Should I only apply to competitive districts? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I have around a 3.9 at CLS which I think is competitive for SDNY/DDC but I personally am not that picky, I just want to go to any city on East or West Coast. On the other hand, I can only really clerk once on a district court and I don't want to "throw away" my opportunity at SDNY/DDC. Should I constrain myself to just the competitive districts or is a clerkship a clerkship and the difference between a district like SDNY/CD Cal. and like D. Conn./D. Mass./D.R.I. (for East Coast) and S.D. Cal./D. Oreg./W.D. Wash./E.D. Cal. (for West Coast) not really a big deal.

[Anonymous User]

I have around a 3.9 at CLS which I think is competitive for SDNY/DDC but I personally am not that picky, I just want to go to any city on East or West Coast. On the other hand, I can only really clerk once on a district court and I don't want to "throw away" my opportunity at SDNY/DDC. Should I constrain myself to just the competitive districts or is a clerkship a clerkship and the difference between a district like SDNY/CD Cal. and like D. Conn./D. Mass./D.R.I. (for East Coast) and S.D. Cal./D. Oreg./W.D. Wash./E.D. Cal. (for West Coast) not really a big deal.

A 3.9 at CLS should be getting attention from SDNY and EDNY judges, especially those that hire frequently from CLS. If you can, you should apply for the district court externships, some of the judges hire their externs.

[Anonymous User]

I have around a 3.9 at CLS which I think is competitive for SDNY/DDC but I personally am not that picky, I just want to go to any city on East or West Coast. On the other hand, I can only really clerk once on a district court and I don't want to "throw away" my opportunity at SDNY/DDC. Should I constrain myself to just the competitive districts or is a clerkship a clerkship and the difference between a district like SDNY/CD Cal. and like D. Conn./D. Mass./D.R.I. (for East Coast) and S.D. Cal./D. Oreg./W.D. Wash./E.D. Cal. (for West Coast) not really a big deal.

It's all about how soon you want to clerk. If it's important to clerk one or two years out, I would go broad from the get go. If not, then don't because I do think with some work experience you will probably get SDNY or DDC in a few cycles

[WilliamFaulkner]

I have around a 3.9 at CLS which I think is competitive for SDNY/DDC but I personally am not that picky, I just want to go to any city on East or West Coast. On the other hand, I can only really clerk once on a district court and I don't want to "throw away" my opportunity at SDNY/DDC. Should I constrain myself to just the competitive districts or is a clerkship a clerkship and the difference between a district like SDNY/CD Cal. and like D. Conn./D. Mass./D.R.I. (for East Coast) and S.D. Cal./D. Oreg./W.D. Wash./E.D. Cal. (for West Coast) not really a big deal.

A 3.9 at CLS should be getting attention from SDNY and EDNY judges, especially those that hire frequently from CLS. If you can, you should apply for the district court externships, some of the judges hire their externs.

There are a lot of people with 3.9s from T14 schools. Or, those with 3.7+ and fancy ECs or professors calling or random connections, whatever.

There is no science to the clerkship hunt. It is random. If you want to clerk, apply broadly. If you are fine clerking one or two years after graduating, apply more selectively, but don't do so with the view that an SDNY or D.D.C. clerkship is materially different than a S.D. Fla., D.Del., or D.Mass. clerkship. Go look at any top firm and you'll find plenty of folks with non SDNY/D.D.C. clerkships. So if you aim only for the "top," just know you're limiting the likelihood that you clerk all for a silly TLS metric of prestige.

I would also add that clerking is perhaps the only year of your life where you can live in a non-major market and still develop professionally (as judged by NYC, DC, LA firms). So if you want to go work in, say, Miami for a year, do that. Or Anchorage or Detroit or Asheville. It is true that dockets differ between districts, and I would caution against a rural district in middle America for that reason, but you shouldn't let the prospect of a DDC/SDNY gold star stop you from applying to a coveted position in your dream city.

[Anonymous User]

Which judges hire externs???

[Anonymous User]

I have around a 3.9 at CLS which I think is competitive for SDNY/DDC but I personally am not that picky, I just want to go to any city on East or West Coast. On the other hand, I can only really clerk once on a district court and I don't want to "throw away" my opportunity at SDNY/DDC. Should I constrain myself to just the competitive districts or is a clerkship a clerkship and the difference between a district like SDNY/CD Cal. and like D. Conn./D. Mass./D.R.I. (for East Coast) and S.D. Cal./D. Oreg./W.D. Wash./E.D. Cal. (for West Coast) not really a big deal.

A 3.9 at CLS should be getting attention from SDNY and EDNY judges, especially those that hire frequently from CLS. If you can, you should apply for the district court externships, some of the judges hire their externs.

There are a lot of people with 3.9s from T14 schools. Or, those with 3.7+ and fancy ECs or professors calling or random connections, whatever.

There is no science to the clerkship hunt. It is random. If you want to clerk, apply broadly. If you are fine clerking one or two years after graduating, apply more selectively, but don't do so with the view that an SDNY or D.D.C. clerkship is materially different than a S.D. Fla., D.Del., or D.Mass. clerkship. Go look at any top firm and you'll find plenty of folks with non SDNY/D.D.C. clerkships. So if you aim only for the "top," just know you're limiting the likelihood that you clerk all for a silly TLS metric of prestige.

I would also add that clerking is perhaps the only year of your life where you can live in a non-major market and still develop professionally (as judged by NYC, DC, LA firms). So if you want to go work in, say, Miami for a year, do that. Or Anchorage or Detroit or Asheville. It is true that dockets differ between districts, and I would caution against a rural district in middle America for that reason, but you shouldn't let the prospect of a DDC/SDNY gold star stop you from applying to a coveted position in your dream city.

Thank you for the in depth answer and this mostly answers my question. I'm not looking to set myself up for anything fancy, just want to clerk and then go back to New York or DC. Was particularly interested in living in the West Coast to try it out (as seen by my D. Oreg, W.D. Wash., S.D. Cal., and E.D. Cal. questions). Sounds like all those districts have decent dockets rights? (I assume some have material differences, though, like the S.D. Cal. probably has a lot of immigration stuff.)

[Anonymous User]

I have around a 3.9 at CLS which I think is competitive for SDNY/DDC but I personally am not that picky, I just want to go to any city on East or West Coast. On the other hand, I can only really clerk once on a district court and I don't want to "throw away" my opportunity at SDNY/DDC. Should I constrain myself to just the competitive districts or is a clerkship a clerkship and the difference between a district like SDNY/CD Cal. and like D. Conn./D. Mass./D.R.I. (for East Coast) and S.D. Cal./D. Oreg./W.D. Wash./E.D. Cal. (for West Coast) not really a big deal.

A 3.9 at CLS should be getting attention from SDNY and EDNY judges, especially those that hire frequently from CLS. If you can, you should apply for the district court externships, some of the judges hire their externs.

There are a lot of people with 3.9s from T14 schools. Or, those with 3.7+ and fancy ECs or professors calling or random connections, whatever.

There is no science to the clerkship hunt. It is random. If you want to clerk, apply broadly. If you are fine clerking one or two years after graduating, apply more selectively, but don't do so with the view that an SDNY or D.D.C. clerkship is materially different than a S.D. Fla., D.Del., or D.Mass. clerkship. Go look at any top firm and you'll find plenty of folks with non SDNY/D.D.C. clerkships. So if you aim only for the "top," just know you're limiting the likelihood that you clerk all for a silly TLS metric of prestige.

I would also add that clerking is perhaps the only year of your life where you can live in a non-major market and still develop professionally (as judged by NYC, DC, LA firms). So if you want to go work in, say, Miami for a year, do that. Or Anchorage or Detroit or Asheville. It is true that dockets differ between districts, and I would caution against a rural district in middle America for that reason, but you shouldn't let the prospect of a DDC/SDNY gold star stop you from applying to a coveted position in your dream city.

In a CLS class, the maximum number of RBGs/students with a 3.9 GPA typically ranges from 10 to 20. From my personal experience, every student in my year with those credentials who opted out of transactional work secured a clerkship in SDNY, EDNY, DNJ, or 2nd Circuit, provided they expressed interest. While some may not have been matched with their preferred judge, there was no shortage of opportunities.

While clerkships can be unpredictable, exceptional credentials certainly help a lot. Go to your professors and ask who they know and are willing to call for. I'm not a geography snob by any means, but there is zero point in OP going to Anchorage if they have no interest and want to stay in the NY area.

[WilliamFaulkner]

I have around a 3.9 at CLS which I think is competitive for SDNY/DDC but I personally am not that picky, I just want to go to any city on East or West Coast. On the other hand, I can only really clerk once on a district court and I don't want to "throw away" my opportunity at SDNY/DDC. Should I constrain myself to just the competitive districts or is a clerkship a clerkship and the difference between a district like SDNY/CD Cal. and like D. Conn./D. Mass./D.R.I. (for East Coast) and S.D. Cal./D. Oreg./W.D. Wash./E.D. Cal. (for West Coast) not really a big deal.

A 3.9 at CLS should be getting attention from SDNY and EDNY judges, especially those that hire frequently from CLS. If you can, you should apply for the district court externships, some of the judges hire their externs.

There are a lot of people with 3.9s from T14 schools. Or, those with 3.7+ and fancy ECs or professors calling or random connections, whatever.

There is no science to the clerkship hunt. It is random. If you want to clerk, apply broadly. If you are fine clerking one or two years after graduating, apply more selectively, but don't do so with the view that an SDNY or D.D.C. clerkship is materially different than a S.D. Fla., D.Del., or D.Mass. clerkship. Go look at any top firm and you'll find plenty of folks with non SDNY/D.D.C. clerkships. So if you aim only for the "top," just know you're limiting the likelihood that you clerk all for a silly TLS metric of prestige.

I would also add that clerking is perhaps the only year of your life where you can live in a non-major market and still develop professionally (as judged by NYC, DC, LA firms). So if you want to go work in, say, Miami for a year, do that. Or Anchorage or Detroit or Asheville. It is true that dockets differ between districts, and I would caution against a rural district in middle America for that reason, but you shouldn't let the prospect of a DDC/SDNY gold star stop you from applying to a coveted position in your dream city.

Thank you for the in depth answer and this mostly answers my question. I'm not looking to set myself up for anything fancy, just want to clerk and then go back to New York or DC. Was particularly interested in living in the West Coast to try it out (as seen by my D. Oreg, W.D. Wash., S.D. Cal., and E.D. Cal. questions). Sounds like all those districts have decent dockets rights? (I assume some have material differences, though, like the S.D. Cal. probably has a lot of immigration stuff.)

I am not familiar with the districts you mentioned, but I imagine they are fine. Just know, however, that it's uphill sledding wherever you go (just getting your resume seen is difficult), so apply broadly and have professors place some calls at your top choices. And if N.D. Cal. makes your list, just know they have a lot of patent work (though I don't know if all judges handle that caseload).

[WilliamFaulkner]

I have around a 3.9 at CLS which I think is competitive for SDNY/DDC but I personally am not that picky, I just want to go to any city on East or West Coast. On the other hand, I can only really clerk once on a district court and I don't want to "throw away" my opportunity at SDNY/DDC. Should I constrain myself to just the competitive districts or is a clerkship a clerkship and the difference between a district like SDNY/CD Cal. and like D. Conn./D. Mass./D.R.I. (for East Coast) and S.D. Cal./D. Oreg./W.D. Wash./E.D. Cal. (for West Coast) not really a big deal.

A 3.9 at CLS should be getting attention from SDNY and EDNY judges, especially those that hire frequently from CLS. If you can, you should apply for the district court externships, some of the judges hire their externs.

There are a lot of people with 3.9s from T14 schools. Or, those with 3.7+ and fancy ECs or professors calling or random connections, whatever.

There is no science to the clerkship hunt. It is random. If you want to clerk, apply broadly. If you are fine clerking one or two years after graduating, apply more selectively, but don't do so with the view that an SDNY or D.D.C. clerkship is materially different than a S.D. Fla., D.Del., or D.Mass. clerkship. Go look at any top firm and you'll find plenty of folks with non SDNY/D.D.C. clerkships. So if you aim only for the "top," just know you're limiting the likelihood that you clerk all for a silly TLS metric of prestige.

I would also add that clerking is perhaps the only year of your life where you can live in a non-major market and still develop professionally (as judged by NYC, DC, LA firms). So if you want to go work in, say, Miami for a year, do that. Or Anchorage or Detroit or Asheville. It is true that dockets differ between districts, and I would caution against a rural district in middle America for that reason, but you shouldn't let the prospect of a DDC/SDNY gold star stop you from applying to a coveted position in your dream city.

In a CLS class, the maximum number of RBGs/students with a 3.9 GPA typically ranges from 10 to 20. From my personal experience, every student in my year with those credentials who opted out of transactional work secured a clerkship in SDNY, EDNY, DNJ, or 2nd Circuit, provided they expressed interest. While some may not have been matched with their preferred judge, there was no shortage of opportunities.

While clerkships can be unpredictable, exceptional credentials certainly help a lot. Go to your professors and ask who they know and are willing to call for. I'm not a geography snob by any means, but there is zero point in OP going to Anchorage if they have no interest and want to stay in the NY area.

I agree that exceptional credentials help a lot. But I don't think they outweigh the unpredictable nature of clerkship hiring. As an example, I had tremendous success at the COA level, but found applying to district courts more difficult.

The point in going to Anchorage is that life is short and it mostly isn't about chasing gold stars. If OP wants to live in Anchorage, he or she should do so without regard for how it will affect his or her legal career. And based on what I have seen, it will not affect his or her legal career much if at all. That's my point. Susman or Cravath isn't OP's goal, and even if it were, I don't know if a District of Alaska would hurt, given his or her already stellar credentials.

[Anonymous User]

I have around a 3.9 at CLS which I think is competitive for SDNY/DDC but I personally am not that picky, I just want to go to any city on East or West Coast. On the other hand, I can only really clerk once on a district court and I don't want to "throw away" my opportunity at SDNY/DDC. Should I constrain myself to just the competitive districts or is a clerkship a clerkship and the difference between a district like SDNY/CD Cal. and like D. Conn./D. Mass./D.R.I. (for East Coast) and S.D. Cal./D. Oreg./W.D. Wash./E.D. Cal. (for West Coast) not really a big deal.

A 3.9 at CLS should be getting attention from SDNY and EDNY judges, especially those that hire frequently from CLS. If you can, you should apply for the district court externships, some of the judges hire their externs.

There are a lot of people with 3.9s from T14 schools. Or, those with 3.7+ and fancy ECs or professors calling or random connections, whatever.

There is no science to the clerkship hunt. It is random. If you want to clerk, apply broadly. If you are fine clerking one or two years after graduating, apply more selectively, but don't do so with the view that an SDNY or D.D.C. clerkship is materially different than a S.D. Fla., D.Del., or D.Mass. clerkship. Go look at any top firm and you'll find plenty of folks with non SDNY/D.D.C. clerkships. So if you aim only for the "top," just know you're limiting the likelihood that you clerk all for a silly TLS metric of prestige.

I would also add that clerking is perhaps the only year of your life where you can live in a non-major market and still develop professionally (as judged by NYC, DC, LA firms). So if you want to go work in, say, Miami for a year, do that. Or Anchorage or Detroit or Asheville. It is true that dockets differ between districts, and I would caution against a rural district in middle America for that reason, but you shouldn't let the prospect of a DDC/SDNY gold star stop you from applying to a coveted position in your dream city.

In a CLS class, the maximum number of RBGs/students with a 3.9 GPA typically ranges from 10 to 20. From my personal experience, every student in my year with those credentials who opted out of transactional work secured a clerkship in SDNY, EDNY, DNJ, or 2nd Circuit, provided they expressed interest. While some may not have been matched with their preferred judge, there was no shortage of opportunities.

While clerkships can be unpredictable, exceptional credentials certainly help a lot. Go to your professors and ask who they know and are willing to call for. I'm not a geography snob by any means, but there is zero point in OP going to Anchorage if they have no interest and want to stay in the NY area.

I agree that exceptional credentials help a lot. But I don't think they outweigh the unpredictable nature of clerkship hiring. As an example, I had tremendous success at the COA level, but found applying to district courts more difficult.

The point in going to Anchorage is that life is short and it mostly isn't about chasing gold stars. If OP wants to live in Anchorage, he or she should do so without regard for how it will affect his or her legal career. And based on what I have seen, it will not affect his or her legal career much if at all. That's my point. Susman or Cravath isn't OP's goal, and even if it were, I don't know if a District of Alaska would hurt, given his or her already stellar credentials.

OP here. To give more clarity, Susman isn't my goal, but Cravath is (or more to the point generic V10 in NY or DC is). I'm going to NY, but thinking of switching to DC.

[Anonymous User]

I have around a 3.9 at CLS which I think is competitive for SDNY/DDC but I personally am not that picky, I just want to go to any city on East or West Coast. On the other hand, I can only really clerk once on a district court and I don't want to "throw away" my opportunity at SDNY/DDC. Should I constrain myself to just the competitive districts or is a clerkship a clerkship and the difference between a district like SDNY/CD Cal. and like D. Conn./D. Mass./D.R.I. (for East Coast) and S.D. Cal./D. Oreg./W.D. Wash./E.D. Cal. (for West Coast) not really a big deal.

A 3.9 at CLS should be getting attention from SDNY and EDNY judges, especially those that hire frequently from CLS. If you can, you should apply for the district court externships, some of the judges hire their externs.

There are a lot of people with 3.9s from T14 schools. Or, those with 3.7+ and fancy ECs or professors calling or random connections, whatever.

There is no science to the clerkship hunt. It is random. If you want to clerk, apply broadly. If you are fine clerking one or two years after graduating, apply more selectively, but don't do so with the view that an SDNY or D.D.C. clerkship is materially different than a S.D. Fla., D.Del., or D.Mass. clerkship. Go look at any top firm and you'll find plenty of folks with non SDNY/D.D.C. clerkships. So if you aim only for the "top," just know you're limiting the likelihood that you clerk all for a silly TLS metric of prestige.

I would also add that clerking is perhaps the only year of your life where you can live in a non-major market and still develop professionally (as judged by NYC, DC, LA firms). So if you want to go work in, say, Miami for a year, do that. Or Anchorage or Detroit or Asheville. It is true that dockets differ between districts, and I would caution against a rural district in middle America for that reason, but you shouldn't let the prospect of a DDC/SDNY gold star stop you from applying to a coveted position in your dream city.

I feel like there is good advice and bad advice here. Everything about the application process - the competitiveness, the randomness, the interplay between timing and broad/narrow targeting - is accurate and good advice.

However, the idea that DDC/SDNY and EDMI/WDNC/D. AK are viewed largely the same and that any difference between them is just silly TLS preftige is just wrong. Also, those preftige clerkships tend to be overrepresented at the ~top firms~

[WilliamFaulkner]

I have around a 3.9 at CLS which I think is competitive for SDNY/DDC but I personally am not that picky, I just want to go to any city on East or West Coast. On the other hand, I can only really clerk once on a district court and I don't want to "throw away" my opportunity at SDNY/DDC. Should I constrain myself to just the competitive districts or is a clerkship a clerkship and the difference between a district like SDNY/CD Cal. and like D. Conn./D. Mass./D.R.I. (for East Coast) and S.D. Cal./D. Oreg./W.D. Wash./E.D. Cal. (for West Coast) not really a big deal.

A 3.9 at CLS should be getting attention from SDNY and EDNY judges, especially those that hire frequently from CLS. If you can, you should apply for the district court externships, some of the judges hire their externs.

There are a lot of people with 3.9s from T14 schools. Or, those with 3.7+ and fancy ECs or professors calling or random connections, whatever.

There is no science to the clerkship hunt. It is random. If you want to clerk, apply broadly. If you are fine clerking one or two years after graduating, apply more selectively, but don't do so with the view that an SDNY or D.D.C. clerkship is materially different than a S.D. Fla., D.Del., or D.Mass. clerkship. Go look at any top firm and you'll find plenty of folks with non SDNY/D.D.C. clerkships. So if you aim only for the "top," just know you're limiting the likelihood that you clerk all for a silly TLS metric of prestige.

I would also add that clerking is perhaps the only year of your life where you can live in a non-major market and still develop professionally (as judged by NYC, DC, LA firms). So if you want to go work in, say, Miami for a year, do that. Or Anchorage or Detroit or Asheville. It is true that dockets differ between districts, and I would caution against a rural district in middle America for that reason, but you shouldn't let the prospect of a DDC/SDNY gold star stop you from applying to a coveted position in your dream city.

In a CLS class, the maximum number of RBGs/students with a 3.9 GPA typically ranges from 10 to 20. From my personal experience, every student in my year with those credentials who opted out of transactional work secured a clerkship in SDNY, EDNY, DNJ, or 2nd Circuit, provided they expressed interest. While some may not have been matched with their preferred judge, there was no shortage of opportunities.

While clerkships can be unpredictable, exceptional credentials certainly help a lot. Go to your professors and ask who they know and are willing to call for. I'm not a geography snob by any means, but there is zero point in OP going to Anchorage if they have no interest and want to stay in the NY area.

I agree that exceptional credentials help a lot. But I don't think they outweigh the unpredictable nature of clerkship hiring. As an example, I had tremendous success at the COA level, but found applying to district courts more difficult.

The point in going to Anchorage is that life is short and it mostly isn't about chasing gold stars. If OP wants to live in Anchorage, he or she should do so without regard for how it will affect his or her legal career. And based on what I have seen, it will not affect his or her legal career much if at all. That's my point. Susman or Cravath isn't OP's goal, and even if it were, I don't know if a District of Alaska would hurt, given his or her already stellar credentials.

OP here. To give more clarity, Susman isn't my goal, but Cravath is (or more to the point generic V10 in NY or DC is). I'm going to NY, but thinking of switching to DC.

Then prioritize prestige, but recognize that D.D.C/S.D.N.Y. isn't head and shoulders above, say, D.N.J. (but probably District of Alaska). At the end of the day, absent S. Ct. or feeder COAs, a clerkship isn't going to move the needle much. See every post-clerkship hiring thread. So if Cravath is your goal, congrats!, you're well on your way there. D.D.C. would help you. SDNY would, too. But don't be despondent if you end up in, say, Philadelphia.

[Anonymous User]

If Cravath and similar firms are your goal, shouldn’t you be good with just a 3.9 from Columbia and getting a SA offer?

[Anonymous User]

If Cravath and similar firms are your goal, shouldn’t you be good with just a 3.9 from Columbia and getting a SA offer?

Yes I did (I'm a 3L right now). So I'm good there, but I just wanted to go to that firm for a year or two, clerk for a district court for the experience before returning to that firm or going to a firm in that same range.

[Anonymous User]

It all depends on your preferences

Do you want to be an AUSA in a particular district? Then it can be helpful to clerk there
Do you want to practice in a particular city? Can be helpful to clerk there either for (a) judicial relationships or (b) post-clerkship job recruiting
Do you want to move? If no, then stay in NY. There is honestly something to be said for not having to move to a random place for a year
Are there reasons you'd want to clerk for a particular judge outside of these markets? It's ok to be selective if you have good reason--a lot of the value will come down to how your judge handles chambers, what her reputation is, and the relationships that she has.

As others have said, a dist ct clerkship in the NY market should be attainable w/ good grades and recs from Columbia. It seems like that aligns with your interests and career goals the most, so why look at district court positions elsewhere?

And yes, "prestige districts" do have a higher reputation on avg. since the quality of judges on the district ct level is so variable. But if you have strong credentials from Columbia and clerk on a district somewhere else--especially if for a good judge--you will still get good opportunities based on your grades and resume (esp if you also clerk at the circuit level). And even within a district like SDNY, I think the specific judge can matter in terms of both reputation and the quality of your clerkship experience (I know that can be hard to gauge as a law student)

[Anonymous User]

I have around a 3.9 at CLS which I think is competitive for SDNY/DDC but I personally am not that picky, I just want to go to any city on East or West Coast. On the other hand, I can only really clerk once on a district court and I don't want to "throw away" my opportunity at SDNY/DDC. Should I constrain myself to just the competitive districts or is a clerkship a clerkship and the difference between a district like SDNY/CD Cal. and like D. Conn./D. Mass./D.R.I. (for East Coast) and S.D. Cal./D. Oreg./W.D. Wash./E.D. Cal. (for West Coast) not really a big deal.

A 3.9 at CLS should be getting attention from SDNY and EDNY judges, especially those that hire frequently from CLS. If you can, you should apply for the district court externships, some of the judges hire their externs.

There are a lot of people with 3.9s from T14 schools. Or, those with 3.7+ and fancy ECs or professors calling or random connections, whatever.

There is no science to the clerkship hunt. It is random. If you want to clerk, apply broadly. If you are fine clerking one or two years after graduating, apply more selectively, but don't do so with the view that an SDNY or D.D.C. clerkship is materially different than a S.D. Fla., D.Del., or D.Mass. clerkship. Go look at any top firm and you'll find plenty of folks with non SDNY/D.D.C. clerkships. So if you aim only for the "top," just know you're limiting the likelihood that you clerk all for a silly TLS metric of prestige.

I would also add that clerking is perhaps the only year of your life where you can live in a non-major market and still develop professionally (as judged by NYC, DC, LA firms). So if you want to go work in, say, Miami for a year, do that. Or Anchorage or Detroit or Asheville. It is true that dockets differ between districts, and I would caution against a rural district in middle America for that reason, but you shouldn't let the prospect of a DDC/SDNY gold star stop you from applying to a coveted position in your dream city.

This. A 3.9 from CLS would not be enough to stand out in my judges’ SDNY or CA2 chambers; the app pool is just crazy strong. Sure, you’d get a look and might be hired, but so might 80 other people with similar or better grades and schools. Doubly so if “about 3.9” means “3.85 Stone/Kent with no CLR”—in that case, you’re a pretty average CLS clerkship applicant.

Also preferring to clerk in D. Or. over NDIL because the former is “coastal” sounds like a parody. You’re not stupid, so don’t be stupid.

[Anonymous User]

I have around a 3.9 at CLS which I think is competitive for SDNY/DDC but I personally am not that picky, I just want to go to any city on East or West Coast. On the other hand, I can only really clerk once on a district court and I don't want to "throw away" my opportunity at SDNY/DDC. Should I constrain myself to just the competitive districts or is a clerkship a clerkship and the difference between a district like SDNY/CD Cal. and like D. Conn./D. Mass./D.R.I. (for East Coast) and S.D. Cal./D. Oreg./W.D. Wash./E.D. Cal. (for West Coast) not really a big deal.

A 3.9 at CLS should be getting attention from SDNY and EDNY judges, especially those that hire frequently from CLS. If you can, you should apply for the district court externships, some of the judges hire their externs.

There are a lot of people with 3.9s from T14 schools. Or, those with 3.7+ and fancy ECs or professors calling or random connections, whatever.

There is no science to the clerkship hunt. It is random. If you want to clerk, apply broadly. If you are fine clerking one or two years after graduating, apply more selectively, but don't do so with the view that an SDNY or D.D.C. clerkship is materially different than a S.D. Fla., D.Del., or D.Mass. clerkship. Go look at any top firm and you'll find plenty of folks with non SDNY/D.D.C. clerkships. So if you aim only for the "top," just know you're limiting the likelihood that you clerk all for a silly TLS metric of prestige.

I would also add that clerking is perhaps the only year of your life where you can live in a non-major market and still develop professionally (as judged by NYC, DC, LA firms). So if you want to go work in, say, Miami for a year, do that. Or Anchorage or Detroit or Asheville. It is true that dockets differ between districts, and I would caution against a rural district in middle America for that reason, but you shouldn't let the prospect of a DDC/SDNY gold star stop you from applying to a coveted position in your dream city.

Thank you for the in depth answer and this mostly answers my question. I'm not looking to set myself up for anything fancy, just want to clerk and then go back to New York or DC. Was particularly interested in living in the West Coast to try it out (as seen by my D. Oreg, W.D. Wash., S.D. Cal., and E.D. Cal. questions). Sounds like all those districts have decent dockets rights? (I assume some have material differences, though, like the S.D. Cal. probably has a lot of immigration stuff.)

ED Cal is the busiest court in the country due to a caseload/vacancy crisis, SD Cal is likely tons of immigration on the criminal side.

[Anonymous User]

I have around a 3.9 at CLS which I think is competitive for SDNY/DDC but I personally am not that picky, I just want to go to any city on East or West Coast. On the other hand, I can only really clerk once on a district court and I don't want to "throw away" my opportunity at SDNY/DDC. Should I constrain myself to just the competitive districts or is a clerkship a clerkship and the difference between a district like SDNY/CD Cal. and like D. Conn./D. Mass./D.R.I. (for East Coast) and S.D. Cal./D. Oreg./W.D. Wash./E.D. Cal. (for West Coast) not really a big deal.

A 3.9 at CLS should be getting attention from SDNY and EDNY judges, especially those that hire frequently from CLS. If you can, you should apply for the district court externships, some of the judges hire their externs.

There are a lot of people with 3.9s from T14 schools. Or, those with 3.7+ and fancy ECs or professors calling or random connections, whatever.

There is no science to the clerkship hunt. It is random. If you want to clerk, apply broadly. If you are fine clerking one or two years after graduating, apply more selectively, but don't do so with the view that an SDNY or D.D.C. clerkship is materially different than a S.D. Fla., D.Del., or D.Mass. clerkship. Go look at any top firm and you'll find plenty of folks with non SDNY/D.D.C. clerkships. So if you aim only for the "top," just know you're limiting the likelihood that you clerk all for a silly TLS metric of prestige.

I would also add that clerking is perhaps the only year of your life where you can live in a non-major market and still develop professionally (as judged by NYC, DC, LA firms). So if you want to go work in, say, Miami for a year, do that. Or Anchorage or Detroit or Asheville. It is true that dockets differ between districts, and I would caution against a rural district in middle America for that reason, but you shouldn't let the prospect of a DDC/SDNY gold star stop you from applying to a coveted position in your dream city.

This. A 3.9 from CLS would not be enough to stand out in my judges’ SDNY or CA2 chambers; the app pool is just crazy strong. Sure, you’d get a look and might be hired, but so might 80 other people with similar or better grades and schools. Doubly so if “about 3.9” means “3.85 Stone/Kent with no CLR”—in that case, you’re a pretty average CLS clerkship applicant.

Also preferring to clerk in D. Or. over NDIL because the former is “coastal” sounds like a parody. You’re not stupid, so don’t be stupid.

Is your SDNY judge one of the very competitive ones like Oetken or Furman or is it just a median SDNY judge. Not saying a 3.9 is guaranteed or anything, but surely a 3.9 would get more than just a look—i.e., it would be in the serious consideration pile? Although, what do I know, I didn't clerk there.

[Anonymous User]

Different poster. I clerked for a semi-feeder COA judge and am now clerking for a sdny judge that isn’t one of the two you mentioned. I am not sure what a “median” SDNY judge is but a 3.9 from Columbia with 2 years of big law is a pretty common applicant

[Anonymous User]

Different poster. I clerked for a semi-feeder COA judge and am now clerking for a sdny judge that isn’t one of the two you mentioned. I am not sure what a “median” SDNY judge is but a 3.9 from Columbia with 2 years of big law is a pretty common applicant

Damn so how do you all pick to interview. Is it just like whichever of the 3.9 CLS + 2 years biglaw applicant happens to catch your eye for some other reason.

[Anonymous User]

Different poster. I clerked for a semi-feeder COA judge and am now clerking for a sdny judge that isn’t one of the two you mentioned. I am not sure what a “median” SDNY judge is but a 3.9 from Columbia with 2 years of big law is a pretty common applicant

Damn so how do you all pick to interview. Is it just like whichever of the 3.9 CLS + 2 years biglaw applicant happens to catch your eye for some other reason.

Original poster. Just other gold stars—COA clerkships, strength of transcript, LR, connections and recs, career interests, life story and diversity, even higher than 3.9 grades, etc. Fwiw my judge was an “above-median” SDNY judge but not one you listed.

[Anonymous User]

Different poster. I clerked for a semi-feeder COA judge and am now clerking for a sdny judge that isn’t one of the two you mentioned. I am not sure what a “median” SDNY judge is but a 3.9 from Columbia with 2 years of big law is a pretty common applicant

Damn so how do you all pick to interview. Is it just like whichever of the 3.9 CLS + 2 years biglaw applicant happens to catch your eye for some other reason.

Original poster. Just other gold stars—COA clerkships, strength of transcript, LR, connections and recs, career interests, life story and diversity, even higher than 3.9 grades, etc. Fwiw my judge was an “above-median” SDNY judge but not one you listed.

So if I'm in a similar position to OP but have LR and COA clerkship in non-2/9/DC and not a feeder or semi-feeder, what can I do to get SDNY—just spray and pray at this point?

[Anonymous User]

Also preferring to clerk in D. Or. over NDIL because the former is “coastal” sounds like a parody. You’re not stupid, so don’t be stupid.

Not really? NDIL is the more competitive district with the more interesting caseload, by far. But OP has been given good advice on the value of "prestige" districts outside his/her home market by several posters. If OP would rather spend a year in Portland than deal with Chicago's brutal winter and megacity feel, I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Anonymous User]

Different poster. I clerked for a semi-feeder COA judge and am now clerking for a sdny judge that isn’t one of the two you mentioned. I am not sure what a “median” SDNY judge is but a 3.9 from Columbia with 2 years of big law is a pretty common applicant

Damn so how do you all pick to interview. Is it just like whichever of the 3.9 CLS + 2 years biglaw applicant happens to catch your eye for some other reason.

Original poster. Just other gold stars—COA clerkships, strength of transcript, LR, connections and recs, career interests, life story and diversity, even higher than 3.9 grades, etc. Fwiw my judge was an “above-median” SDNY judge but not one you listed.

So if I'm in a similar position to OP but have LR and COA clerkship in non-2/9/DC and not a feeder or semi-feeder, what can I do to get SDNY—just spray and pray at this point?

How far along in school are you? Assuming it's not your 3L spring now:

- Take classes with professors connected to SDNY judges ("name" professors, former clerks/AUSAs from the district, etc.). Go to office hours. Crush your exam/paper and get a strong LOR or phone call from a professor the judge knows.
- If you are not on CLR (or even if you are), get a note published
- If you are on CLR, run for a senior position on the administrative board
- Try to boost your GPA even higher, into the 3.95 range
- Spray and pray. Apply to the whole court, keep applying over multiple cycles, nail your interviews. Talking to former clerks ahead of your interview can go a long way.

[Anonymous User]

Different poster. I clerked for a semi-feeder COA judge and am now clerking for a sdny judge that isn’t one of the two you mentioned. I am not sure what a “median” SDNY judge is but a 3.9 from Columbia with 2 years of big law is a pretty common applicant

Damn so how do you all pick to interview. Is it just like whichever of the 3.9 CLS + 2 years biglaw applicant happens to catch your eye for some other reason.

Original poster. Just other gold stars—COA clerkships, strength of transcript, LR, connections and recs, career interests, life story and diversity, even higher than 3.9 grades, etc. Fwiw my judge was an “above-median” SDNY judge but not one you listed.

So if I'm in a similar position to OP but have LR and COA clerkship in non-2/9/DC and not a feeder or semi-feeder, what can I do to get SDNY—just spray and pray at this point?

How far along in school are you? Assuming it's not your 3L spring now:

- Take classes with professors connected to SDNY judges ("name" professors, former clerks/AUSAs from the district, etc.). Go to office hours. Crush your exam/paper and get a strong LOR or phone call from a professor the judge knows.
- If you are not on CLR (or even if you are), get a note published
- If you are on CLR, run for a senior position on the administrative board
- Try to boost your GPA even higher, into the 3.95 range
- Spray and pray. Apply to the whole court, keep applying over multiple cycles, nail your interviews. Talking to former clerks ahead of your interview can go a long way.

Am in 3L spring, unfortunately.