10 Reasons Why You Should Not Go to HLS Forum

[rooster]

So I was attempting to refill my coffee cup in Pound today and was troubled to find that, of the four coffee dispensers there, every one was empty. Thus, the one reason why anyone should go to HLS evaporated. For the benefit of 0Ls, allow me to list ten reasons why you SHOULD NOT go to HLS:

1. Culture of barely concealed viciousness: That this culture is a product of the institution, and not the people who come here, can be seen from the gradual transformation that one witnesses throughout 1L year. People who came in as normal, friendly people are ground down by a culture that basically encourages people to be assholes. By 2L year, a large portion of the students, distressed at the type of behavior the school rewards, basically disconnect from the school and bide their time till graduation. The result is that the culture of the school becomes even more vicious, as the people who remain connected are primarily the ones who buy into that culture.

2. Delegated authority: Because the school is so large, and the faculty and administration so aloof, the administration delegates authority to the most obnoxious and toolish 2Ls and 3Ls to perform various tasks. Thus, LRW will be co-taught by a non-tenure track faculty members and some "BSAs," 2Ls and 3Ls whose only distinction is that they are good at Bluebooking, but not quite good enough to get on law review. These people then lord their minimal power over a crew of nervous 1Ls like a bunch of middle manager drones with blackberry belt clips. In this way, HLS makes its intent to instill in its students a culture of corporate backstabbing clear.

3. Crappy teaching: It is shocking how crappy the professors here are at teaching. They often do not seem to understand what they are teaching. Aside from this general incompetence, professors consistently choose one or two favorites, on whom they call constantly while ignoring the rest of the class. This general lousiness might be justified if they were extraordinarily brilliant academics. Though HLS has some of these, however, it also has a number of faculty members whose only significant accomplishment seems to be that they got good grades--at HLS.

4. Dysfunctional "grading" policy: The grading policy has changed about a half a dozen times in the last few months. Worse, the administration is ridiculously dishonest in the way it pursues these changes. Dean Kagan, when initially describing the proposed H/P policy, said that there would no longer be graduation honors; she lied. Recently the school made a series of changes to the policy right during the midst of EIP, without informing students of the changes at all--the only way anyone knew was by reading the online student handbook.

5. Crappy IT: Printers don't print. Computers don't compute. Everyone at HLS has like five different things that are simultaneously called "usernames" and require corresponding passwords. Whenever you have to login to some HLS website that asks simply for a "username," you have to try out several of your usernames to see which one it is asking for. When you are trying to select courses, you often have to wait in an online "queue" that can last up to an hour, and if you do not select your courses within a few minutes of reaching the front of the queue, you are thrown to the back of the queue again. You cannot order your transcript online, even if you just want to pick it up on campus. Instead, you have to order from some stupid third party in Virginia to whom HLS has outsourced the administration of its transcripts. In order to request a transcript from this Virginia outfit, you actually have to print a letter authorizing them to release your transcript, sign the letter, and then either fax it or scan it and send it to this third party, who then tells HLS to give you your transcript. It is hard to see why someone who lives a ten minute walk from HLS should have to go through a Virginia corporation to get her damn transcript.

6. Crappy OPIA/OCS: They don't know what they are doing, but talk as though they did. If you listen to them, you will end up not trying for things that you actually have a strong chance of getting.

7. Lack of choice in curriculum: In your first year, you only get to choose two courses. One of these "choices," moreover, one must be one of seven international law courses, so if you, like many law students, want to take a course that is not a huge, eighty person socratic class, this international law course will not be it. Your other choice is purportedly free, but, because your schedule is largely filled up with required courses, you really only have a choice of about ten. And if you want a small course, you probably won't get one, since these fill up very quickly.

8. Culture of hierarchy: Ever notice how, as soon as anyone from HLS becomes prominent, professors immediately crawl out of the woodwork to proclaim them the "Best student they ever taught at HLS"? Like a person suffering from Tourette's, HLS seemingly cannot help but fall back into its old habit of measuring everyone against everyone else. Every time someone from HLS becomes prominent, I bet every member of the faculty at HLS pours through his class list from past years to see whether the person was ever in his class. Then, if the professor finds that the person was in his class, though he does not remember him at all (because he is a typical HLS prof), he immediately proclaims that student "the best he ever taught"!

9. Horrible administration: The HLS administration is unbelievably bad at everything it does. Case in point: The "shopping period" only lasts a week, which is hardly enough time to get a sense of whether you actually want to stay in a class. What is worse, they don't even tell you when the shopping period ends. Instead, the law school's official calendar indicated that it ended on one day. However, several days before this day, in the late afternoon, the administration sent out an email indicating that they had moved up the deadline, and that all drops or adds should be completed by midnight that evening. In my time at HLS, I have encountered numerous situations where HLS moves around deadlines for various things, often without telling anyone, or where HLS has two different deadlines for something on different parts of its website. If you miss one of these two deadlines because you relied on the other, then they'll get all "rule of law" about it: "If we make an exception for you, we would have to make an exception for everyone!"

10. Ugly buildings: HLS surely owns a disproportionate share of the ugliest academic buildings in the country. Pound Hall, where most of your classes will be, looks like a drab suburban office park. Gropius was made a historical landmark to preserve its resplendent ugliness for future generations.

[bk1]

Ah yep.

[paratactical]

[Kochel]

Congratulations! It appears you have already learned the one thing that HLS actually teaches--namely, that HLS sucks.

Now consider the facts that as a current student, you are actually the beneficiary of the long march of progress at HLS, and that for 100+ years, every generation at HLS has had it better than the previous one. I'm sure that by the year 2100 the school will have evolved into a truly humane institution that actually equips students to become great lawyers. For now, the diploma will have to suffice.

--20th century HLS grad

[D-ROCCA]

This is the kind of post I'd imagine the person who holds the worst grades in his/her section to put on TLS.

[paratactical]

This is the kind of post I'd imagine the person who holds the worst grades in his/her section to put on TLS.

It would make a great first post at JDU too.

[D-ROCCA]

Indeed it would. I think it shows that there are just some instances where law school isn't the right fit-and likely shows that law isn't really the best career path for someone. I mean if you're going to hate on the "culture of hierarchy", delegated authority, and lack of quality coffee, practicing law may not be the best career pathway for you.

[JazzOne]

This is exactly why I didn't transfer to Harvard. I can't stand ugly architecture.

[albusdumbledore]

Indeed it would. I think it shows that there are just some instances where law school isn't the right fit-and likely shows that law isn't really the best career path for someone. I mean if you're going to hate on the "culture of hierarchy", delegated authority, and lack of quality coffee, practicing law may not be the best career pathway for you.

Why is this inevitably the go to answer on TLS? "Don't worry, obviously there is something wrong with this person, and that's why he/she hates HLS, didn't get a job, and should /self". Ridiculous. Sorry, but I've seen a few posts like this about HLS. I can't say the same about Michigan or UVA.

[09042014]

Just because the school is hard to get into and has fabulous job opportunities afterward doesn't mean the administration doesn't suck balls.

[bk1]

Just because the school is hard to get into and has fabulous job opportunities afterward doesn't mean the administration doesn't suck balls.

It also doesn't mean that's a reason you should not go to HLS.

[09042014]

Just because the school is hard to get into and has fabulous job opportunities afterward doesn't mean the administration doesn't suck balls.

It also doesn't mean that's a reason you should not go to HLS.

True. But I'd go Stanford over Harvard. And I'd definitely take a fullride at t14, or half ride at T6 over HLS.

[D-ROCCA]

Why would HLS be the juggernaut that it is if it was filled with people that didn't succeed. Sorry, I have a tough time believing that one poster should change my thoughts on a law school that has been near the pinnacle of legal education for decades. Also, you'll see I actually didn't make any judgments about the person other than how that person fit in at HLS, which is pretty clear from the OP. I didn't comment on his/her future job opportunities, and didn't recommend suicide.

What I said was certainly not ridiculous, and Dumbledore dies in book 6, so GTFO.

[AssociateX]

This is the kind of post I'd imagine the person who holds the worst grades in his/her section to put on TLS.

It would make a great first post at JDU too.

Already done.

Also would add that my college roommate graduated from another Harvard graduate program this year and completely morphed into a total douchebag. This is a girl I used to go bar hopping with and stay up until 3 am talking about everything under the sun. Now almost 12 years later, her personality has changed into some uptight, elitist, competitive beyotch that I question how on earth I was ever friends, much less roommates, with her. I can't comment on anything else but I agree that the Student Body/Culture of the school remains extremely competitive, backstabbing and overall cold.

[09042014]

Why would HLS be the juggernaut that it is if it was filled with people that didn't succeed. Sorry, I have a tough time believing that one poster should change my thoughts on a law school that has been near the pinnacle of legal education for decades. Also, you'll see I actually didn't make any judgments about the person other than how that person fit in at HLS, which is pretty clear from the OP. I didn't comment on his/her future job opportunities, and didn't recommend suicide.

What I said was certainly not ridiculous, and Dumbledore dies in book 6, so GTFO.

The OP doesn't say it is filled with people who didn't succeed.

It basically says
1) The culture there sucks
2) The admin are idiots (and he backed it up with solid reasoning)
3) The faculty aren't great teachers (and they really aren't hired for teaching ability)

[D-ROCCA]

Similarly, I would add that I gained 25 pounds and went bald. Also, my girlfriend repeatedly cheated on me with my best friend, and I'm now clinically depressed. All because of that goddamn architecture and those evil administrators.

[rooster]

This is the kind of post I'd imagine the person who holds the worst grades in his/her section to put on TLS.

Are you familiar with the notion of an ad hominem attack? Your remark embodies just the culture of viciousness that I am talking about. I hope that you don't go to HLS, but would not be surprised if you do. I should not even have to dignify this with a response, but I assure you that, whatever you may think about my suitability for the legal profession, my professors (at least in their anonymous grading capacity), as well as numerous firms, do not agree with you--despite my talk of a "culture of hierarchy." What exactly prevents someone who is good at law from talking about a "culture of hierarchy?" Two things have become clear from my experience at HLS: 1) I enjoy the law; 2) HLS fails as an educational institution.

I am trying to help 0Ls who face a choice like I did. Your baseless accusations are not useful to them, and don't affect me at all.

[albusdumbledore]

This is the kind of post I'd imagine the person who holds the worst grades in his/her section to put on TLS.

Why would HLS be the juggernaut that it is if it was filled with people that didn't succeed. Sorry, I have a tough time believing that one poster should change my thoughts on a law school that has been near the pinnacle of legal education for decades. Also, you'll see I actually didn't make any judgments about the person other than how that person fit in at HLS, which is pretty clear from the OP. I didn't comment on his/her future job opportunities, and didn't recommend suicide.

What I said was certainly not ridiculous, and Dumbledore dies in book 6, so GTFO.

Are you really going to sit here and claim that you saying this is the type of person who holds the worst grade in his/her section and also claim that isn't passing a judgement on the OP? There wasn't a single thing in the first post that could have given any indication as to his/her grades. It was all speculation on your part.

[D-ROCCA]

The OP doesn't say it is filled with people who didn't succeed.

It sure doesn't-I was talking to Albus.

People are competitive, teachers are busy, and printers don't work. I have very little sympathy. You're at HLS-get good grades and make it rain.

[bk1]

Are you familiar with the notion of an ad hominem attack? Your remark embodies just the culture of viciousness that I am talking about.

--ImageRemoved--

[09042014]

The OP doesn't say it is filled with people who didn't succeed.

It sure doesn't-I was talking to Albus.

People are competitive, teachers are busy, and printers don't work. I have very little sympathy. You're at HLS-get good grades and make it rain.

Who requires your sympathy? Someone lists problems with Harvard, and you immediately proclaim they must just be poor students.

And now you say it doesn't matter if Harvard sucks, you get a job.

Why are you even posting?

[D-ROCCA]

This is the kind of post I'd imagine the person who holds the worst grades in his/her section to put on TLS.

Are you familiar with the notion of an ad hominem attack? Your remark embodies just the culture of viciousness that I am talking about. I hope that you don't go to HLS, but would not be surprised if you do. I should not even have to dignify this with a response, but I assure you that, whatever you may think about my suitability for the legal profession, my professors (at least in their anonymous grading capacity), as well as numerous firms, do not agree with you--despite my talk of a "culture of hierarchy." What exactly prevents someone who is good at law from talking about a "culture of hierarchy?" Two things have become clear from my experience at HLS: 1) I enjoy the law; 2) HLS fails as an educational institution.

I am trying to help 0Ls who face a choice like I did. Your baseless accusations are not useful to them, and don't affect me at all.

Alas, I am familiar with an ad hominem attack, and I'm not even in law school yet! Yes, I want to go to HLS, and I probably will. You have all the opportunity in the world at a great legal institution, and you came on TLS trying to make excuses for why you are unhappy with law school. Telling 0Ls not to go to Harvard because it is competitive and lacks proper printing facilities, among other things, is dumb. For the vast majority of people (ie people who don't get into Yale), if they get accepted at HLS, they should go.

[09042014]

This is the kind of post I'd imagine the person who holds the worst grades in his/her section to put on TLS.

Are you familiar with the notion of an ad hominem attack? Your remark embodies just the culture of viciousness that I am talking about. I hope that you don't go to HLS, but would not be surprised if you do. I should not even have to dignify this with a response, but I assure you that, whatever you may think about my suitability for the legal profession, my professors (at least in their anonymous grading capacity), as well as numerous firms, do not agree with you--despite my talk of a "culture of hierarchy." What exactly prevents someone who is good at law from talking about a "culture of hierarchy?" Two things have become clear from my experience at HLS: 1) I enjoy the law; 2) HLS fails as an educational institution.

I am trying to help 0Ls who face a choice like I did. Your baseless accusations are not useful to them, and don't affect me at all.

Alas, I am familiar with an ad hominem attack, and I'm not even in law school yet! Yes, I want to go to HLS, and I probably will. You have all the opportunity in the world at a great legal institution, and you came on TLS trying to make excuses for why you are unhappy with law school. Telling 0Ls not to go to Harvard because it is competitive and lacks proper printing facilities, among other things, is dumb. For the vast majority of people (ie people who don't get into Yale), if they get accepted at HLS, they should go.

ITT D-Rocca is butthurt because someone dares to dirty his dreams.

[12262010]

looks like you shouldn't go to CLS either.

[D-ROCCA]

DF

Harvard doesn't suck, I never said it did. I said it's stupid to say Harvard sucks, which is what OP said.
I post here, like you do (though not nearly as much), because I have nothing better to do.

Also, the butthurt comment was insensitive at best, homophobic at worst.
BTW my dreams are barely dirtied, I'm the guy who's going to be your boss in 10 years asshole.