, I think Tulane is the only truly specialized journal for sexuality, but there are others that look at sexuality/gender/social justice, etc: http://lawlib.wlu.edu/lj/index.aspx (filter out based on Gender to see the specialized list).

lfp wrote:

jck4487 wrote:

lawandi wrote:Is there any way for me to get involved with women's law/ feminist jurisprudence/ family law/ gay marriage litigation at UCI? I see there's a Women's Law Club, but there's no Women's Law Review or Family Law Clinic.

Also, how realistic is it for me to potentially start one of the above?

Last, how likely is it that I'll get into Vista del Campo housing? I'm a swimmer, so I would love to live somewhere with a pool (and in unit laundry machines!!)

I think it would be awesome to start a journal! I helped start a political science/international relations review while at my undergrad and it was an awesome experience. We'll definitely be around while they start other journals, so it will be awesome to be involved and help to mold them. I think a gender issues or sexual orientation journal would be awesome. I think there is only one completely student-run law journal on sexual orientation in the country (Tulane), so it would be awesome to start a journal that would be unique.

If it all works out where we're at UCI, I'm very interested in looking into new journal options. Yes, it'll be ridiculously hard to start one up, I'm sure, but if we're really supposed to be creating the law school we want, then I will. Focusing on gender and sexuality is crucial for me, so we might have to take a Field of Dreams approach and think, "if you build it, they will come." Also, I think Tulane is the only truly specialized journal for sexuality, but there are others that look at sexuality/gender/social justice, etc: http://lawlib.wlu.edu/lj/index.aspx (filter out based on Gender to see the specialized list).

Ya, exactly. For example, UCLA has an awesome Women's Law Journal. I'm so glad there are a few people out there that are already excited about this idea

How realistic is it to attend UC Irvine specifically with a career in big law firms in mind? Other posters have mentioned many of UC Irvine's placements are in public law.

Can you say more about the day-to-day life of a 1L? (Really mundane things, like what time classes meet [is there a link to a schedule of classes?], typical # of hours studying, hell during exam periods?, how does grading work? do many [any?] students have jobs? time for any kind of social life?, campus life, etc.). And, would you talk about the differences between UCI's curriculum and that of traditional law schools beyond what we can find on the website? (any sense of what it really means not to have contracts, torts, etc.?)

I know that's a lot, so addressing any of these questions would be appreciated!

Metaread wrote:How realistic is it to attend UC Irvine specifically with a career in big law firms in mind? Other posters have mentioned many of UC Irvine's placements are in public law.

Many students are interested in public interest, but many students are also primarily interested in firm work. The school definitely promotes public interest work, but students who want firm work are obviously equally supported and have the same advantages as other UCI students with regard to our incredibly well-connected and established faculty.

Anyways, the most pertinent info I can give you is written in this December 2010 article:
http://law.uci.edu/pdf/djournal_120710.pdf

By December 2010, 19 2Ls had received firm offers through OCI, and 14 had accepted offers through applying directly to firms.

"Employers who made offers to UC Irvine students through the on-campus interview process include Jones Day; O'Melveny & Meyers; Morrison & Foerster; Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton; Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher; and Crowell & Moring, among other national and regional firms . . . .

"Bob Williams, the firmwide recruiting partner at Sheppard Mullin, said the school's accreditation status had no bearing on their decision to hire from UC Irvine. "I think it would be kind of arrogant of an employer not to take notice of that school," Williams said. "This is a group of students who certainly are not less qualified than other groups." Williams said the start-up nature of the school in some ways gives the students more marketable skills, because they have to launch programs like the law review from scratch without any institutionalized guidance."

I have some questions for UCI Law students:

1) In general, how do students feel about going to a brand new law school? Are they anxious that they have no alumni network to rely on? And while there certainly is a lot of hype, what are their feelings toward the yet-to-be-established reputation?

FWIW, I find the idea of going to a new school quite appealing, but obviously not without reservations. It's hard to ignore the prospect of being one of the first to establish a tradition at what will no doubt be a great school, but there's always that risk.

2) What fields would you say the school is trying to emphasize? In terms of faculty, programs, etc., what do you think will be the school's strengths? (i.e., environmental, international, health, IP, etc.)

Scout2 wrote:Can you say more about the day-to-day life of a 1L? (Really mundane things, like what time classes meet [is there a link to a schedule of classes?], typical # of hours studying, hell during exam periods?, how does grading work? do many [any?] students have jobs? time for any kind of social life?, campus life, etc.). And, would you talk about the differences between UCI's curriculum and that of traditional law schools beyond what we can find on the website? (any sense of what it really means not to have contracts, torts, etc.?)

I know that's a lot, so addressing any of these questions would be appreciated!

For 1Ls, the earliest classes start at 8:30, and that's only 2 or 3 times per week. Here's the 1L curriculum: http://www.law.uci.edu/registrar/curriculum.html

The fancy names for our classes are meant to note the real-life analytical skills that UCI strives to emphasize in the classroom. In other words, UCI teaches general skills (e.g. statutory analysis, procedural analysis, etc.) through the lens of different fields (e.g. Criminal Law, Civil Procedure, etc.). Ultimately, you're still learning good ol' crim and civ pro, only ostensibly from a different approach.

Students spend plenty of time studying, but that's the reality of law school. Finals are stressful times, but I like to think UCI fosters a slightly more cooperative, supportive, less competitive environment than other schools. After all, that's a primary reason many students chose to attend UCI over other highly ranked schools. Along similar lines, students seem to reach a point where they'd rather save a bit of social life/fun-on-the-side/happiness rather than study for that extra hour or two. Grading is standard with a 3.3 median.

ku1185 wrote:I have some questions for UCI Law students:

1) In general, how do students feel about going to a brand new law school? Are they anxious that they have no alumni network to rely on? And while there certainly is a lot of hype, what are their feelings toward the yet-to-be-established reputation?

FWIW, I find the idea of going to a new school quite appealing, but obviously not without reservations. It's hard to ignore the prospect of being one of the first to establish a tradition at what will no doubt be a great school, but there's always that risk.

2) What fields would you say the school is trying to emphasize? In terms of faculty, programs, etc., what do you think will be the school's strengths? (i.e., environmental, international, health, IP, etc.)

1) As I'm sure you know, this is one of the primary reasons students chose to attend UCI. Students at the school are not concerned about the lack of alumni, because we knew of that reality before matriculating. The school really stresses its commitment to the students' and program's success, and I think students are comforted by that. Also, our reputation seems to be spreading like wildfire and the local community can't stop showering us with praise, encouragement, and positive attention.

2) I think it's too early to say. We have an incredible, wide-ranging faculty, but personally I think we're especially well-equipped in the areas of IP and Environmental Law. Also, any school led (and taught) by Dean Chemerinsky is bound to have a command of constitutional issues. Having said that, it's just too early to say which in which areas UCI will particularly shine.

UCI is small, for sure. And while I like the idea of really getting to know everyone in my program and developing that close-knit community, what are the drawbacks of the size of UCI? Also, are most students right out of undergrad, or does the population lean toward those with some work/life experience pre-law school? Thanks again for doing this!

Thank you for doing this ViP. I just asked this on the UC Irvine applicants page before I realized you were taking questions. I read on my scholarship award that it comes with a 3.0 gpa stipulation. Do you know what percentage of students receive less than a 3.0 based on Irvine's curve, or have you heard of anyone losing their scholarship at UCI? thank you in advance for answering this.

lfp wrote:UCI is small, for sure. And while I like the idea of really getting to know everyone in my program and developing that close-knit community, what are the drawbacks of the size of UCI? Also, are most students right out of undergrad, or does the population lean toward those with some work/life experience pre-law school? Thanks again for doing this!

Personally, I don't think there are any drawbacks in terms of UCI's small class-sizes. In terms of the UCI Law community being small as a whole, I suppose a possible drawback is the human capital generally necessary to start/maintain projects and programs like law reviews. On the other hand, we all know each other so well that I think we work especially well together.

Very few students entered UCI directly from undergrad. Many students took 1 or 2 years off, and still many others have a few years of work and grad school experience. Not sure the percentages.

somewherewarm wrote:Thank you for doing this ViP. I just asked this on the UC Irvine applicants page before I realized you were taking questions. I read on my scholarship award that it comes with a 3.0 gpa stipulation. Do you know what percentage of students receive less than a 3.0 based on Irvine's curve, or have you heard of anyone losing their scholarship at UCI? thank you in advance for answering this.

Hmm, to be honest I really don't know the answer to this. If there's a 3.0 requirement, I certainly didn't know about it (or perhaps it doesn't apply to my class?). I have no idea what percentage of students receive less than a 3.0, and I certainly haven't heard of anyone losing his/her scholarship. You may want to talk to the admin office about this.

Hey everyone,

I am also a 1L at UC Irvine School of Law. Hopefully I can offer another perspective for you to consider so that you may get a more vivid picture of what the school is like. After reading some of the other school's discussions, I'm convinced that many (but definitely not all) simply advertise their school rather than provide a clear picture. Hopefully, I will be able to do as great of a job as my classmate has been doing and provide a clearer picture of the school. I hope to help you on your school decision, whether or not you choose UC Irvine (but I hope you do choose UCI!), because I'd much rather you choose a place that you get good vibes from than convince you with masterful trickery and publicity.