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Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 08, 2023 3:55 pm

OP, is your district clerkship in an area without much biglaw?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:58 pm

Thanks to everybody letting me know I haven't struck out but I would like to plan as soon as possible for my job next year - so far, not having an offer for employment in the next seven months is very scary.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:58 pm

Thanks to everybody letting me know I haven't struck out but I would like to plan as soon as possible for my job next year - so far, not having an offer for employment in the next seven months is very scary.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:36 pm

I know it is still early in the 2023 hiring cycle for clerks, but I am coming off a 1-year district court clerkship and have completely struck out gunning for lit in CA, both at big law and mid-size shops. The few nibbles and single callback I have had so far have failed to yield an offer. I did not summer at a law firm either 1L or 2L summer.

I was below median at CCN and got probably lucky to find a d.ct. clerkship in the first place, although I'm 100% sure my judge likes me and has spoken/will speak highly about me if asked.

My judge is also well-liked in my state and has told me they think I would enjoy a clerkship at the state's supreme court. The state is not really close to California but I do enjoy clerking. My end goal is still a firm that pays close to market so I can service my debt. Thoughts?

ughbugchugplug wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:36 pm

I know it is still early in the 2023 hiring cycle for clerks, but I am coming off a 1-year district court clerkship and have completely struck out gunning for lit in CA, both at big law and mid-size shops. The few nibbles and single callback I have had so far have failed to yield an offer. I did not summer at a law firm either 1L or 2L summer.

I was below median at CCN and got probably lucky to find a d.ct. clerkship in the first place, although I'm 100% sure my judge likes me and has spoken/will speak highly about me if asked.

My judge is also well-liked in my state and has told me they think I would enjoy a clerkship at the state's supreme court. The state is not really close to California but I do enjoy clerking. My end goal is still a firm that pays close to market so I can service my debt. Thoughts?

I had very good credentials and a V5 job, left for a SSC clerkship, and found it significantly hurt my marketability. I would not recommend them for Big Law. But YMMV.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:45 pm

ughbugchugplug wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:36 pm

I know it is still early in the 2023 hiring cycle for clerks, but I am coming off a 1-year district court clerkship and have completely struck out gunning for lit in CA, both at big law and mid-size shops. The few nibbles and single callback I have had so far have failed to yield an offer. I did not summer at a law firm either 1L or 2L summer.

I was below median at CCN and got probably lucky to find a d.ct. clerkship in the first place, although I'm 100% sure my judge likes me and has spoken/will speak highly about me if asked.

My judge is also well-liked in my state and has told me they think I would enjoy a clerkship at the state's supreme court. The state is not really close to California but I do enjoy clerking. My end goal is still a firm that pays close to market so I can service my debt. Thoughts?

I had very good credentials and a V5 job, left for a SSC clerkship, and found it significantly hurt my marketability. I would not recommend them for Big Law. But YMMV.

Can you speak more on this? In what ways did it hurt your marketability?

nixy wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:06 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:45 pm

ughbugchugplug wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:36 pm

I know it is still early in the 2023 hiring cycle for clerks, but I am coming off a 1-year district court clerkship and have completely struck out gunning for lit in CA, both at big law and mid-size shops. The few nibbles and single callback I have had so far have failed to yield an offer. I did not summer at a law firm either 1L or 2L summer.

I was below median at CCN and got probably lucky to find a d.ct. clerkship in the first place, although I'm 100% sure my judge likes me and has spoken/will speak highly about me if asked.

My judge is also well-liked in my state and has told me they think I would enjoy a clerkship at the state's supreme court. The state is not really close to California but I do enjoy clerking. My end goal is still a firm that pays close to market so I can service my debt. Thoughts?

I had very good credentials and a V5 job, left for a SSC clerkship, and found it significantly hurt my marketability. I would not recommend them for Big Law. But YMMV.

Can you speak more on this? In what ways did it hurt your marketability?

I have a hard time seeing a SSC actively *hurt* someone's marketability in a vacuum. I can see the above specific sequence of events raising questions for employers - why did they leave a V5 job for a SSC clerkship? were they going to get fired from the V5? did they not want to be in biglaw? Whether or fair or not, I think that leaving a V5 job for a "mere" SSC (assuming it wasn't with one of the few sort of feeder-y state justices) could look unusual. Also, depending on where the SSC clerkship was (and where the V5 was), what did it suggest about where they wanted to practice (like was the SSC in/near the market they targeted after the fact)?

I think the impact of a SSC for someone who's never had a law firm job and is trying to break into a law firm would be different. It may not add much after already doing a federal clerkship, admittedly.

That said, I still think it's too early to say that the OP has struck out, and that if they bail on the job search now to take another clerkship, they're going to be in the exact same position next year. If the SSC is in their target market, they clerk for an established/well-known/well-liked judge who goes to bat for their clerks, and they spend the year locally networking their ass off, then it may help them in their job search, but they will have to put in that work. Given that the SSC isn't in their target market, it would depend probably on how close the legal markets are.

(WRT getting into mid/biglaw, the other thing that hasn't really come up is what experience the OP actually has - if they didn't work in a firm either 1L or 2L year, what did they do instead?)

ughbugchugplug wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:30 am

nixy wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:06 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:45 pm

ughbugchugplug wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:36 pm

I know it is still early in the 2023 hiring cycle for clerks, but I am coming off a 1-year district court clerkship and have completely struck out gunning for lit in CA, both at big law and mid-size shops. The few nibbles and single callback I have had so far have failed to yield an offer. I did not summer at a law firm either 1L or 2L summer.

I was below median at CCN and got probably lucky to find a d.ct. clerkship in the first place, although I'm 100% sure my judge likes me and has spoken/will speak highly about me if asked.

My judge is also well-liked in my state and has told me they think I would enjoy a clerkship at the state's supreme court. The state is not really close to California but I do enjoy clerking. My end goal is still a firm that pays close to market so I can service my debt. Thoughts?

I had very good credentials and a V5 job, left for a SSC clerkship, and found it significantly hurt my marketability. I would not recommend them for Big Law. But YMMV.

Can you speak more on this? In what ways did it hurt your marketability?

I have a hard time seeing a SSC actively *hurt* someone's marketability in a vacuum. I can see the above specific sequence of events raising questions for employers - why did they leave a V5 job for a SSC clerkship? were they going to get fired from the V5? did they not want to be in biglaw? Whether or fair or not, I think that leaving a V5 job for a "mere" SSC (assuming it wasn't with one of the few sort of feeder-y state justices) could look unusual. Also, depending on where the SSC clerkship was (and where the V5 was), what did it suggest about where they wanted to practice (like was the SSC in/near the market they targeted after the fact)?

I think the impact of a SSC for someone who's never had a law firm job and is trying to break into a law firm would be different. It may not add much after already doing a federal clerkship, admittedly.

That said, I still think it's too early to say that the OP has struck out, and that if they bail on the job search now to take another clerkship, they're going to be in the exact same position next year. If the SSC is in their target market, they clerk for an established/well-known/well-liked judge who goes to bat for their clerks, and they spend the year locally networking their ass off, then it may help them in their job search, but they will have to put in that work. Given that the SSC isn't in their target market, it would depend probably on how close the legal markets are.

(WRT getting into mid/biglaw, the other thing that hasn't really come up is what experience the OP actually has - if they didn't work in a firm either 1L or 2L year, what did they do instead?)

I went to the SSC after a year at the V5 because I already had it before law school ended. The post clerkship hiring market was terrible and most firms do not want SSC compared to district court clerks. I think I had maybe 3 interviews despite being T14 top 5%. I attribute this to being because the SSC was out of state, but who knows. In my experience in general people overstate how valuable large firms find clerkships.

But yeah, it’s way too early to think the post clerkship hiring market is over, and another round of clerking will leave you in the same spot you’re currently in. The best time for post clerkship hiring in my experience is June+ because then you can get jobs that are just open because they need someone rather than being hired way in advance.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:11 am

ughbugchugplug wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:30 am

nixy wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:06 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:45 pm

ughbugchugplug wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:36 pm

I know it is still early in the 2023 hiring cycle for clerks, but I am coming off a 1-year district court clerkship and have completely struck out gunning for lit in CA, both at big law and mid-size shops. The few nibbles and single callback I have had so far have failed to yield an offer. I did not summer at a law firm either 1L or 2L summer.

I was below median at CCN and got probably lucky to find a d.ct. clerkship in the first place, although I'm 100% sure my judge likes me and has spoken/will speak highly about me if asked.

My judge is also well-liked in my state and has told me they think I would enjoy a clerkship at the state's supreme court. The state is not really close to California but I do enjoy clerking. My end goal is still a firm that pays close to market so I can service my debt. Thoughts?

I had very good credentials and a V5 job, left for a SSC clerkship, and found it significantly hurt my marketability. I would not recommend them for Big Law. But YMMV.

Can you speak more on this? In what ways did it hurt your marketability?

I have a hard time seeing a SSC actively *hurt* someone's marketability in a vacuum. I can see the above specific sequence of events raising questions for employers - why did they leave a V5 job for a SSC clerkship? were they going to get fired from the V5? did they not want to be in biglaw? Whether or fair or not, I think that leaving a V5 job for a "mere" SSC (assuming it wasn't with one of the few sort of feeder-y state justices) could look unusual. Also, depending on where the SSC clerkship was (and where the V5 was), what did it suggest about where they wanted to practice (like was the SSC in/near the market they targeted after the fact)?

I think the impact of a SSC for someone who's never had a law firm job and is trying to break into a law firm would be different. It may not add much after already doing a federal clerkship, admittedly.

That said, I still think it's too early to say that the OP has struck out, and that if they bail on the job search now to take another clerkship, they're going to be in the exact same position next year. If the SSC is in their target market, they clerk for an established/well-known/well-liked judge who goes to bat for their clerks, and they spend the year locally networking their ass off, then it may help them in their job search, but they will have to put in that work. Given that the SSC isn't in their target market, it would depend probably on how close the legal markets are.

(WRT getting into mid/biglaw, the other thing that hasn't really come up is what experience the OP actually has - if they didn't work in a firm either 1L or 2L year, what did they do instead?)

I went to the SSC after a year at the V5 because I already had it before law school ended. The post clerkship hiring market was terrible and most firms do not want SSC compared to district court clerks. I think I had maybe 3 interviews despite being T14 top 5%. I attribute this to being because the SSC was out of state, but who knows. In my experience in general people overstate how valuable large firms find clerkships.

But yeah, it’s way too early to think the post clerkship hiring market is over, and another round of clerking will leave you in the same spot you’re currently in. The best time for post clerkship hiring in my experience is June+ because then you can get jobs that are just open because they need someone rather than being hired way in advance.

Were you not able to go back to your prior firm?

ughbugchugplug wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:28 am

No, I couldn’t do that either. Staffing was rough my first year - the first year lit associates started a weekly book club meeting because nobody had any work to do, and they pushed like 3-4 of us into PE (not me though). I think I billed like 700 (and about the same amount in pro bono to keep myself busy). Doubt i would’ve been laid off, but I think they took the opportunity of the clerkship to trim the headcount a bit.

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:37 am

ughbugchugplug wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:28 am

No, I couldn’t do that either. Staffing was rough my first year - the first year lit associates started a weekly book club meeting because nobody had any work to do, and they pushed like 3-4 of us into PE (not me though). I think I billed like 700 (and about the same amount in pro bono to keep myself busy). Doubt i would’ve been laid off, but I think they took the opportunity of the clerkship to trim the headcount a bit.

wow that is super frustrating because that kind of behavior by the firm basically disincentivizes peoples to clerk...I hope you don't feel regrets about your clerkship, and it sounds like you probably don't because you landed somewhere else

ughbugchugplug wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:35 am

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:37 am

ughbugchugplug wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:28 am

No, I couldn’t do that either. Staffing was rough my first year - the first year lit associates started a weekly book club meeting because nobody had any work to do, and they pushed like 3-4 of us into PE (not me though). I think I billed like 700 (and about the same amount in pro bono to keep myself busy). Doubt i would’ve been laid off, but I think they took the opportunity of the clerkship to trim the headcount a bit.

wow that is super frustrating because that kind of behavior by the firm basically disincentivizes peoples to clerk...I hope you don't feel regrets about your clerkship, and it sounds like you probably don't because you landed somewhere else

Oh I regret it quite a bit. I didn’t even like the SSC clerkship. I did land somewhere else but the stress of losing my (expected) job and then having bad opportunities in the post clerkship market took a real toll. I developed panic attacks and ultimately turned down a job offer at Quinn in lieu of a mid sized firm because I didn’t think I could hack it in big law after that experience. Would not recommend!

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:01 pm

ughbugchugplug wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:35 am

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:37 am

ughbugchugplug wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:28 am

No, I couldn’t do that either. Staffing was rough my first year - the first year lit associates started a weekly book club meeting because nobody had any work to do, and they pushed like 3-4 of us into PE (not me though). I think I billed like 700 (and about the same amount in pro bono to keep myself busy). Doubt i would’ve been laid off, but I think they took the opportunity of the clerkship to trim the headcount a bit.

wow that is super frustrating because that kind of behavior by the firm basically disincentivizes peoples to clerk...I hope you don't feel regrets about your clerkship, and it sounds like you probably don't because you landed somewhere else

Oh I regret it quite a bit. I didn’t even like the SSC clerkship. I did land somewhere else but the stress of losing my (expected) job and then having bad opportunities in the post clerkship market took a real toll. I developed panic attacks and ultimately turned down a job offer at Quinn in lieu of a mid sized firm because I didn’t think I could hack it in big law after that experience. Would not recommend!

I don’t understand how you said a few posts ago that your marketability decreased significantly, but then you say how you turned down an offer from Quinn and had multiple offers post-clerkship. Do you see the disconnect here? It’s a little disingenuous.

nixy wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:13 pm

Yeah, I don’t think the SSC clerkship here actually hurt, rather than just not helping compared with a DCt clerkship (which you didn’t have). I suppose it hurt to the extent that leaving for the clerkship provided the opportunity for the V5 to cut you, but it sounds like the issue is much more that your firm was shitty and the job market was shitty.

Totally get wishing you hadn’t done it under those circumstances, but I don’t think the logical conclusion is that the SSC made you less marketable, just that the circumstances/timing were unfortunately really bad. Post-clerkship hiring is never the same as OCI (which goes to your point that clerkships aren’t as desirable as people think, which I generally agree with - they’re great credentials but I don’t think they usually transform candidates for biglaw jobs).

ughbugchugplug wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:30 pm

nixy wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:13 pm

Yeah, I don’t think the SSC clerkship here actually hurt, rather than just not helping compared with a DCt clerkship (which you didn’t have). I suppose it hurt to the extent that leaving for the clerkship provided the opportunity for the V5 to cut you, but it sounds like the issue is much more that your firm was shitty and the job market was shitty.

Totally get wishing you hadn’t done it under those circumstances, but I don’t think the logical conclusion is that the SSC made you less marketable, just that the circumstances/timing were unfortunately really bad. Post-clerkship hiring is never the same as OCI (which goes to your point that clerkships aren’t as desirable as people think, which I generally agree with - they’re great credentials but I don’t think they usually transform candidates for biglaw jobs).

Fair point. I truly regret the clerkship, but it may have really been more the firm than the clerkship itself that caused the problem.