How to develop relationships with professors? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm a 2L at CCN, roughly top 15%. No LR. I really want to clerk, and I intended to apply on-plan, but I feel like I missed the ball entirely on cultivating good recommenders. There's not a single professor I have a real working relationship with, and I'm not sure what I was supposed to do to develop them.

I participate in class as best I can, and I go to office hours with real questions. At the end of 1L, I emailed every professor who gave me at least an A-, expressing my interest in being their TA or RA during the upcoming year, but none of them selected me. As a 2L, I've taken almost all black letter law classes, so they've tended to have around 100 students, and the professors don't leave much room for voluntary participation. I'm not sure how to make myself stand out without being obnoxious and asking stupid questions.

In undergrad, I made relationships with professors by taking multiple classes with them. This spring has been my first chance to take a second class with a professor, and it's a seminar, but I'm not sure about a LOR since he's high profile and I only got an A- in my first class with him. I've also been lucky enough to get A's in a couple of classes taught by very highly regarded professors/recommenders, but I worry I don't know them well enough to ask for a LOR when every other clerkship gunner in the school wants one from them too.

What am I doing wrong? I feel like I missed a step of the process that everyone else worked through. How do I fix this going forward, and is it too late to make things work on-plan?

[Anonymous User]

When you say they did not select you, can you be more specific. Were they like "I'm not looking for any RAs or TAs" or were they like huh maybe send me your resume and then they rejected you. Also you can still clerk from CCN and top 15% with generic recs—particularly if this is Chicago.

[Anonymous User]

When you say they did not select you, can you be more specific. Were they like "I'm not looking for any RAs or TAs" or were they like huh maybe send me your resume and then they rejected you. Also you can still clerk from CCN and top 15% with generic recs—particularly if this is Chicago.

OP here. One professor did not need any. The others who responded said something akin to "I haven't started picking TA's yet, but I will definitely keep you in mind when I do!" One mentioned they didn't need RA's. None got back to me after that, and they're now teaching those 1L classes with other TA's.

[Anonymous User]

This definitely isn’t Chicago (its BLLs aren’t that big)

But regardless it sounds like you’re completely fine. Profs who will write good recs for people who just got As in their classes and went to office hours. The RAing-for-seven-profs thing is unique to CLS and NYU because they give credit so students use it to pad their GPAs, that’s not the norm. Clerkship applicants psych themselves out, standards for relationships for clerkship recs are not the same as they are for law school or undergrad recs.

[Anonymous User]

This definitely isn’t Chicago (its BLLs aren’t that big)

But regardless it sounds like you’re completely fine. Profs who will write good recs for people who just got As in their classes and went to office hours. The RAing-for-seven-profs thing is unique to CLS and NYU because they give credit so students use it to pad their GPAs, that’s not the norm. Clerkship applicants psych themselves out, standards for relationships for clerkship recs are not the same as they are for law school or undergrad recs.

NYU does not give graded credit for RAs, just ungraded credit. There is this weird thing called Directed Research we have where you get a free A and write a random paper on whatever you want for a Professor, it's like super abused by kids padding their gpa although my understanding is judges may get a little suspicious when they see like 4 separate DRs on a transcript.

More to OPs point, as long as the Professors don't dislike you its fine (certainly not disqualifying). Just reintroduced yourself to the Professors, remind them who you are, ask to meet in person, and ask for LOR. They probably won't call for you (although they might!), but all you need is three LORs and then just let your grades hopefully do the rest.

[Anonymous User]

More to OPs point, as long as the Professors don't dislike you its fine (certainly not disqualifying). Just reintroduced yourself to the Professors, remind them who you are, ask to meet in person, and ask for LOR. They probably won't call for you (although they might!), but all you need is three LORs and then just let your grades hopefully do the rest.

This is solid advice here. I'm pretty introverted and not a gunner or "academic" type (who will talk about papers, etc., with professor out of a love of the law that few have). I got three very solid LORs from professors whose classes I did well in by doing little things like making a point to make small talk with them before/after class, trying to participate once every week or so, and getting one extended outside-the-classroom conversation with them to let them get to know me a little as a person. This can come in office hours, but can also come at things like receptions/events.

If your school has a "take your professor to lunch" program, USE IT--especially if you're the type (like me) who finds office hours a little intimidating, you'll never get a better chance to build a rapport with them. Come off as normal, interested in their career/research, but not as an obvious suckup, and that'll get you a foundation that (with a good class performance) will turn into a good LOR.

[Anonymous User]

More to OPs point, as long as the Professors don't dislike you its fine (certainly not disqualifying). Just reintroduced yourself to the Professors, remind them who you are, ask to meet in person, and ask for LOR. They probably won't call for you (although they might!), but all you need is three LORs and then just let your grades hopefully do the rest.

This is solid advice here. I'm pretty introverted and not a gunner or "academic" type (who will talk about papers, etc., with professor out of a love of the law that few have). I got three very solid LORs from professors whose classes I did well in by doing little things like making a point to make small talk with them before/after class, trying to participate once every week or so, and getting one extended outside-the-classroom conversation with them to let them get to know me a little as a person. This can come in office hours, but can also come at things like receptions/events.

If your school has a "take your professor to lunch" program, USE IT--especially if you're the type (like me) who finds office hours a little intimidating, you'll never get a better chance to build a rapport with them. Come off as normal, interested in their career/research, but not as an obvious suckup, and that'll get you a foundation that (with a good class performance) will turn into a good LOR.

Agree with everything that's been said. I will add: You don't need to do well with a Professor to have them write a rec or make a call for you. Professors remember passion and curiosity because they likely share those traits (if they like their job and make an effort to be good at it). Offer to RA for a Professor even if you didn't get an A in their class—that way, they can see your writing and research skills, as well as your ability to meet deadlines and communicate effectively, and attest to these things in your recommendation or over the phone with a Judge. You don't need to suck up or sacrifice your well-being chasing an A to do this; just be curious, ask questions when you have them, and let Professors know that you're there and interested.

I'll add that I punched above my GPA when it comes to the judges who hired me. And I think a big part of that was the fact that my recommenders could speak honestly and knowledgeably about my personality, my writing, my research skills, and my ability to conduct myself as an employee.