Top Law Schools

Median from CCN with a couple years of V5 NYC white collar work experience.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 08, 2022 2:49 am

Median from CCN with a couple years of V5 NYC white collar work experience.

Yes but it depends what district you are looking at and any connections/calls/recommenders.

If your question is "Do I have any chance whatsoever at any district court regardless of location," I feel brave enough to say "yes." But I don't think that question is susceptible to useful answers.

assuming you have 3 professors willing to call:
i'd give you maybe a 1/3 chance if you apply to 100 less competitive judges, including all the places where you have a connection and judges who only hire people with work experience

Absolutely, if you are willing to apply broadly to judges who require work experience. The number of candidates with work experience is relatively low, and median from CCN plus big firm will get you in the door with most of these judges. I would say your odds are much longer if you want to clerk within an hour or two of NYC but beyond that you're a very competitive candidate.

People overestimate the size of the applicant pools for judges who require experience. They are not looking at several hundred of applicants per open seat the way judges who are open to hiring 2L's are.

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:42 pm

assuming you have 3 professors willing to call:
i'd give you maybe a 1/3 chance if you apply to 100 less competitive judges, including all the places where you have a connection and judges who only hire people with work experience

Is this ironic? I can’t tell.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:52 am

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:42 pm

assuming you have 3 professors willing to call:
i'd give you maybe a 1/3 chance if you apply to 100 less competitive judges, including all the places where you have a connection and judges who only hire people with work experience

Is this ironic? I can’t tell.

I'm not that poster but that sounds like a reasonable estimate

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:42 pm

assuming you have 3 professors willing to call:
i'd give you maybe a 1/3 chance if you apply to 100 less competitive judges, including all the places where you have a connection and judges who only hire people with work experience

If he has three Professors willing to call I'd put his chances at higher than 1/3. 1/3 is applying to 100 less competitive judges without the calls.

Also if OP is Fed Soc I'd put his chances at like 80-90 if NYU/CLS and near 100 if UChicago.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:12 am

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:42 pm

assuming you have 3 professors willing to call:
i'd give you maybe a 1/3 chance if you apply to 100 less competitive judges, including all the places where you have a connection and judges who only hire people with work experience

If he has three Professors willing to call I'd put his chances at higher than 1/3. 1/3 is applying to 100 less competitive judges without the calls.

Also if OP is Fed Soc I'd put his chances at like 80-90 if NYU/CLS and near 100 if UChicago.

sorry, yes i was assuming non fedsoc, was not average between fed soc and non-fed soc. fed soc is of course pretty much 90%+ chance. assuming non-fedsoc, i go with the 1/3 chance maybe not assuming 3 calls, but assuming some combination of extra curriculars such as law review + no calls, some calls + a judicial externship, or law review article. if they literally have no calls and no extra curriculars, i drop the chance to 20-25%

and fair enough to say that chicago is somewhat better odds than that and nyu somewhat worse

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:12 am

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:42 pm

assuming you have 3 professors willing to call:
i'd give you maybe a 1/3 chance if you apply to 100 less competitive judges, including all the places where you have a connection and judges who only hire people with work experience

If he has three Professors willing to call I'd put his chances at higher than 1/3. 1/3 is applying to 100 less competitive judges without the calls.

Also if OP is Fed Soc I'd put his chances at like 80-90 if NYU/CLS and near 100 if UChicago.

sorry, yes i was assuming non fedsoc, was not average between fed soc and non-fed soc. fed soc is of course pretty much 90%+ chance. assuming non-fedsoc, i go with the 1/3 chance maybe not assuming 3 calls, but assuming some combination of extra curriculars such as law review + no calls, some calls + a judicial externship, or law review article. if they literally have no calls and no extra curriculars, i drop the chance to 20-25%

and fair enough to say that chicago is somewhat better odds than that and nyu somewhat worse

OP here—that’s too bad, but confirms my suspicions. Glad to be spared the time/effort of applying if it would be to no avail, though.

Morpheus wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:03 pm

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:12 am

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:42 pm

assuming you have 3 professors willing to call:
i'd give you maybe a 1/3 chance if you apply to 100 less competitive judges, including all the places where you have a connection and judges who only hire people with work experience

If he has three Professors willing to call I'd put his chances at higher than 1/3. 1/3 is applying to 100 less competitive judges without the calls.

Also if OP is Fed Soc I'd put his chances at like 80-90 if NYU/CLS and near 100 if UChicago.

sorry, yes i was assuming non fedsoc, was not average between fed soc and non-fed soc. fed soc is of course pretty much 90%+ chance. assuming non-fedsoc, i go with the 1/3 chance maybe not assuming 3 calls, but assuming some combination of extra curriculars such as law review + no calls, some calls + a judicial externship, or law review article. if they literally have no calls and no extra curriculars, i drop the chance to 20-25%

and fair enough to say that chicago is somewhat better odds than that and nyu somewhat worse

OP here—that’s too bad, but confirms my suspicions. Glad to be spared the time/effort of applying if it would be to no avail, though.

OP, I don't think you should necessarily give up. Your stats are unlikely to pull you out of an application pile, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. For you, it's probably going to be all about fit -- think about what you have that might connect with a judge. Maybe you come from a small town in a not-so-common part of the country, and that will appeal to judges from those areas or who work in those areas. Maybe you have taken a lot of writing classes and can mention that, and some judges will just love that. Maybe you want to practice healthcare law or privacy law or First Amendment law or whatever, and that could be an area another judge feels really strongly about. Or maybe you have some quirky interest in common, like you won a baking contest or something. It's definitely hard to figure out what judge that is (and honestly, you probably won't know and just have to apply) but if you cast a wide net and put yourself in your application, you have a shot.

Morpheus wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:03 pm

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:12 am

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:42 pm

assuming you have 3 professors willing to call:
i'd give you maybe a 1/3 chance if you apply to 100 less competitive judges, including all the places where you have a connection and judges who only hire people with work experience

If he has three Professors willing to call I'd put his chances at higher than 1/3. 1/3 is applying to 100 less competitive judges without the calls.

Also if OP is Fed Soc I'd put his chances at like 80-90 if NYU/CLS and near 100 if UChicago.

sorry, yes i was assuming non fedsoc, was not average between fed soc and non-fed soc. fed soc is of course pretty much 90%+ chance. assuming non-fedsoc, i go with the 1/3 chance maybe not assuming 3 calls, but assuming some combination of extra curriculars such as law review + no calls, some calls + a judicial externship, or law review article. if they literally have no calls and no extra curriculars, i drop the chance to 20-25%

and fair enough to say that chicago is somewhat better odds than that and nyu somewhat worse

OP here—that’s too bad, but confirms my suspicions. Glad to be spared the time/effort of applying if it would be to no avail, though.

concur with the other poster, even if it's not guarantee to succeed, sending 100 apps is actually very little effort! i think it's really easy to overestimate how much effort it is to apply, but really it's just a matter of going on OSCAR and mass sending. applying to 100 judges isn't much more work than applying to 1 because you use the same writing sample and materials for pretty much everyone. I think if you don't even apply you may regret not doing so. at least in my experience, i always regret not trying even if there wasn't a likelihood of success