Must-take classes for clerkships? Forum

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Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:54 pm

I'm a 2L hoping to apply for clerkships next summer. Are there any classes I should absolutely take before then (vs. telling judges "I'll happily take X if you'd like me to" in an interview)? Planning to take evidence. Not interested in DC Circuit; would like to avoid taking admin if possible. (Not interested in it.) Or does it not matter much as long as I'm taking classes that aren't "Law and X" milquetoast seminars?

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:15 pm

In no particular order and some of course more important than others. Admin, Fed Courts, Criminal Procedure, Evidence, Legislation and Regulation, Advanced/Complex Litigation, Con Law or Advanced Con Law if that is offered.

Must have would be Admin and Fed Courts for Circuit and Evidence for district. Just make sure you're taking real classes.

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:23 pm

You technically don't have to take anything, but Fed Courts would be helpful. For application purposes, you should be taking and getting goods grades in rigorous, black letter law doctrinal courses that are graded on a curve.

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:23 pm
You technically don't have to take anything, but Fed Courts would be helpful. For application purposes, you should be taking and getting goods grades in rigorous, black letter law doctrinal courses that are graded on a curve.
Does it matter what they are? Would, say, trademark be fine?

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by jotarokujo » Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:15 pm
In no particular order and some of course more important than others. Admin, Fed Courts, Criminal Procedure, Evidence, Legislation and Regulation, Advanced/Complex Litigation, Con Law or Advanced Con Law if that is offered.

Must have would be Admin and Fed Courts for Circuit and Evidence for district. Just make sure you're taking real classes.
i'd say fed courts is on par with evidence for district. admin no but definitely fed courts. some kind of statutory interpretation is also good for both district and appellate

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Oct 28, 2022 4:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:35 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:23 pm
You technically don't have to take anything, but Fed Courts would be helpful. For application purposes, you should be taking and getting goods grades in rigorous, black letter law doctrinal courses that are graded on a curve.
Does it matter what they are? Would, say, trademark be fine?
Oh yeah Trademark is totally fine. Fed Courts is probably the course judges most commonly look for, but overall, good grades in black letter law courses just make you look like a serious law student, even if they're not subjects that will come up in clerking often. Trademark is a 10x better pick than anything ending in "and the law" or a BS seminar.

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Oct 29, 2022 1:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:54 pm
I'm a 2L hoping to apply for clerkships next summer. Are there any classes I should absolutely take before then (vs. telling judges "I'll happily take X if you'd like me to" in an interview)? Planning to take evidence. Not interested in DC Circuit; would like to avoid taking admin if possible. (Not interested in it.) Or does it not matter much as long as I'm taking classes that aren't "Law and X" milquetoast seminars?
I’d say Fed Courts and Admin, plus evidence if you are targeting district courts.

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:01 am

Admin rarely comes up in practice outside of DC but some judges care about it. Fed Courts is actually useful but most students take it 3L. Just make sure you’re not taking cupcake classes. Evidence, crim pro, and legislation/statutory interpretation are pretty essential for litigators, and I’d highly rec taking them even if you weren’t applying, but I don’t know that judges particularly look for them. Working proficiency in con law and statutory interpretation, whether through class or not, is important for interviews.

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:01 am
Admin rarely comes up in practice outside of DC but some judges care about it. Fed Courts is actually useful but most students take it 3L. Just make sure you’re not taking cupcake classes. Evidence, crim pro, and legislation/statutory interpretation are pretty essential for litigators, and I’d highly rec taking them even if you weren’t applying, but I don’t know that judges particularly look for them. Working proficiency in con law and statutory interpretation, whether through class or not, is important for interviews.
Admin comes up in lots of places outside DC. Take for example immigration or environmental stuff in the Ninth Circuit.

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Oct 29, 2022 1:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:12 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:01 am
Admin rarely comes up in practice outside of DC but some judges care about it. Fed Courts is actually useful but most students take it 3L. Just make sure you’re not taking cupcake classes. Evidence, crim pro, and legislation/statutory interpretation are pretty essential for litigators, and I’d highly rec taking them even if you weren’t applying, but I don’t know that judges particularly look for them. Working proficiency in con law and statutory interpretation, whether through class or not, is important for interviews.
Admin comes up in lots of places outside DC. Take for example immigration or environmental stuff in the Ninth Circuit.
Or really environmental stuff anywhere. I found admin really helpful (also just interesting/useful since it's such a big part of the modern state). I also suspect con law is more pertinent for COA interviews than DCt, though that might be just a function of my own experience. I never took Fed Courts (not really on purpose, it just wasn't feasible for various reasons) and I don't think it hurt me in my DCt clerkship, but as I'm probably one of the few federal clerks who didn't take it I think the advice to do so is sound.

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Oct 29, 2022 1:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:12 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:01 am
Admin rarely comes up in practice outside of DC but some judges care about it. Fed Courts is actually useful but most students take it 3L. Just make sure you’re not taking cupcake classes. Evidence, crim pro, and legislation/statutory interpretation are pretty essential for litigators, and I’d highly rec taking them even if you weren’t applying, but I don’t know that judges particularly look for them. Working proficiency in con law and statutory interpretation, whether through class or not, is important for interviews.
Admin comes up in lots of places outside DC. Take for example immigration or environmental stuff in the Ninth Circuit.
Both of those are kind of their own kettles of fish though. Immigration Law would definitely be useful for clerking at any level but few clerks take it.

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 1:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:12 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:01 am
Admin rarely comes up in practice outside of DC but some judges care about it. Fed Courts is actually useful but most students take it 3L. Just make sure you’re not taking cupcake classes. Evidence, crim pro, and legislation/statutory interpretation are pretty essential for litigators, and I’d highly rec taking them even if you weren’t applying, but I don’t know that judges particularly look for them. Working proficiency in con law and statutory interpretation, whether through class or not, is important for interviews.
Admin comes up in lots of places outside DC. Take for example immigration or environmental stuff in the Ninth Circuit.
Both of those are kind of their own kettles of fish though. Immigration Law would definitely be useful for clerking at any level but few clerks take it.
I am clerking on a non-D.C. Circuit and I have already had a couple of admin law cases. Plus, admin. law (at least at my law school) has stuff on exhaustion of remedies, standing, ripeness/mootness that is really helpful. You should definitely take it.

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by TheGreatestGunner » Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:51 pm

Fed Courts.

Outside of that, really a high GPA matters most. Contrary to other posters, you can take cupcake classes-- if that will inflate the GPA. You're going to need that number to hit a certain spot to be competitive in the process.

There are classes that are also helpful-- Immigration Law, Statutory Interpretation, Complex Lit, Admin Law, Remedies, etc. But just getting a really high GPA matters.

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:59 pm

TheGreatestGunner wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:51 pm
Fed Courts.

Outside of that, really a high GPA matters most. Contrary to other posters, you can take cupcake classes-- if that will inflate the GPA. You're going to need that number to hit a certain spot to be competitive in the process.

There are classes that are also helpful-- Immigration Law, Statutory Interpretation, Complex Lit, Admin Law, Remedies, etc. But just getting a really high GPA matters.
Umm I don't think stacking cupcake classes is a good idea. I'm sure there are a lot of judges that would not care, but I know for a fact that a lot of judges instruct clerks to specifically look for and screen for this stuff.

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:26 pm

Not op, but anyone gotten circuit clerkships without taking fed courts?

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:27 pm

Not op, but anyone gotten circuit clerkships without taking admin?

(accidentally submitted asking about fed courts, accidental, mods pls delete/reject that one)

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by lavarman84 » Sat Oct 29, 2022 11:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:12 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:01 am
Admin rarely comes up in practice outside of DC but some judges care about it. Fed Courts is actually useful but most students take it 3L. Just make sure you’re not taking cupcake classes. Evidence, crim pro, and legislation/statutory interpretation are pretty essential for litigators, and I’d highly rec taking them even if you weren’t applying, but I don’t know that judges particularly look for them. Working proficiency in con law and statutory interpretation, whether through class or not, is important for interviews.
Admin comes up in lots of places outside DC. Take for example immigration or environmental stuff in the Ninth Circuit.
Yep. Admin tends to come up in COA clerkships. It's less important for D. Ct. clerkships.

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:55 am

If you want to clerk, you need to have a high GPA. Beyond that, no one cares what classes you took so long as you took at least two doctrinal classes a semester for 2L and 3L and one of those doctrinal classes was fed courts.

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Oct 30, 2022 1:18 am

I double clerked. Neither judge nor their clerks gave a shit about what classes I took. (although I didn’t stack it with bullshit, but I never took admin, statutory interpretation, etc.) They only cared that my GPA was high.

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:53 pm

Did two COA clerkships. Classes I found particularly helpful (but I'm sure had no impact on whether I got the job):

-Civil Rights Litigation
-Legislation
-Freedom of Religion
-Freedom of Speech
-Criminal Procedure

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Nov 02, 2022 12:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Oct 30, 2022 1:18 am
I double clerked. Neither judge nor their clerks gave a shit about what classes I took. (although I didn’t stack it with bullshit, but I never took admin, statutory interpretation, etc.) They only cared that my GPA was high.
This was my experience as well as a COA -> D. Ct. clerk. As for actually landing the clerkship, a 3.9 is always going to beat a 3.7, regardless of which classes the two candidates took (barring EXTREME cases of padding).

As for handling the workload, I do think it's helpful, as many have said, to take fed courts for COA. Maybe a seminar on 1983 suits and qualified immunity. Disagree that Admin is helpful beyond credentialing. Nothing difficult about that subject. Maybe D.C. Cir is different?

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Nov 02, 2022 12:25 pm

Current D. Ct. clerk.

Fed Courts is definitely the most useful. Evidence too. I took a complex lit/class actions seminar that has been nice, just for familiarity with all of the quirks of Rule 23. I avoided Admin Law like the plague, and it hasn't bit me thus far.

Depending on the districts you are targeting, I will throw out patent law as a good one to consider. It would probably be essential in C.D. Cal./E.D. Tex./D. Delaware, but useful in plenty of other districts to have a working familiarity.

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Nov 02, 2022 12:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 02, 2022 12:25 pm
Current D. Ct. clerk.

Fed Courts is definitely the most useful. Evidence too. I took a complex lit/class actions seminar that has been nice, just for familiarity with all of the quirks of Rule 23. I avoided Admin Law like the plague, and it hasn't bit me thus far.

Depending on the districts you are targeting, I will throw out patent law as a good one to consider. It would probably be essential in C.D. Cal./E.D. Tex./D. Delaware, but useful in plenty of other districts to have a working familiarity.
N.D. Cal., W.D. Tex., and D.N.J. are three more where knowledge of patent law will be super helpful (and for some judges, required).

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Nov 02, 2022 12:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:53 pm
Did two COA clerkships. Classes I found particularly helpful (but I'm sure had no impact on whether I got the job):

-Civil Rights Litigation
-Legislation
-Freedom of Religion
-Freedom of Speech
-Criminal Procedure
District Court Clerk: As many noted, Federal Jx; Evidence; First Amendment; Con Crim Pro; Civ Pro II; Remedies; Employment / Employment Discrimination; classes focusing on Section 1983, and a Judicial Externship all helped me avoid doing research from the ground up.

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Re: Must-take classes for clerkships?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:33 pm

As a double clerk (SDNY/CA2) I’m a little baffled by the clerks who seem to regularly use Admin. It’s an important class for YLS students because it’s one of the few classes there that’s graded strictly, so judges look for it, but I haven’t used it beyond basic stuff. Whereas some far more obscure classes like Admiralty have come up repeatedly (though that’s an SDNY-specific thing). Your mileage may vary though as his thread shows.

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