How to think about second clerkships for SCOTUS Forum

[Anonymous User]

Student at HYSChi here. FedSoc. I've secured a clerkship for after graduation with a COA feeder (a Katsas/Thapar/Sutton/Pryor type judge). Have SCOTUS grades/ambitions. With that in mind, I was wondering if the TLS hivemind has any idea how to strategize when it comes to considering a second clerkship. Does the second judge need to be a feeder, too? Is it worth it to target a District Court clerkship (which seems like it'd be super valuable experience that could be useful to have as a litigator), or is the double appellate approach the way to go? If District Courts are on the table, does it need to be in one of the "top" districts (SDNY, DDC, NDCA, etc)? If COA is the way to go, how should I approach that? If I should be targeting feeders/semi-feeders, would it be worthwhile to target an established feeder with a more up-and-coming feeder, or is this all overthinking it? Do I need to apply for a second clerkship at all to be competitive for SCOTUS (assuming I keep my grades up)? I think a second clerkship would be an amazing experience, but I'm also just not quite sure how I should be thinking about the decision-making here. So humbled by the situation, and am trying to make sure that I make the best decisions possible!

(A lot of this question is focused on SCOTUS chances, but also curious about how different choices will impact future career opportunities in BigLaw/government, if at all)

[Anonymous User]

Talk to your judge. He knows you are interested.

"Judge, I'm so excited to work for you. One thing I've been thinking about is potentially applying to work for a district court. Are there any district court judges that you think highly of? If so, I'll target them."

Once in the conversation, slip in "oh and by the way, I've been thinking of applying to work for Justices X and Y (whoever they have fed to most recently). Are there any district court judges connected to you and Justice X?"

At this point, its all about personal connections. The court doesn't matter. (except, you know, to your QoL but who cares about that).

[Anonymous User]

I don't see why you would want to do a second COA with a non-feeder in your situation. I'm not sure what it would add for you, unless there is some other experience you want to get or some geographic/relationship tie. I don't think the second appellate clerkship adds much in the way of new experience, so it'd be more about those factors or maximizing your SCOTUS chances.

District court maybe if you are interested in getting that experience. I personally found the district court clerkship to be a a great learning experience and had fun doing it. But I think a lot comes down to your judge, both in terms of reputation and what it will be like working in chambers.

RE SCOTUS & DJs: Like with COA positions I'd think it's more about specific DJ rather than the court. Especially for the conservative side, since there are not that many conservatives on some of the big-city district courts (SDNY, CA for instance).

[Anonymous User]

Seconding asking your judge but I think whether you do district or appellate for a second clerkship should be based on whether you want to practice commercial litigation/white collar or do appellate. A dct clerkship is a great way to meet judges in a specific district and make connections to the USAO in that area as well. Having done both, I don't see a lot of value in doing a dct clerkship if you solely want to do appellate.

If your goal is SCOTUS and a top appellate group/SGs office/DOJ civ or crim appellate, and you're set on doing two clerkships, I would recommend a DC Circuit clerkship and a non DC Circuit COA feeder.

Also, I only have experience with one of the judges you mentioned but the SCOTUS convo will likely happen during your first clerkship and your judge will speak to the justice and inform that they recommend you for OTX and you'll be clerking for X in between. If your first judge doesn't recommend you, I doubt having a second clerkship will help you unless that second judge has a good relationship with a different justice.

[Anonymous User]

I agree with everything that's been said. The best-of-both-worlds result for you would be a Fed Soc DJ semi/feeder—Friedrich ideally. Kovner, McFadden, Nichols, and Pacold have also fed, and Cronan will feed sooner or later given who he hires. There aren't many of these judges, but there also aren't many people with top top Fed Soc feeder clerkships applying to DJs, and I would very much like your chances. I would also consider others your judge and profs like or well-regarded Fed Soc DJs in your desired jurisdiction. Note that many of the DJs hire on-plan or close to it, so if you're a 1L, there's a ways to go and the timelines are a factor.

As far as circuits go, you’d obviously just apply to other feeders, especially DC Cir if you don’t have that already, that’s not rocket science. If there's a particular judge you'd like to clerk for for personal reasons that's obviously also fine, but not likely to move the needle for SCOTUS.

I also agree that which is better depends a bit on your goals. All else being equal a district court is a better learning experience, but if your end goal is e.g. SDNY AUSA, that makes the case for a district court (especially if it’s Friedrich, Kovner, or Cronan) significantly stronger. Whereas for appellate it matters less.

[Anonymous User]

If the poster’s end goal is SNDY AUSA, why would they clerk for friedrich instead of a sdny judge? I understand Cronan and also kovner bc she worked in that office.

[Anonymous User]

If the poster’s end goal is SNDY AUSA, why would they clerk for friedrich instead of a sdny judge? I understand Cronan and also kovner bc she worked in that office.

She's not precisely from that milieu but they're not going to turn up their noses at a former Sentencing Commissioner and AUSA. Plus she feeds basically all of her clerks. So imo Friedrich > Cronan > Kovner* for OP's (entirely hypothetical) goals.

* The latter just because I assume that Cronan has better SDNY connections than Kovner between the court he sits on and his history/seniority in the office, but that's an assumption. Fwiw both are good people who put out excellent work product and work their clerks hard.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

Are there any other DJs in the category of FedSoc feeders/semi-feeders, perhaps some that haven't fed yet but will? There's Friedrich, Kovner, Nichols, Pacard. Cronan sounds like a future feeder in people's eyes, and McFadden too. What about Beaton, Nielson (who is feeding one to SCOTUS), etc., just to name some DJs I've heard about? Are there other DJs to keep an eye on? Or is it truly just the shortlist at DDC and EDNY/SDNY?

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

Are there any other DJs in the category of FedSoc feeders/semi-feeders, perhaps some that haven't fed yet but will? There's Friedrich, Kovner, Nichols, Pacard. Cronan sounds like a future feeder in people's eyes, and McFadden too. What about Beaton, Nielson (who is feeding one to SCOTUS), etc., just to name some DJs I've heard about? Are there other DJs to keep an eye on? Or is it truly just the shortlist at DDC and EDNY/SDNY?

I don’t think anyone else is as sure a bet, but some DJs who I’ve seen hire Fed Soc clerks with COA clerkships include Beaton, Nielson, Eskridge, Altman, Mizelle, Hendrix, Kness, Vyskocil, Preska, Karas, Kelly, Cole, Crause, Maze, and the TX national injunction judges. I get the sense that Beaton and Nielson in particular want to feed, which is something.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

Are there any other DJs in the category of FedSoc feeders/semi-feeders, perhaps some that haven't fed yet but will? There's Friedrich, Kovner, Nichols, Pacard. Cronan sounds like a future feeder in people's eyes, and McFadden too. What about Beaton, Nielson (who is feeding one to SCOTUS), etc., just to name some DJs I've heard about? Are there other DJs to keep an eye on? Or is it truly just the shortlist at DDC and EDNY/SDNY?

I don't think Boasberg is necessarily opposed Fed Soc but you'll still have to apply on plan for him. And because he does on plan he rarely, if ever hires Fed Soc. But I would still apply to him.