NYU 2L / Current NYC SA Taking ?? For a Bit Forum

[twistedwrister]

Shoot.

[facetious]

Thanks for taking questions! I'll be a 1L in about 4 weeks at NYU, so this is incredibly helpful.

1) when did you begin your 1L job search and what did you do (as general or specific as you choose)?

2) can you describe your OCI experience a bit: bidding, interviews, callbacks, how you ended up with your SA firm?

3) any hidden secrets of NYU 1L success?

I have many more questions, but I'll take it easy for now. Thanks again!

[twistedwrister]

Thanks for taking questions! I'll be a 1L in about 4 weeks at NYU, so this is incredibly helpful.

1) when did you begin your 1L job search and what did you do (as general or specific as you choose)?

2) can you describe your OCI experience a bit: bidding, interviews, callbacks, how you ended up with your SA firm?

3) any hidden secrets of NYU 1L success?

I have many more questions, but I'll take it easy for now. Thanks again!

Congrats! I hope you like it here.

(1) I began my 1L job search at the PILC Fair in February. I worked for a government agency.
(2) EIW was ... long. Long days, lots of interviews, smiling all the time, telling the same story over and over. Also, I found it a bit weird that the interviews were in hotel rooms. I only bid on NYC. My grades were good, so I got 20-something callbacks. I chose the firm where I felt most comfortable. One of the partners essentially hired me to work directly with him, so I don't have to worry about dealing with hierarchy-type problems (send project to junior associate, who sends it to senior associate, who sends it to junior partner, etc.).
(3) Secrets - do the reading, go to class, make your own outlines, and take a few practice tests to get a feel for what the prof is looking for. I didn't bother with supplements, etc. All the professors taught the material clearly enough that they weren't necessary (IMO).

[cahesu]

Congrats on you success. I'm also beginning NYU this fall. What are some things you wish you had known before the experience of the early interview week?

[twistedwrister]

Congrats on you success. I'm also beginning NYU this fall. What are some things you wish you had known before the experience of the early interview week?

(1) Make sure you know how to pronounce the firm names correctly.
(2) If you have time between interviews, it's worth it to stop by the "hospitality suites" and chat with current associates at different firms. You can learn a lot.
(3) Prepare for all your interviews, but make sure you are **really** prepared for your top picks. 8-10 interviews a day gets tiring, and you want to be on the ball for the most important interviews.
(4) There is little/no time between interviews, so you will be rushing around quite a bit.

[270910]

Having worked as an SA, any smart questions you can think to ask interviews? Or for that matter, any facets of your experience as a summer that make you think "wow, I really should have focused on this more when making my decision!"?

Also: In your experience, how do summer hours jive with firm hours? I get the impression that summers aren't "expected" to clock the same hours as first year associates. Is that accurate, and if so does it create any tension? Weird to leave the office when most are still grinding, etc. If that's not correct, how are the hours?

Thanks a lot, it's much appreciated!

[twistedwrister]

Having worked as an SA, any smart questions you can think to ask interviews? Or for that matter, any facets of your experience as a summer that make you think "wow, I really should have focused on this more when making my decision!"?

Also: In your experience, how do summer hours jive with firm hours? I get the impression that summers aren't "expected" to clock the same hours as first year associates. Is that accurate, and if so does it create any tension? Weird to leave the office when most are still grinding, etc. If that's not correct, how are the hours?

Thanks a lot, it's much appreciated!

No problem at all!

(1) smart questions to ask (that really impressed the interviewers) - what % of firm revenue comes from the [litigation, corporate, bankruptcy, whatever department you want to work in] department? What % of firm revenue is generated by your 4 or 5 biggest clients? Other than that, just be knowledgeable about the firm in general, specifically recent news (have they opened any new offices lately? Hired any new lateral partners in your area of interest?) (2) I think I focused on all the right things when choosing a firm. It's trite, but "fit" is important. I turned down one V10 offer because I found most of the people I met at the firm to be too arrogant. I really got along well with all the partners and associates at my firm, which was a big reason I chose it. Also, your experience as a summer (and a junior associate) will be tied directly to whom you are working with/for. In other words, a great "firm culture" doesn't mean anything if you get stuck working in a group with a partner who is a jerk and other associates who are scrounging for work because the group is so slow. If you make a connection with a particular partner who has some clout at the firm, I would certainly take that into consideration when choosing where to work. It never hurts to have powerful people in your corner. (3) regarding hours - at my firm, summers are not expected to work the same hours as associates are. There is no tension because all/most of the associates used to be summers. The summer is supposed to be a fun learning experience. Don't get me wrong. I did a lot of "real work" this summer (working on trial teams, writing various motions, etc.), and you are expected to work hard. I usually worked from 8:45 AM until about 6 PM, if I didn't have a deadline to meet. I worked until 8 or 9 maybe once a week. I worked until 10 or 11 once or twice during the summer. I also did a few hours of work on weekends a few times, if I had a Monday deadline.

[miamiman]

Have you gotten any sense as to how your firm is doing health-wise and/or a general sense as to the near-term hiring in your practice area?

[twistedwrister]

Have you gotten any sense as to how your firm is doing health-wise and/or a general sense as to the near-term hiring in your practice area?

My firm is doing well. PPP and RPL were up last year. The firm is always looking to hire talented laterals (mainly partners with strong books of business, but some associates) in most, if not all, practice areas. They are focusing on some practice areas more than others right now, but I don't feel comfortable saying more than that. Regarding summer associate hiring, next year's class will be **slightly** bigger than this year's class, but nothing like the size it was several years ago.

[shmoo597]

This is great - so many threads here are the blind leading the blind so it's excellent to have real solid information from someone who has been through OCI.

My questions:

1. What was your class rank?

2. If you know, how did transfers fare (generally speaking) at OCI? How are transfers (lets say from a t25 school or better) treated GPA wise - are they thought of as median, or top third, top of the class?

3. How many firms/offices come from CA? Specifically, how many come from SF? Do people who want SF biglaw jobs generally get them/is it difficult to pull this off?

4. How many interviews and callbacks can a median student expect to get?

5. Are there any tips or advice you can give on how you got TWENTY callbacks? Sounds like you are living in a 2006-2007 boom time universe.

Again, thanks a lot!

[twistedwrister]

Glad to help.

1. NYU doesn't rank, but after 1L, I was likely in the top 5%.
2. I don't know much about how transfers fared during EIW. I only know one transfer student really well. He came from a school ranked between 50 and 70 (according to US News) and currently works as a summer associate at the same firm I do. He is really personable, which I'm sure helped during the interview process. As a side note, he mentioned that there is quite a large difference in the "quality" of students between his old school and NYU. He obviously did very well at his previous school, but his grades during 2L at NYU were average.
3. A ton of firms from CA come to NYU's EIW. Pretty much all the big CA firms are represented. I'm not the best person to ask about the firm list for this year's EIW since I'm not doing it. You would be better off asking a current 1L who has the list of firms (and who has studied it). I don't know too many people who targeted CA, so it is difficult to tell how successful people were. I only bid on NYC. I have friends at Paul Hastings in SF and K&E (can't remember if he is in Palo Alto or SF), and I don't personally know anyone who wanted CA but completely struck out.
4. Screening interviews at NYU are lottery-based (no pre-screening). From what I remember, people typically had between 20 and 30 interviews, and it didn't matter too much where in the class you fell. My friends with average grades generally got 3-4 callbacks and 1-2 offers.
5. I'd guess I got a lot of callbacks/offers because of (1) my grades, (2) my prior work experience, and (3) my generally happy/outgoing personality. I tend to get along well with people, which is obviously a plus when you are interviewing. Also, I get the feeling that since my grades were good, the interviewers were just trying to get a read on whether I would fit at their respective firms. I didn't get any crazy questions like some of my friends did (what is your favorite rule of civil procedure and why?) I pretty much just talked about myself, my career goals, why I wanted to work at firm X, etc. IMO, the best interviews are just good 15-20 minute conversations. I can't stress enough how important personality is. Grades get you looked at, but they don't seal the deal (at top firms, at least). Hope this helps.

[solidsnake]

1. What are good examples of "career goals" that most interviewers at EIW want to hear?
2. What types of stories should we have prepared/feel comfortable and fluent chatting about?

Tyia.

[Knock]

What do you think of the large class size? did you like it, dislike it? why?

[twistedwrister]

1. What are good examples of "career goals" that most interviewers at EIW want to hear?
2. What types of stories should we have prepared/feel comfortable and fluent chatting about?

Tyia.

Just be honest. Talk about your actual career goals (unless of course your only goal is to make a lot of $$$, then make something up). For me, I wanted to be part of a growing, dynamic practice in a particular field. You should be prepared to talk about anything on your resume. Have some good anecdotes that show your best qualities (ability to multitask, leadership, working in groups, etc.). If you can, try to steer the conversation toward the stories that show your strengths. Don't just give short, cursory answers. Elaborate a bit. Don't say "I'm a good leader" or "I have good time management skills," but rather create a narrative that highlights these (or similar) traits. Remember, you are talking to lawyers, so they can usually smell bullsh*t.

[twistedwrister]

What do you think of the large class size? did you like it, dislike it? why?

I never really understood the class size thing. It's not like you are in class with the entire student body at once. IMO, the difference between large and small law school class sizes are:

1. Sitting in a 1L lecture class with 80-90 students instead of 30-40 students, and
2. A higher probability you will find a group of people you really like

Some people seem to think smaller class sizes make it easier to get to know professors. I think student/faculty ratio would be a better measure of that. In any event, good students who don't mind talking to profs will build relationships with professors, regardless of whether the law school has 500 kids or 200 kids. Bad students who never say a word won't, again regardless of class size. I like the large class because it adds variety. I'm not stuck with the same dysfunctional family day after day. Also, if you like smaller classes...take smaller classes. There are plenty of those at NYU (and I'm sure the same can be said at Harvard, Columbia, and other big law schools). If you went to undergrad and thought "geez, there are too many people around," maybe a smaller law school would be the way to go.

[shmoo597]

One more time - thanks for answering these questions - this is great info for rising 1Ls...

Question: What happened to those who struck out at OCI? From what I gather, ~30% of those who participated in OCI were no offered. I assume that grades were a big part of this, but was this the main factor? What I mean to ask is, did people above the median, or in the top third, generally all get offers?

Were most of those 30% able to find other jobs in small or mid-sized firms, government, etc? Any unemployed 2Ls?

Thanks again!

[twistedwrister]

I know 2 people who wanted a firm job and didn't get one through EIW. One had average to below average grades, and I could see him coming off as abrasive. The other had below average grades, no work experience, and didn't take interviewing seriously (showed up late, didn't research firms, etc). I'm not sure what either one ended up doing this summer. I don't know anyone with good grades who didn't get anything. Most had multiple offers from good firms. As a side note, some of the more "popular" firms this year among good students seemed to be:

Simpson
Cleary
S and C (offer dinner was huge, not sure how many accepted)
Jenner DC
Paul Weiss
GDC, to a lesser extent

Hth

[twistedwrister]

Hey all. I recently finished up my SA job and will be around for a bit today if there are any more questions.

[forza]

Hi there! Thanks for the great information.

Can you tell us a bit about your future with your summer firm? Likelihood you'll be reeled in post-graduation?

[twistedwrister]

Hi there! Thanks for the great information.

Can you tell us a bit about your future with your summer firm? Likelihood you'll be reeled in post-graduation?

No problem! I'm glad to help. I got an offer from my summer firm, which I will accept unless I decide to do a clerkship. FWIW, my firm had a 100% offer rate for the NY office (where I worked) this summer. I love the firm, so I won't be doing any interviews this recruiting season.

[hopefullaw27]

Do you think incoming 1L's will face more favorable hiring during their OCI?

[twistedwrister]

Do you think incoming 1L's will face more favorable hiring during their OCI?

I think so, as long as firms don't overhire this year and next year. Summer classes are slightly bigger this year, and offer rates, at least so far, seem high. As I mentioned, my firm's NY office had a 100% offer rate this year (I'm not sure about the other offices). It's hard to predict too far out, though.

[DaveBear07]

TLS FTW here. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

Shot in the dark: Have you met any of the Root-Tilden-Kern scholars? If so, what were they like? I'm curious to see just how out of my league I am in applying.

[Knock]

TLS FTW here. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

Shot in the dark: Have you met any of the Root-Tilden-Kern scholars? If so, what were they like? I'm curious to see just how out of my league I am in applying.

What is that/those?

[DaveBear07]

NYU's public interest scholarship program. I actually just came across bio's for all of their current scholars. I don't know if I missed that before or if it's new.

But I don't want to hijack--- many thanks.