University of the Pacific, McGeorge School of Law Forum

[seatown12]

Wow the rankings whoring in this thread is pathetic. So apparently there was nothing you guys liked about McGeorge other than its #92 ranking? As if 92 is really that much more impressive than 102 or whatever it is now. Get over it, anyone who would give you crap over going to a "TTT" isn't worth worrying about.

[Ipsa Dixit]

I heard that Hofstra recently abolished evening part time program in order to prevent significant drop of admission data. Mcgeroge still opreate both day and evening part time divison. As far as UNR maintains new methodology, it would be difficult for Mcgeorge to return to Tier 2 without abandoning everning part time division.

This is what the rankings do. They encourage schools to game the system.

Schools have an incentive to do things that may improve the rankings, but don't actually help the students or improve the quality of education.

What would be a purpose of dropping evening programs? To increase the median LSAT scores for rankings purposes? Of course because evening tends to have lower entry stats. Does that change the quality of education? Of course not because the school's pedagogical processes do not change by simply removing a certain population of students.

I call shenanigans on that type of practice, but the US News calls it a better school.

US News is in the business of selling magazines, not improving its own methodology and gathering more information than it wants to (gathering more qualitative data, that would surely cut into their profit margin.) However, I get that most prospective students don't have access to better information so will use the US News rankings as a guide, but using it as the foundation for decision making is problematic.

At any rate, I have tried to be and will continue to be honest about my experience at the school and thoughts on it. Feel free to ask questions here or in private messages (I may be slow depending on how many questions you ask.)

[careerchange]

I heard that Hofstra recently abolished evening part time program in order to prevent significant drop of admission data. Mcgeroge still opreate both day and evening part time divison. As far as UNR maintains new methodology, it would be difficult for Mcgeorge to return to Tier 2 without abandoning everning part time division.

This is what the rankings do. They encourage schools to game the system.

Schools have an incentive to do things that may improve the rankings, but don't actually help the students or improve the quality of education.

What would be a purpose of dropping evening programs? To increase the median LSAT scores for rankings purposes? Of course because evening tends to have lower entry stats. Does that change the quality of education? Of course not because the school's pedagogical processes do not change by simply removing a certain population of students.

I call shenanigans on that type of practice, but the US News calls it a better school.

US News is in the business of selling magazines, not improving its own methodology and gathering more information than it wants to (gathering more qualitative data, that would surely cut into their profit margin.) However, I get that most prospective students don't have access to better information so will use the US News rankings as a guide, but using it as the foundation for decision making is problematic.

At any rate, I have tried to be and will continue to be honest about my experience at the school and thoughts on it. Feel free to ask questions here or in private messages (I may be slow depending on how many questions you ask.)

Are students at the law school talking about the rankings? What if anything is being said?

[Matokah]

careerchange: Answer = nope.

I seriously didn't even know McGeorge had "dumped" into the third tier until I checked this board.

Here's my take on this:

I originally applied to law schools (including McGeorge) during the 2004-2005 admissions cycle. At the time, McGeorge was ranked as a third tier school.

I visited. I was incredibly impressed. The only thing that was really holding me back was that I'd gotten into some tier 2 schools and wasn't sure if I should "waste" my money on a third tier one.

Well, I sent in my deposit elsewhere (a tier 2) but for reasons totally unrelated to rankings, I decided not to attend and took two years off before reapplying.

Now, here's the irony: during the April rankings change, McGeorge became a tier 2 for the first time, I believe, ever in its history, and the tier 2 I got into fell into the third tier.

...seriously? NOTHING had changed about these schools that I'd noticed and yet they flipped rankings.

Really, I think you need to assess why you were interested in McGeorge in the first place. NO ONE in the legal sphere here in Sacramento cares about those rankings, to my knowledge. The people who are only going to hire the top 10% of our class are still going to hire those top 10%. Government agencies and small local law firms are still by and large staffed by McGeorge grads who can help you network and get a job after graduation (I have personal experience with this...my current boss at my field placement and what will be my summer job in a month was a 2001 McGeorge grad who talks to me about her experiences at this school all the time).

That's just my personal experience.

As for tuition, Ipsa is correct that it'll go up. It's inevitable, depressing, and I think it's atrocious in this economy, but I wouldn't at all be surprised to see it top $38K. Your scholarships will NOT be adjusted accordingly, to my knowledge. Mine wasn't. Last year we weren't informed of the official new tuition until sometime in the summer. Sorry. :\

Just like Ipsa, I'm happy to respond to PMs as my time permits. I really do enjoy the school (just not the tuition ) and don't regret my choice of moving cross-country to get here.

N.B. I'm running to class, so I don't have time to proof this. Apologies in advance.

[Ipsa Dixit]

careerchange, not really. I overheard some 1Ls talking about it briefly, but among the 2Ls, no. I doubt most people would even notice since they've no reason to be looking at the rankings and for the reasons Matokah said.

And OMG LOL I just realized who Matokah is (based on the facebook link to the photos of the school in the other thread.) Hahaha, I feel kind of dumb for not knowing. See you in Levine's class on Thursday (where I sit next to you and have the exact same computer model as you)... yay presentations.

[joc]

I heard that Hofstra recently abolished evening part time program in order to prevent significant drop of admission data. Mcgeroge still opreate both day and evening part time divison. As far as UNR maintains new methodology, it would be difficult for Mcgeorge to return to Tier 2 without abandoning everning part time division.

This is what the rankings do. They encourage schools to game the system.

Schools have an incentive to do things that may improve the rankings, but don't actually help the students or improve the quality of education.

What would be a purpose of dropping evening programs? To increase the median LSAT scores for rankings purposes? Of course because evening tends to have lower entry stats. Does that change the quality of education? Of course not because the school's pedagogical processes do not change by simply removing a certain population of students.

I call shenanigans on that type of practice, but the US News calls it a better school.

US News is in the business of selling magazines, not improving its own methodology and gathering more information than it wants to (gathering more qualitative data, that would surely cut into their profit margin.) However, I get that most prospective students don't have access to better information so will use the US News rankings as a guide, but using it as the foundation for decision making is problematic.

At any rate, I have tried to be and will continue to be honest about my experience at the school and thoughts on it. Feel free to ask questions here or in private messages (I may be slow depending on how many questions you ask.)

Keep in mind that UOP also was gaming the system last year.

[Matokah]

joc: How so, exactly?

And...now I'm awful with knowing what ranking we were, but weren't we something like 92 last year and 98 the year before? I know we've been around 90-100 since the 2005 academic year.

So was McGeorge "gaming" all those years, then? And if so, how? I'm actually interested. Please qualify your statement.

[joc]

joc: How so, exactly?

And...now I'm awful with knowing what ranking we were, but weren't we something like 92 last year and 98 the year before? I know we've been around 90-100 since the 2005 academic year.

So was McGeorge "gaming" all those years, then? And if so, how? I'm actually interested. Please qualify your statement.

First off, every law school is gaming the system. Every law school has analysts who mess with figures and faculty do their part to also try and increase the rankings.

What I heard about UOP: sent out letters to lawyers and judges in order to increase visibility ratings, played with employment rate, gave faculty raises, etc.

Then again, I heard SCU sent out letters that had a "conditional acceptance" if prospective students would commit

Either way, UOP knows how to work with these variables, so I'm sure they will be back on the top 100 next year.

[ria29]

Wow that was fast. Went complete 3/05, decision mailed 3/18. The Fees section of the status checker added two tuition deposit fees ($150 and $100 due 5/1 and 6/1 respectively), I hope that's a good sign!

Either that or they are starting to troll for real dummies who are happy putting seat deposits down for a school they've been rejected from!

I think it's safe to say at this point: Congrats!

.......uhm, has anyone actually had their fees section updated with the amounts and dates but was rejected? heh.

mine changed today to "Decision Rendered". Letter sent and fees section updated today as well. wish me luck!!! despite the drop in rankings, I still heart McGeorge and an acceptance wouldn't hurt

[lawbug]

"decision rendered" yesterday, no update under mail notification section yet but the tuition fees inside the "fee" box disappeared. Weird??? I don't know if I even consider McGeorge but it would suck getting rejected at a back up school.

[pad]

decision rendered and under mail description letter mailed. Fee's section disappeared as well, only the headings are visible .
[Date Due Amt. Due Amt. Paid Date Paid ]

[fakedoctor3]

sorry if the fee box disappeared and
ur decision has been rendered expect a
rejection or waitlist notice

[A'nold]

LOL at all of you McGeorgies getting all upset that they are a t3 now. You guys used to talk about USF like it was some ttt and McGeorge like it was so much better. I have always maintained that USF was a better school. Now you guys are crapping your pants over this t3 thing?! They are a t3, through and through, regardless if they are 92 or a t4. They are a good school to go to if you want Sac. Chill it out guys.

[Avill]

"decision rendered" yesterday, no update under mail notification section yet but the tuition fees inside the "fee" box disappeared. Weird??? I don't know if I even consider McGeorge but it would suck getting rejected at a back up school.

ditto. status changed to "decision rendered" 5/4 and tuition fees inside the fee box disappeared as well. G'luck!

[njc]

Withdrew today with 12k annual scholly. I hope some deserving TLSer gets it. Good luck!

[Nabzpv]

Withdrew today with 12k annual scholly. I hope some deserving TLSer gets it. Good luck!

Congrats on the decision, where are you headed??

[njc]

Withdrew today with 12k annual scholly. I hope some deserving TLSer gets it. Good luck!

Congrats on the decision, where are you headed??

Most likely Santa Clara unless I get off a waitlist or USF offers me more cash money.

[Nabzpv]

Sweet, Good Luck!

[theamericanidol]

I am in! Got a call today saying letter is on the way! Yey

[tequilasunriseplz]

Let me know if anyone is interested in 1L text books! Wait until you know what section you are in & what professor you have. Then, if you don't have the book scholarship, send me a message! I have books that are like new (no writing; no highlighting).

[sirmick]

Hi all! Just joined TLS! I'm excited to hear all you guys have to say about Pacific McGeorge! I just got my acceptance on July 8th I visited the campus yesterday and seeing everything really got me anxious and excited to start! Can't wait to meet you all soon!

-Mick

[catalogguy]

Hi Mick,

I got my acceptance this month, too. I am really excited about it as well. I agree the campus is sweet: 13 acres of just law school. Still working on housing... going to spend the rest of today in Sac looking for a place. Primarily focused on the Arden area. What about you?

Andrew

Hi all! Just joined TLS! I'm excited to hear all you guys have to say about Pacific McGeorge! I just got my acceptance on July 8th I visited the campus yesterday and seeing everything really got me anxious and excited to start! Can't wait to meet you all soon!

-Mick

[sirmick]

Andrew, congratulations on your acceptance!

I just found a place pretty close to campus...literally a stone's throw away. It's in a house with a few other guys and adjacent to a couple of other houses with a couple more law students. I thought it'd be a benefit living with other folks going through the same thing I was! Good luck to you on your housing ventures!

[catalogguy]

Thanks for checking back. Congrats on getting a plan together to get yourself in the area. My gf and I found a place in the Arden area... small 3 bedroom house with managable yard, safe quiet street, $1095. Fits our needs. See ya in class!

[ria29]

Congrats everyone!

For those still waiting, I recently withdrew with $$ . Best of luck!