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rufkmAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:24 pmT6, FedSoc, borderline summa, but missing a number of key clerkship classes (mainly Evidence and FedCourts but more rigorous than average student, probably). 3L.
Mostly interested in CA2, so really asking how hardline those judges are about specific classes
Talk to your fed soc contacts. You're probably fine especially if you do it through fed soc.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:24 pmT6, FedSoc, borderline summa, but missing a number of key clerkship classes (mainly Evidence and FedCourts but more rigorous than average student, probably). 3L.
Mostly interested in CA2, so really asking how hardline those judges are about specific classes
Why don't you just take at least one of Fed Courts or Evidence now? T6 borderline summa is obviously competitive regardless. And why mainly interested in CA2?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:24 pmT6, FedSoc, borderline summa, but missing a number of key clerkship classes (mainly Evidence and FedCourts but more rigorous than average student, probably). 3L.
Mostly interested in CA2, so really asking how hardline those judges are about specific classes
I don't think they necessarily care for the knowledge, but it is considered a "difficult" class that they like to see. Also sometimes there are evidence issues on appeal.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 9:42 amDoes court of appeals care about evidence? I thought that’s a d.ct. concern, given that evidence isn’t actually introduced at Appellate level.
Not really the point of this thread, but Matey is the only Newark CA3 Fedsoc judge. Chagares basically only hires liberals despite being a Republican appointee.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:06 amConfused why you haven’t applied already as a Fed Soc 3L, though I guess CLS and NYU don’t give good clerkship advice. Your odds are good in my opinion as a former CA2 clerk but you should apply beyond CA2 (e.g. Chagares and Matey in Newark). Probably nobody’s going to be able to answer something as niche as how Sullivan feels about admin and it’s not in your control anyway.
I disagree. I think Evidence is one of the few classes that judges expect to see on a transcript.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 10:03 amI don't think they necessarily care for the knowledge, but it is considered a "difficult" class that they like to see. Also sometimes there are evidence issues on appeal.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 9:42 amDoes court of appeals care about evidence? I thought that’s a d.ct. concern, given that evidence isn’t actually introduced at Appellate level.
I think everyone is kinda getting away from the important things hereAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:24 pmT6, FedSoc, borderline summa, but missing a number of key clerkship classes (mainly Evidence and FedCourts but more rigorous than average student, probably). 3L.
Mostly interested in CA2, so really asking how hardline those judges are about specific classes
That's fine if this is a semester system, in fact, it is above fine. The general consensus is try to take 2 black letters a semester/quarter.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:42 pmPiggybacking: what do you guys think of 2L with five black letters, two seminars, and an externship? (As opposed to six black letters, one seminar, and an externship.)
Yeah, I mean, the vast majority of criminal appeals involve evidentiary issues (civil have a lot, too, esp. experts). That said, I think the degree to which judges want to see specific classes varies a lot. Unless you have very insider knowledge, it's going to be really hard to assess from the outside which judges will care (and you should still apply anyway, let them reject you).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 11:28 amI disagree. I think Evidence is one of the few classes that judges expect to see on a transcript.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 10:03 amI don't think they necessarily care for the knowledge, but it is considered a "difficult" class that they like to see. Also sometimes there are evidence issues on appeal.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 9:42 amDoes court of appeals care about evidence? I thought that’s a d.ct. concern, given that evidence isn’t actually introduced at Appellate level.
Yeah the only reason they wouldn’t be fine is that they’re apparently limited to CA2Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 11:35 amI think everyone is kinda getting away from the important things hereAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:24 pmT6, FedSoc, borderline summa, but missing a number of key clerkship classes (mainly Evidence and FedCourts but more rigorous than average student, probably). 3L.
Mostly interested in CA2, so really asking how hardline those judges are about specific classes
If you are fed soc + T6 + summa grades + above average rigour, you are almost certainly fine. There are people with below median grades at my school who pulled COA clerkships via fed soc pipeline before 2L grades even dropped.
Fed courts is the bigger omission than evidence, but take it this semester?
This isn’t right fwiw, the vast majority of criminal appeals are from guilty pleas and evidentiary objections are nearly unreviewable on appeal. Evidence came up a lot in my SDNY clerkship and literally never in my CA2 one from what I can remember. But you should take it just bc it’s pretty essential knowledge for legal practice.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 8:05 pmYeah, I mean, the vast majority of criminal appeals involve evidentiary issues (civil have a lot, too, esp. experts). That said, I think the degree to which judges want to see specific classes varies a lot. Unless you have very insider knowledge, it's going to be really hard to assess from the outside which judges will care (and you should still apply anyway, let them reject you).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 11:28 amI disagree. I think Evidence is one of the few classes that judges expect to see on a transcript.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 10:03 amI don't think they necessarily care for the knowledge, but it is considered a "difficult" class that they like to see. Also sometimes there are evidence issues on appeal.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 9:42 amDoes court of appeals care about evidence? I thought that’s a d.ct. concern, given that evidence isn’t actually introduced at Appellate level.
Fed Courts, Evidence, Crim Pro, Advanced Civ Pro, Admin are all better to have than to not have. My hot take is that you should also take Bankruptcy—it comes up a good amount, involves basically an entirely different legal system, and is important to understand for practice.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 11:56 amWhat are the "must take" clerkship classes outside of the 1L stuff: Contracts, Con Law, Torts, Crim, Civ Pro, and Property? Fed Courts, Admin, and Crim Pro?
Okay, that's fair, I realized I was assuming based on my state COA clerkship, where criminal appeals do often raise evidentiary issues, because more state cases go to trial (also plenty of published federal COA opinions are trial cases that do involve evidentiary issues, but admittedly that doesn't mean they'll make up a lot of a given clerk's caseload in one term). And obviously what a state appeals court judge wants is moot here.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 10:50 pmThis isn’t right fwiw, the vast majority of criminal appeals are from guilty pleas and evidentiary objections are nearly unreviewable on appeal. Evidence came up a lot in my SDNY clerkship and literally never in my CA2 one from what I can remember. But you should take it just bc it’s pretty essential knowledge for legal practice.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 8:05 pmYeah, I mean, the vast majority of criminal appeals involve evidentiary issues (civil have a lot, too, esp. experts). That said, I think the degree to which judges want to see specific classes varies a lot. Unless you have very insider knowledge, it's going to be really hard to assess from the outside which judges will care (and you should still apply anyway, let them reject you).
yeah, and even then - someone like Menashi is almost certainly going to take themAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 10:48 pmYeah the only reason they wouldn’t be fine is that they’re apparently limited to CA2Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 11:35 amI think everyone is kinda getting away from the important things hereAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:24 pmT6, FedSoc, borderline summa, but missing a number of key clerkship classes (mainly Evidence and FedCourts but more rigorous than average student, probably). 3L.
Mostly interested in CA2, so really asking how hardline those judges are about specific classes
If you are fed soc + T6 + summa grades + above average rigour, you are almost certainly fine. There are people with below median grades at my school who pulled COA clerkships via fed soc pipeline before 2L grades even dropped.
Fed courts is the bigger omission than evidence, but take it this semester?
I’m not the authority on this stuff by any means but since the class is literally required to graduate I just can’t imagine judges blaming you for taking itAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 3:28 pmDoes Professional Responsibility count as black letter?
At my school PR was 2 credits instead of 4, so it felt like half a BLL class. No judge is going to ding you for it as it is required, but I was advised to be extra safe and take PR with two other BLLs just in case. Was that overly neurotic? Maybe, but it was no big deal since PR was kind of a joke anyways.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:21 pmI’m not the authority on this stuff by any means but since the class is literally required to graduate I just can’t imagine judges blaming you for taking itAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 3:28 pmDoes Professional Responsibility count as black letter?