WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions Forum

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
laanngo

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Post by laanngo » Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:56 am

blair.waldorf wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:53 pm
I don't know re: ties insensitivity in Houston. Austin is ties sensitive in part because there are just not that many SA spots and a lot of students want to work in Austin.

I didn't say UT is a better choice for TX (although it obviously is). I said if you're dead set on Austin, it's the *far* better choice. Like, I don't know a single person from Wash U who works in Austin biglaw (and I have looked extensively). I'm sure there is someone, but it's not a market Wash U really serves. Honestly, if you really want to work in Austin, you're probably better off gunning for the Houston or Dallas office of a firm that has an Austin office and transferring internally after a year or two.
If this doesn't get too personal, do you have ties to Austin or just the triangle or TX?
Also at what price would you consider WUSTL competitive with sticker-price NU?

The Lsat Airbender

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Post by The Lsat Airbender » Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:20 pm

laanngo wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:56 am
Also at what price would you consider WUSTL competitive with sticker-price NU?
You've been posting around here enough lately to know this is highly dependent on someone's specific goals, what their other options are, etc. It's not a useful question in a vacuum.

laanngo

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Post by laanngo » Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:33 pm

The Lsat Airbender wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:20 pm
You've been posting around here enough lately to know this is highly dependent on someone's specific goals, what their other options are, etc. It's not a useful question in a vacuum.
Good point. I kind of wanted blair waldorf's opinion on it but I agree it's kind of redundant for me to ask.

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blair.waldorf

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Post by blair.waldorf » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:28 pm

laanngo wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:56 am
blair.waldorf wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:53 pm
I don't know re: ties insensitivity in Houston. Austin is ties sensitive in part because there are just not that many SA spots and a lot of students want to work in Austin.

I didn't say UT is a better choice for TX (although it obviously is). I said if you're dead set on Austin, it's the *far* better choice. Like, I don't know a single person from Wash U who works in Austin biglaw (and I have looked extensively). I'm sure there is someone, but it's not a market Wash U really serves. Honestly, if you really want to work in Austin, you're probably better off gunning for the Houston or Dallas office of a firm that has an Austin office and transferring internally after a year or two.
If this doesn't get too personal, do you have ties to Austin or just the triangle or TX?
Also at what price would you consider WUSTL competitive with sticker-price NU?
(1) I have ties to Austin, but they aren't that strong.
(2) Depends on your goals and risk tolerance (i.e., how comfortable you are with the possibility of striking out). I would probably consider WUSTL competitive with sticker at NU if you got at least a 50% scholarship to WUSTL. In that case, though, I'd definitely recommend retaking, because you could probably get a full ride or close to it at WUSTL with just a point or two higher on the LSAT.

But you shouldn't pay sticker price for any law school (except maybe a T6 school). NU is a great law school, but it is not good enough to shield you from striking out at biglaw if you are at the bottom of the class (and thus the possibility that you will graduate with a ton of debt and no way to pay it off). Thus, I would not pay sticker price. You should retake the LSAT if you would like to go to a T14 and do not have any scholarship offers.

laanngo

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Post by laanngo » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:32 pm

blair.waldorf wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:28 pm
(1) I have ties to Austin, but they aren't that strong.
(2) Depends on your goals and risk tolerance (i.e., how comfortable you are with the possibility of striking out). I would probably consider WUSTL competitive with sticker at NU if you got at least a 50% scholarship to WUSTL. In that case, though, I'd definitely recommend retaking, because you could probably get a full ride or close to it at WUSTL with just a point or two higher on the LSAT.

But you shouldn't pay sticker price for any law school (except maybe a T6 school). NU is a great law school, but it is not good enough to shield you from striking out at biglaw if you are at the bottom of the class (and thus the possibility that you will graduate with a ton of debt and no way to pay it off). Thus, I would not pay sticker price. You should retake the LSAT if you would like to go to a T14 and do not have any scholarship offers.
This might be a less redundant way of asking: did you enjoy your time at WUSTL? do you think the law school's culture was good compared to other schools? What about the StL cost of living?

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laanngo

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Post by laanngo » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:18 pm

blair.waldorf wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:28 pm
STL
How's the zoo?

laanngo

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Post by laanngo » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:20 pm

blair.waldorf wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:28 pm
STL
How are the other city amenities, like the Arch, MLB, NHL, and Forest park? To the extent you have time for them as a law student?

decimalsanddollars

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Post by decimalsanddollars » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:37 pm

Sorry to lurk (non-WUSTL grad), but as someone with deep Austin ties and who went to UT, I just wanted to say blairwaldorf's analysis of the Austin market situation is spot on. It's hard even from top schools to break into that bubble without really strong ties, and many people are trying to get transferred there from Houston or Dallas offices. It wasn't always this way, but especially in the last few years it definitely has been.

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Post by acr » Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:39 pm

laanngo wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:20 pm
blair.waldorf wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:28 pm
STL
How are the other city amenities, like the Arch, MLB, NHL, and Forest park? To the extent you have time for them as a law student?

STL can grow on you, if you have an open mind. It is a midsize midwestern city than can feel big or small depending on where you’re coming from. If you come in from NYC, DC or LA looking for similarities, you’ll be setting yourself up for disappointment.

The best feature is, definitely, the low COL. You get great bang for your buck on rent, going out, dining out, etc.

If you’re a sports fan, then STL is a great place to be. The Cardinals are perennial contenders and the Blues just won the Stanley Cup last year. There is also a brand new MLS team in town, which should be fun.

The weather is pretty good. It’s scorching hot and humid briefly during the summer, but the trade off is more mild winters.

Otherwise, there’s actually lots of cool things to do in STL. Forest Park is an amazing place for running/walks and other events, there are some of the best barcecue restaurants in the world around town, the Anheuser Busch brewery tour is cool, the zoo is world class, and the city museum is one of my all-time favorite museums. The Arch grounds were recently renovated and turned into a national park. I’ve not been there since, but have heard it’s pretty impressive.

There is some pretty good hiking outside of STL, such as Castlewood State Park. The Lake of Ozarks are also a couple hours away. I personally really enjoyed the disc golf scene in STL, as there are tons of fantastic courses in the area. Missouri is a huge gambling state, and if you’re into that sort of thing, the STL casinos can be a good time.

There is a decent selection of neighborhoods to vary your nights out. The CWE is upscale, the Loop has more of an “undergrad” feel, and the Grove have a lot of character. Soulard has an awesome Mardi Gras celebration. The Hill is known for its amazing Italian food. Clayton (a suburb) also has a nice little downtown scene. In downtown STL there is Washington Ave. for a more “adult” experience and and Ballpark Village for the sports crowd.

I began really enjoying STL during my 2L year and was sad to leave after 3L.

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laanngo

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Post by laanngo » Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:37 pm

decimalsanddollars wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:37 pm
Sorry to lurk (non-WUSTL grad), but as someone with deep Austin ties and who went to UT, I just wanted to say blairwaldorf's analysis of the Austin market situation is spot on. It's hard even from top schools to break into that bubble without really strong ties, and many people are trying to get transferred there from Houston or Dallas offices. It wasn't always this way, but especially in the last few years it definitely has been.
Are there any reasons particular to the legal profession that makes it difficult to break into ATX? Of course it's the hip place to live, and UT is the king of ATX law moreso than it is king of TX law, but anything else?
acr wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:39 pm

STL can grow on you, if you have an open mind. It is a midsize midwestern city than can feel big or small depending on where you’re coming from. If you come in from NYC, DC or LA looking for similarities, you’ll be setting yourself up for disappointment.
What's it missing that big cities don't have? I looked it up and the commuter rail doesn't look very complete; what else would I be missing?
acr wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:39 pm
The best feature is, definitely, the low COL. You get great bang for your buck on rent, going out, dining out, etc.
bang/buck aside, how is the actual quality of food scene and housing stock?

decimalsanddollars

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Post by decimalsanddollars » Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:52 am

laanngo wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:37 pm
decimalsanddollars wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:37 pm
Sorry to lurk (non-WUSTL grad), but as someone with deep Austin ties and who went to UT, I just wanted to say blairwaldorf's analysis of the Austin market situation is spot on. It's hard even from top schools to break into that bubble without really strong ties, and many people are trying to get transferred there from Houston or Dallas offices. It wasn't always this way, but especially in the last few years it definitely has been.
Are there any reasons particular to the legal profession that makes it difficult to break into ATX? Of course it's the hip place to live, and UT is the king of ATX law moreso than it is king of TX law, but anything else?
It's not just that UT is king of the market. The biglaw market is just much smaller than that of Houston or Dallas, and the local Austin school is the best law school in Texas by a good margin, so there's just more supply of UT (plus T14) grads than there is demand for biglaw recruits. I really do think it's less about prestige and the insular nature of the market and more about supply and demand, especially when you factor in the transaction costs of interviewing at different schools (travel to e.g. St. Louis is way more burdensome than a 15-block uber from the offices to OCI at a higher-ranked school).

acr

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Post by acr » Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:28 pm

It’s just not as lively or dense as “larger” cities. While the train works in limited circumstances (some people took it to law school), you’ll need a car every day. Walking will be limited to your neighborhood.

Rather than having a lively downtown, STL is pretty dispersed across the many neighborhoods mentioned above. It’s like pockets of activity rather than a cohesive city.

Another difference is the proximity to dangerous areas. While I had no incidents with crime in 3 years living in STL and the crime is confined, I’ve never lived so close to murders, robberies, etc. Felt like it was right around the corner.

As I mentioned, the barbecue is literally world-class and the Italian in the Hill is incredible. I’m not a big foodie, so couldn’t tell you about the “quality” of food elsewhere, but seemed like there were a lot of neat places to eat in STL.

laanngo

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Post by laanngo » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:35 pm

decimalsanddollars wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:52 am
It's not just that UT is king of the market. The biglaw market is just much smaller than that of Houston or Dallas, and the local Austin school is the best law school in Texas by a good margin, so there's just more supply of UT (plus T14) grads than there is demand for biglaw recruits. I really do think it's less about prestige and the insular nature of the market and more about supply and demand, especially when you factor in the transaction costs of interviewing at different schools (travel to e.g. St. Louis is way more burdensome than a 15-block uber from the offices to OCI at a higher-ranked school).
How does its size and saturation compare with STL and Detroit(-AA) where the other midwestern T19 law schools outside of Chicago are located? Between UT, UCLA, WUSTL, USC and VU, who has the best home market? My guess is UT>UCLA≥USC≥WUSTL>VU (UCLA historically being much better than USC, but the LA market being both hyperspecialized and popular compared to other big cities); is that right?

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scigal

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Post by scigal » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:21 pm

Does anyone have a good Pratzel ethics outline?

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Post by gamecocklaw » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:06 pm

If there are any recent grads still hanging around, especially c/o 2020, what is your impression of the class rank ballpark cutoff for grads getting jobs they find reasonably desirable? There has been a lot of responses addressing this Q throughout the thread, but a lot of it is from the early-mid 20teens, and WUSTL seems to have very substaintially increased their BL + Fed Clerk rates since then. I'm also not solely interested in BL chances, "mid-law" or classmates self-selecting into PI or whatever else they consider a succesful outcome at a personal level is interesting too.

If you're still enrolled or graduated last year, what is your impression of how the class has faired given all the COVID and economic complications?

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Post by Doggonline » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:54 pm

lowenjo wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:16 pm
Looks like this thread has died. I still lurk on here a little bit, so figured I'd offer insight in case any current WUSTL students had questions.

Some background, graduated WUSTL in 2017. Moved back home and have bounced around a little: 2 years in Public Account doing tax consulting and now currently in a Amlaw 200 firm.

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