NYU 2L Taking Questions Forum

[nyu2012]

Hey-

It's been a while since I've checked TLS (I think since pre-law/beginning of 1L year) but I do remember appreciating the advice people posted.

I'm a 2L at NYU. Roughly top 10% grades and did well at EIW. I don't think I'm that smart and my resume is fairly bland compared to some of the amazing people in law school - ultimately I think I just did a bunch of things right.

Would be happy to answer questions.

[acadec]

Alright....which things did you do right?

[solidsnake]

On a scale of 1-10, how sexy would you say the avg transfer student is? Rate guys and girls.

[capitalacq]

hey, thanks for taking the time to answer a few questions!

I'm considering applying this cycle, but I'm not sure how my diversity statement about the chronic depression I've faced since high school will affect how the adcomms view the one semester where I had to get a medical withdrawal because I was hospitalized after a suicide attempt.

Anyway, I'm wondering how you'd rate the quality of life and quality of school at work? As I've said, I've faced problems with depression and I remember hearing that NYU is place where a lot of students commit suicide, so do you think it would be pretty safe for me (how many classmates of yours have committed suicide?)

I just want to make sure I don't kill myself trying to get in if I won't enjoy it there [no pun intended!]

[luthersloan]

There are no girls in the transfer class. Okay, there are like 2.

[clintonius]

hey, thanks for taking the time to answer a few questions!

I'm considering applying this cycle, but I'm not sure how my diversity statement about the chronic depression I've faced since high school will affect how the adcomms view the one semester where I had to get a medical withdrawal because I was hospitalized after a suicide attempt.

Anyway, I'm wondering how you'd rate the quality of life and quality of school at work? As I've said, I've faced problems with depression and I remember hearing that NYU is place where a lot of students commit suicide, so do you think it would be pretty safe for me (how many classmates of yours have committed suicide?)

I just want to make sure I don't kill myself trying to get in if I won't enjoy it there [no pun intended!]

I lol'd. In the library. Well played.

Anyways, pulling top 10% is highly enviable. What worked for you? Mind if I ask which profs you had last year, and for which classes? Thanks for taking the time to answer questions.

[nyu2012]

Hey!

Here are some general things that I think I did that helped me get good grades and good job offers:
- I DID NOT study like crazy, but I was an effective studier. I went to class and did not use G-chat or surf the web. I paid attention to what the professor and other students had to say. By paying attention, I was able to discern when important things were said, and I think I took more effective notes than A) people who did not come to class or did not pay attention and B) people who wrote down everything.
- I DID NOT do study groups (except during finals, when I would get together to go over practice exam answers). Study groups are good for some people, but I found them to be a waste of time. The efficiency gap between a group v. a single person is huge - and if you have serious questions, professors are generally the people with the right answers. I usually e-mailed professors with a list of questions that came up during outlining, and they were always great about responding.
- I DID start outlining early. I wouldn't say this is a must, but for me it definitely helped because I am not the type of person who can cram for 14 hours straight during finals. Even during finals, I was only studying for about 8 hours a day, with plenty of breaks and full nights' sleep.
- I DID take practice exams. I waited until I was finished outlining, usually within 1 week of the exam, to begin taking practice exams. But I found them to be pretty helpful in figuring out what types of questions the professor asks.

In terms of job search, I'm sure my grades helped a lot, but I think there is also a level of strategy. If anyone has specific questions about that, let me know and I can go into more detail.

[nyu2012]

In terms of quality of life, I have 2 points:
- Law school itself is pretty stressful - grades are especially important in this economy (hate to say it) and you definitely have to work hard. But working for a couple years before coming helped put things into perspective. Law school (for me) has not been nearly as stressful as having a real job.
- Among law schools, I believe the consensus is that NYU has a pretty high quality of life. Most of the other students here have very active social lives and our Thursday night SBA parties are usually very well attended. People here are probably a little more laid back and a little less competitive than our peers, but that is just my impression based on anecdotes.

I think the important thing about enjoying law school is finding balance. Grades are important, but so are getting to know your classmates and maintaining an outside life where you do not talk about class/work. NYU tends to foster that experience because of it's fantastic location, because there is so much diversity in what people want to do (firms v. public interest, etc.) and because it tends to draw people who are less "gunnerish" (at least compared to its peer schools, Columbia and Chicago).

[lawschoollll]

Where are you working?

[facetious]

Hey!

Here are some general things that I think I did that helped me get good grades and good job offers:
- I DID NOT study like crazy, but I was an effective studier. I went to class and did not use G-chat or surf the web. I paid attention to what the professor and other students had to say. By paying attention, I was able to discern when important things were said, and I think I took more effective notes than A) people who did not come to class or did not pay attention and B) people who wrote down everything.
- I DID NOT do study groups (except during finals, when I would get together to go over practice exam answers). Study groups are good for some people, but I found them to be a waste of time. The efficiency gap between a group v. a single person is huge - and if you have serious questions, professors are generally the people with the right answers. I usually e-mailed professors with a list of questions that came up during outlining, and they were always great about responding.
- I DID start outlining early. I wouldn't say this is a must, but for me it definitely helped because I am not the type of person who can cram for 14 hours straight during finals. Even during finals, I was only studying for about 8 hours a day, with plenty of breaks and full nights' sleep.
- I DID take practice exams. I waited until I was finished outlining, usually within 1 week of the exam, to begin taking practice exams. But I found them to be pretty helpful in figuring out what types of questions the professor asks.

In terms of job search, I'm sure my grades helped a lot, but I think there is also a level of strategy. If anyone has specific questions about that, let me know and I can go into more detail.

Even though I didn't ask (clintonious beat me to it), thanks so much for this answer. It's certainly providing some degree of comfort to how I've approached 1L thus far.

If you don't mind, would you talk a bit about your 1L job search/apps, what you did 1L summer, and EIW prep (yes, I know its early...). Thanks again for taking questions and for your triumphant return to TLS.

[ZXCVBNM]

What are the approximate GPA's for top 10%, 25%, top third, top half? Thanks!

[cigrainger]

Do you have any experience with the PILC? Are its programs like the Leaders in Public Interest Series well attended?

Did you use the guaranteed summer funding and if so, was it an easy process?

Have you taken part in a clinic? If so, which one? Was it your first choice?

How about course selection -- did you get all the classes you wanted?

Thanks for this!

[nyu2012]

1L job search requires a lot of initiative. Unlike EIW, there is no structure and no one there to tell you what you need to do when. You just have to get on yourself to get things done early. With that said, I would not do anything before you are finished with finals. Grades are important and you will not be "behind" in the job search if you wait to get applications out over winter break. Do not stress about this until after finals are over!

I did not even think about applying for jobs until winter break. Over break, I set aside 3-4 days to work on researching jobs, crafting resumes and cover letters, and applying to jobs. PILC has some handy links to job databases (e.g. PSLawNet), but I also scoured the internet on my own. I think I probably sent about 25 applications over winter break, each with a unique cover letter. A lot of places will want a transcript with your application materials. The problem is, grades don't usually come out until mid-January at the earliest. To circumvent this, I sent my "unofficial transcript" downloaded from Albert without grades, noting that I would update them when my grades were released. This is actually pretty nice because it gives you an excuse to "remind" employers of your existence in the event you do not hear anything.

I ultimately received several offers and accepted a fairly prestigious federal government internship. What really helped was having an offer early. Even though I did not love the offer that I got, I was able to use it as an opportunity to follow up with places that I really liked. I ended up getting several last-minute interviews scheduled to accommodate my pending deadline. One of those interviews ended up being my summer job.

I know that NYU also does spring OCI and a lot of my friends got jobs that way. I did not participate in OCI because I accepted my offer before it began, so I cannot be of much help in that area. One thing I will say - DO NOT BANK ON OCI. Apply everywhere by early January.

In terms of law firms, I know nothing about this because I knew that I wanted to do a public interest internship my 1L summer. I know a few people who landed BigLaw gigs as 1Ls, but at least for my class, it was a total crapshoot.

[nyu2012]

For the sake of anonymity, I prefer not to divulge where I am working next summer. I participated in EIW and received several offers, most of which were V15. I recently accepted an offer (yay) and am excited to finally get out of debt.

In terms of preparing for EIW, I would say:
1. Figure out where geographically you want to live - this is the most important factor in your decision.
2. Learn about different practice areas - at least be able to generally understand the difference between M&A, capital markets, litigation, etc. (You do NOT need to know which ones of those areas you want to work in - it is perfectly fine to want to try something before committing to it.)

Beyond that, I would just recommend the traditional interview prep, which you should not be worried about until next summer. Do not worry yet!

[nyu2012]

Do you have any experience with the PILC? Are its programs like the Leaders in Public Interest Series well attended?

PILC requires students to go to 4 over the course of the year in order to receive PILC summer funding, so the events are always packed. I am not sure what percentage of students go because they are interested and what percentage go because they have to, but the speakers are usually great and I've always enjoyed going. In terms of the PILC office, I have heard mixed reviews. Because I am going to a firm, I have not worked too extensively with the PILC counselors beyond finding and funding my 1L summer job.

Did you use the guaranteed summer funding and if so, was it an easy process?

I did use the guaranteed summer funding. Last year, we received $4500 after 1L (would have been $6500 after 2L). The process was very easy. I think we were required to attend 4 Leaders in Public Interest Series events over the course of the entire year, do something (e.g. canvassing, a committee) for the PILC Auction, attend/help out at the PILC Auction, fill out some random forms and evaluations, and get a job by the end of March. There is a participant tracker that keeps tabs on your progress toward fulfilling all of the requirements. Although the requirements seem kind of tedious, I did not find it to be a burden at all.

Have you taken part in a clinic? If so, which one? Was it your first choice?

I actually did not apply for any clinics this year, but a lot of my friends did. I think most people got one of their top choices.

The reason I did not apply for a clinic is that I have heard that they are a lot more work than the number of hours that you get. As a 2L, I knew that I would be focusing on finding a job and writing my A-paper so I decided to wait until 3L year to do a clinic.

How about course selection -- did you get all the classes you wanted?

Course selection at NYU is kind of annoying, mostly due to the large size of our class. The good thing is that we get a broader range of choices. There are certain classes that will fill up very quickly - you should know which classes these are. For example, Con Law with Yoshino is extraordinarily popular and if you really want him for a particular semester, you might have to give up taking another popular class. But the vast, vast majority of classes are not that popular, so most people end up getting what they want.

The more annoying part of it is making sure, when you are scheduling, that no times conflict, no finals conflict, and that you end up with the right number of hours. It definitely takes a lot of tweaking, but you pick your courses over the summer so you will have plenty of time to think it through.

[nyu2012]

What are the approximate GPA's for top 10%, 25%, top third, top half? Thanks!

Honestly, I don't know.

Another posted stated that 3.67 is top 10% after 1L year. I do not think I can even conjecture to the other figures.

[BaiAilian2013]

What generally happens to the people at the bottom of the class? Any idea what kind of jobs they end up getting and how?

[nyu2012]

I'm not really sure. It's pretty faux pax to talk about grades at NYU so with the exception of people on law review and a few socially handicapped gunners, nobody really knows who has what grades.

I imagine there is probably a positive correlation b/w people with low grades and people without offers. I know a few people without offers. They are not losing hope yet. As more people start declining offers, firms can start picking people from the "hold" piles. I know people who have received offers fairly recently. If people are certain they have no offers, there are still options. We get emails on a regular basis about firms who are opening up new interview slots. I also know of people who are looking into public interest for 2L summer. Mass mail is also an option, although I imagine it may be a little late for that.

I think there are enough jobs out there for everyone at NYU to get something. I think the people who really screwed up are the ones who did not think through their strategies. I know people with good grades who struck out because they aimed at the wrong firms or the wrong markets. Just make sure think through the EIW process very strategically. One thing I strongly caution against doing is putting all of your eggs in a secondary market. NYC has the strongest legal market in the country right now and people who focused on NYC did better than people who did not. I also recommend against being gung ho about a particular practice area. Express an interest in one or some practice areas, but be flexible and open.

[BaiAilian2013]

Thanks!

[facetious]

Thanks!

[nyu2012]

No problem.

[lawschoollll]

Yes thanks for taking Qs dude.

Based on what you know, do you think the hypothetical NYU student at median who: bids conservatively; is an average interviewer; and bids exclusively in NYC would get an offer somewhere in the v100?

[DukeCornell]

Hey, how strong is your writing curriculum at NYU?

[nyu2012]

Yes thanks for taking Qs dude.

Based on what you know, do you think the hypothetical NYU student at median who: bids conservatively; is an average interviewer; and bids exclusively in NYC would get an offer somewhere in the v100?

At our "secret" meeting toward the end of 1L year, we found out that 70% of the c/o 2011 who participated in EIW got offers through EIW. (Obviously not all were V100, but I would venture that the vast majority were given that those are the firms w/ the biggest summer classes.) Keep in mind that this was c/o 2011 - this year's EIW must be better given that most firms are dramatically increasing class sizes for next summer. I imagine that next year will be better than this year (fingers crossed of course).

I know plenty of people who are below median with offers. I also know people who have great grades and struck out. So nothing is guaranteed, but I'd say, chances are you will be fine if you are at median and act very strategically.

[nyu2012]

Hey, how strong is your writing curriculum at NYU?

We have a lawyering program for 1Ls. Unlike a lot of schools, it does not just focus on research and writing. We also got to work on interviewing mock clients, performing mediations and negotiations, and even doing an oral argument in front of an actual judge. I liked that it brought us 1 step closer to finding the answer to "what do real lawyers do?" At the same time, I feel like it was a little more work than most other schools' traditional legal research and writing courses. The main problem is that the class is not graded, so most people slacked off hardcore, especially close to finals, so it's hard to say how much people actually got out of it.