Struck out on plan - what now? Forum

[Anonymous User]

So completely struck out on plan, didn't even get a single interview. Decided to take some time away from this whole thing to mentally regroup cuz I was pretty fucked up over it.

Career services has been largely unhelpful in diagnosing what went wrong with my app and I don't really think I am going to get much closure on it.

I accepted an offer to go to a V5 firm in NYC but I still want to clerk, what are my next steps? What are my more long term options?

Can provide details on my profile and my interests in terms of applications if that would be helpful!

[Wild Card]

the majority of judges want work experience, and for good reason

it sounds as if you have none

so get some, and you should be much more competitive two to five years from now

[Anonymous User]

So completely struck out on plan, didn't even get a single interview. Decided to take some time away from this whole thing to mentally regroup cuz I was pretty fucked up over it.

Career services has been largely unhelpful in diagnosing what went wrong with my app and I don't really think I am going to get much closure on it.

I accepted an offer to go to a V5 firm in NYC but I still want to clerk, what are my next steps? What are my more long term options?

Can provide details on my profile and my interests in terms of applications if that would be helpful!

I think some more background info would be helpful. School? Grades? Aiming for District or Appellate? Did you apply broadly? Did you have decent recommenders?

I’d say many, probably most at this point, district court judges want work experience. My impression is that the preference for work experience is not as high at the COA level, but still typically viewed favorably.

Assuming decent grades, you will probably be in great shape for district court clerkships after a couple years at a V5.

[Anonymous User]

So completely struck out on plan, didn't even get a single interview. Decided to take some time away from this whole thing to mentally regroup cuz I was pretty fucked up over it.

Career services has been largely unhelpful in diagnosing what went wrong with my app and I don't really think I am going to get much closure on it.

I accepted an offer to go to a V5 firm in NYC but I still want to clerk, what are my next steps? What are my more long term options?

Can provide details on my profile and my interests in terms of applications if that would be helpful!

I think some more background info would be helpful. School? Grades? Aiming for District or Appellate? Did you apply broadly? Did you have decent recommenders?

I’d say many, probably most at this point, district court judges want work experience. My impression is that the preference for work experience is not as high at the COA level, but still typically viewed favorably.

Assuming decent grades, you will probably be in great shape for district court clerkships after a couple years at a V5.

Top ~15% at HYS with a significant number of black letters, not on LR but masthead roles on 2 of the larger secondary journals. LOR were fine but not the notorious feeder profs and had one prof calling. Also inescapably liberal pre-law work history. Applied broadly COA, more targeted in districts (mostly in major markets) for around 95 apps.

Came into it aiming for COA but that feels a bit more remote at this point.

Plans for this year is being more intentional in building better relationships with professors and trying to push myself over the threshold to graduate magna. Not sure if I should be ripping more apps or waiting until a few years into practice

[Anonymous User]

So completely struck out on plan, didn't even get a single interview. Decided to take some time away from this whole thing to mentally regroup cuz I was pretty fucked up over it.

Career services has been largely unhelpful in diagnosing what went wrong with my app and I don't really think I am going to get much closure on it.

I accepted an offer to go to a V5 firm in NYC but I still want to clerk, what are my next steps? What are my more long term options?

Can provide details on my profile and my interests in terms of applications if that would be helpful!

I think some more background info would be helpful. School? Grades? Aiming for District or Appellate? Did you apply broadly? Did you have decent recommenders?

I’d say many, probably most at this point, district court judges want work experience. My impression is that the preference for work experience is not as high at the COA level, but still typically viewed favorably.

Assuming decent grades, you will probably be in great shape for district court clerkships after a couple years at a V5.

Top ~15% at HYS with a significant number of black letters, not on LR but masthead roles on 2 of the larger secondary journals. LOR were fine but not the notorious feeder profs and had one prof calling. Also inescapably liberal pre-law work history. Applied broadly COA, more targeted in districts (mostly in major markets) for around 95 apps.

Came into it aiming for COA but that feels a bit more remote at this point.

Plans for this year is being more intentional in building better relationships with professors and trying to push myself over the threshold to graduate magna. Not sure if I should be ripping more apps or waiting until a few years into practice

Just apply again including COA. Calling it at this point is way too early. You're probably not getting any feeders or semi-feeders but I'm sure you knew that; getting a circuit and selective-non-SDNY district is not only reasonable but if you just keep applying I'd put the chances of that happening above 50%.

[Anonymous User]

So completely struck out on plan, didn't even get a single interview. Decided to take some time away from this whole thing to mentally regroup cuz I was pretty fucked up over it.

Career services has been largely unhelpful in diagnosing what went wrong with my app and I don't really think I am going to get much closure on it.

I accepted an offer to go to a V5 firm in NYC but I still want to clerk, what are my next steps? What are my more long term options?

Can provide details on my profile and my interests in terms of applications if that would be helpful!

I think some more background info would be helpful. School? Grades? Aiming for District or Appellate? Did you apply broadly? Did you have decent recommenders?

I’d say many, probably most at this point, district court judges want work experience. My impression is that the preference for work experience is not as high at the COA level, but still typically viewed favorably.

Assuming decent grades, you will probably be in great shape for district court clerkships after a couple years at a V5.

Top ~15% at HYS with a significant number of black letters, not on LR but masthead roles on 2 of the larger secondary journals. LOR were fine but not the notorious feeder profs and had one prof calling. Also inescapably liberal pre-law work history. Applied broadly COA, more targeted in districts (mostly in major markets) for around 95 apps.

Came into it aiming for COA but that feels a bit more remote at this point.

Plans for this year is being more intentional in building better relationships with professors and trying to push myself over the threshold to graduate magna. Not sure if I should be ripping more apps or waiting until a few years into practice

Just apply again including COA. Calling it at this point is way too early. You're probably not getting any feeders or semi-feeders but I'm sure you knew that; getting a circuit and selective-non-SDNY district is not only reasonable but if you just keep applying I'd put the chances of that happening above 50%.

Do you mean do on plan applications again or just continue to send out apps as OSCAR openings trickle in?

Definitely got humbled a bit by the first run through the process - thought I would have a shot at semi-feeders but that is not the play I guess!

On that note - I kinda want to redo my LOR's. Is it worth holding off on apps for the time being while I try to build up connections with other professors

[ukjobsonwetton]

have you tried other cities less competitive than NYC?

[Anonymous User]

So completely struck out on plan, didn't even get a single interview. Decided to take some time away from this whole thing to mentally regroup cuz I was pretty fucked up over it.

Career services has been largely unhelpful in diagnosing what went wrong with my app and I don't really think I am going to get much closure on it.

I accepted an offer to go to a V5 firm in NYC but I still want to clerk, what are my next steps? What are my more long term options?

Can provide details on my profile and my interests in terms of applications if that would be helpful!

I think some more background info would be helpful. School? Grades? Aiming for District or Appellate? Did you apply broadly? Did you have decent recommenders?

I’d say many, probably most at this point, district court judges want work experience. My impression is that the preference for work experience is not as high at the COA level, but still typically viewed favorably.

Assuming decent grades, you will probably be in great shape for district court clerkships after a couple years at a V5.

Top ~15% at HYS with a significant number of black letters, not on LR but masthead roles on 2 of the larger secondary journals. LOR were fine but not the notorious feeder profs and had one prof calling. Also inescapably liberal pre-law work history. Applied broadly COA, more targeted in districts (mostly in major markets) for around 95 apps.

Came into it aiming for COA but that feels a bit more remote at this point.

Plans for this year is being more intentional in building better relationships with professors and trying to push myself over the threshold to graduate magna. Not sure if I should be ripping more apps or waiting until a few years into practice

Just apply again including COA. Calling it at this point is way too early. You're probably not getting any feeders or semi-feeders but I'm sure you knew that; getting a circuit and selective-non-SDNY district is not only reasonable but if you just keep applying I'd put the chances of that happening above 50%.

Do you mean do on plan applications again or just continue to send out apps as OSCAR openings trickle in?

Definitely got humbled a bit by the first run through the process - thought I would have a shot at semi-feeders but that is not the play I guess!

On that note - I kinda want to redo my LOR's. Is it worth holding off on apps for the time being while I try to build up connections with other professors

Both—definitely keep sending in applications as OSCAR openings trickle in. It is worth redoing LORs if you think you can make them stronger but make sure they're ready to send right after Fall grades come in though because that is a big rush.Do not and I mean do not view this similarly as 2L and plan to send the bulk of your applications in June. You now have two advantages that you did not have last time that make you a stronger applicant. 1) you'll have assumed work experience and 2) you don't have to apply with 400 other people

[Anonymous User]

So completely struck out on plan, didn't even get a single interview. Decided to take some time away from this whole thing to mentally regroup cuz I was pretty fucked up over it.

Career services has been largely unhelpful in diagnosing what went wrong with my app and I don't really think I am going to get much closure on it.

I accepted an offer to go to a V5 firm in NYC but I still want to clerk, what are my next steps? What are my more long term options?

Can provide details on my profile and my interests in terms of applications if that would be helpful!

I think some more background info would be helpful. School? Grades? Aiming for District or Appellate? Did you apply broadly? Did you have decent recommenders?

I’d say many, probably most at this point, district court judges want work experience. My impression is that the preference for work experience is not as high at the COA level, but still typically viewed favorably.

Assuming decent grades, you will probably be in great shape for district court clerkships after a couple years at a V5.

Top ~15% at HYS with a significant number of black letters, not on LR but masthead roles on 2 of the larger secondary journals. LOR were fine but not the notorious feeder profs and had one prof calling. Also inescapably liberal pre-law work history. Applied broadly COA, more targeted in districts (mostly in major markets) for around 95 apps.

Came into it aiming for COA but that feels a bit more remote at this point.

Plans for this year is being more intentional in building better relationships with professors and trying to push myself over the threshold to graduate magna. Not sure if I should be ripping more apps or waiting until a few years into practice

Just apply again including COA. Calling it at this point is way too early. You're probably not getting any feeders or semi-feeders but I'm sure you knew that; getting a circuit and selective-non-SDNY district is not only reasonable but if you just keep applying I'd put the chances of that happening above 50%.

Do you mean do on plan applications again or just continue to send out apps as OSCAR openings trickle in?

Definitely got humbled a bit by the first run through the process - thought I would have a shot at semi-feeders but that is not the play I guess!

On that note - I kinda want to redo my LOR's. Is it worth holding off on apps for the time being while I try to build up connections with other professors

Both—definitely keep sending in applications as OSCAR openings trickle in. It is worth redoing LORs if you think you can make them stronger but make sure they're ready to send right after Fall grades come in though because that is a big rush.Do not and I mean do not view this similarly as 2L and plan to send the bulk of your applications in June. You now have two advantages that you did not have last time that make you a stronger applicant. 1) you'll have assumed work experience and 2) you don't have to apply with 400 other people

I think I can mess with the recs a bit - one of them was from a prof who is not a common recommender (focused more on corp side stuff). Have a few profs in mind that I am taking classes with rn who would be better recs. Good flag that there is a rush at Fall grades, didn't know that was a thing.

Is there enough benefit stemming from assumed work experience that I should be heavy focusing on 2025/26 clerkships. Also does it really matter what firm I am at in terms of the value of the WE?

[Anonymous User]

have you tried other cities less competitive than NYC?

Yeah! My initial apps were broad at COA level and then targeted to NDIL, DC, all CA, all NY, all VA, D. Mass. and some TX.

[Anonymous User]

have you tried other cities less competitive than NYC?

Yeah! My initial apps were broad at COA level and then targeted to NDIL, DC, all CA, all NY, all VA, D. Mass. and some TX.

These are all still very competitive districts. In my opinion, the biggest thing you can do now is to get a professor on board and calling for you. Clerkship hiring is very connection based, and your grades are good enough to get an interview if someone flags your app, but not so good that it would get pulled without anyone flagging it. And, as others have said, work experience will make you more appealing to district court judges.

[Anonymous User]

have you tried other cities less competitive than NYC?

Yeah! My initial apps were broad at COA level and then targeted to NDIL, DC, all CA, all NY, all VA, D. Mass. and some TX.

These are all still very competitive districts. In my opinion, the biggest thing you can do now is to get a professor on board and calling for you. Clerkship hiring is very connection based, and your grades are good enough to get an interview if someone flags your app, but not so good that it would get pulled without anyone flagging it. And, as others have said, work experience will make you more appealing to district court judges.

Agree with this, but also like OP if you cannot get a Professor on board to call for you it is definitely possible to get a clerkship in these districts with your grades without a call. You really just got to keep applying. Also my school (NYU) has this chart thing where it shows when people interview and October is a big jump for some reason so worth sending out apps now.

[Anonymous User]

have you tried other cities less competitive than NYC?

Yeah! My initial apps were broad at COA level and then targeted to NDIL, DC, all CA, all NY, all VA, D. Mass. and some TX.

These are all still very competitive districts. In my opinion, the biggest thing you can do now is to get a professor on board and calling for you. Clerkship hiring is very connection based, and your grades are good enough to get an interview if someone flags your app, but not so good that it would get pulled without anyone flagging it. And, as others have said, work experience will make you more appealing to district court judges.

Yeah they definitely are. I think I had overstated my competitiveness when I went into the process (thanks CSO) and didn't apply to other districts. That said, I am not super ecstatic about the adea of heading to a flyover for the sake of just clerking somewhere. I don't know if the career benefit is significant enough to outweigh the opportunity costs.

I had a prof calling for me but they were not one of the power recommenders at my school. Should I really been pushing hard to get a rec/call from a more connected prof or are there alts (not in of the big profs classes this semester)

[Anonymous User]

have you tried other cities less competitive than NYC?

Yeah! My initial apps were broad at COA level and then targeted to NDIL, DC, all CA, all NY, all VA, D. Mass. and some TX.

These are all still very competitive districts. In my opinion, the biggest thing you can do now is to get a professor on board and calling for you. Clerkship hiring is very connection based, and your grades are good enough to get an interview if someone flags your app, but not so good that it would get pulled without anyone flagging it. And, as others have said, work experience will make you more appealing to district court judges.

Yeah they definitely are. I think I had overstated my competitiveness when I went into the process (thanks CSO) and didn't apply to other districts. That said, I am not super ecstatic about the adea of heading to a flyover for the sake of just clerking somewhere. I don't know if the career benefit is significant enough to outweigh the opportunity costs.

I had a prof calling for me but they were not one of the power recommenders at my school. Should I really been pushing hard to get a rec/call from a more connected prof or are there alts (not in of the big profs classes this semester)

Power recommenders are obviously good, but I think you should talk to professors you're considering asking to call and seeing which judges they know. Those judges are the ones that calls will have the most impact with if you don't have a Brand Name professor calling for you.

[Anonymous User]

have you tried other cities less competitive than NYC?

Yeah! My initial apps were broad at COA level and then targeted to NDIL, DC, all CA, all NY, all VA, D. Mass. and some TX.

These are all still very competitive districts. In my opinion, the biggest thing you can do now is to get a professor on board and calling for you. Clerkship hiring is very connection based, and your grades are good enough to get an interview if someone flags your app, but not so good that it would get pulled without anyone flagging it. And, as others have said, work experience will make you more appealing to district court judges.

Yeah they definitely are. I think I had overstated my competitiveness when I went into the process (thanks CSO) and didn't apply to other districts. That said, I am not super ecstatic about the adea of heading to a flyover for the sake of just clerking somewhere. I don't know if the career benefit is significant enough to outweigh the opportunity costs.

I had a prof calling for me but they were not one of the power recommenders at my school. Should I really been pushing hard to get a rec/call from a more connected prof or are there alts (not in of the big profs classes this semester)

Power recommenders are obviously good, but I think you should talk to professors you're considering asking to call and seeing which judges they know. Those judges are the ones that calls will have the most impact with if you don't have a Brand Name professor calling for you.

That's a good point! I'll be more intentional with that going forward. Kinda tricky cuz I feel like the classes I am in right now skew a touch corporate but ill do my best

[Anonymous User]

I am not super ecstatic about the adea of heading to a flyover for the sake of just clerking somewhere. I don't know if the career benefit is significant enough to outweigh the opportunity costs.

The career benefit is significant if you want to litigate, including at the V5, regardless of where the district court clerkship is. You could leave out small towns and the flyover districts (EDKY, MDPA for example) and only target somewhat large cities, e.g. portland, atlanta, nashville and still greatly expand how many district courts you're applying to. top 15% at my YS did this pretty typically

[Anonymous User]

I am not super ecstatic about the adea of heading to a flyover for the sake of just clerking somewhere. I don't know if the career benefit is significant enough to outweigh the opportunity costs.

The career benefit is significant if you want to litigate, including at the V5, regardless of where the district court clerkship is. You could leave out small towns and the flyover districts (EDKY, MDPA for example) and only target somewhat large cities, e.g. portland, atlanta, nashville and still greatly expand how many district courts you're applying to. top 15% at my YS did this pretty typically

Very much appreciate the advice, will broaden out. This sounds dumb but really overestimated the currency of my app. Thought that my grades made me a realistic applicant to competitive districts

[Anonymous User]

I am not super ecstatic about the adea of heading to a flyover for the sake of just clerking somewhere. I don't know if the career benefit is significant enough to outweigh the opportunity costs.

The career benefit is significant if you want to litigate, including at the V5, regardless of where the district court clerkship is. You could leave out small towns and the flyover districts (EDKY, MDPA for example) and only target somewhat large cities, e.g. portland, atlanta, nashville and still greatly expand how many district courts you're applying to. top 15% at my YS did this pretty typically

Very much appreciate the advice, will broaden out. This sounds dumb but really overestimated the currency of my app. Thought that my grades made me a realistic applicant to competitive districts

These threads always go down these rabbit holes and then the person leaves thinking they are bad applicants. You are competitive for competitive districts. Many people magna at T6 strike out during the plan—that is the nature of the game. Just keep applying.

[Anonymous User]

I am not super ecstatic about the adea of heading to a flyover for the sake of just clerking somewhere. I don't know if the career benefit is significant enough to outweigh the opportunity costs.

The career benefit is significant if you want to litigate, including at the V5, regardless of where the district court clerkship is. You could leave out small towns and the flyover districts (EDKY, MDPA for example) and only target somewhat large cities, e.g. portland, atlanta, nashville and still greatly expand how many district courts you're applying to. top 15% at my YS did this pretty typically

Very much appreciate the advice, will broaden out. This sounds dumb but really overestimated the currency of my app. Thought that my grades made me a realistic applicant to competitive districts

guy who gave "expand" advice, yeah you definitely are competitive for even the most competitive district courts. it's just not guaranteed and the career benefit is basically the same at the most competitive districts and second tier cities. the only question is how much are willing to not live in DC or new york. it seems like you are willing to based on you broadly applying to CoA, therefore I would also broadly apply to district courts (because the career boost for CoA is also not that much more than a district court)

[Anonymous User]

I am not super ecstatic about the adea of heading to a flyover for the sake of just clerking somewhere. I don't know if the career benefit is significant enough to outweigh the opportunity costs.

The career benefit is significant if you want to litigate, including at the V5, regardless of where the district court clerkship is. You could leave out small towns and the flyover districts (EDKY, MDPA for example) and only target somewhat large cities, e.g. portland, atlanta, nashville and still greatly expand how many district courts you're applying to. top 15% at my YS did this pretty typically

Very much appreciate the advice, will broaden out. This sounds dumb but really overestimated the currency of my app. Thought that my grades made me a realistic applicant to competitive districts

Nah, you are a great candidate. It’s just still kind of a lottery even for great candidates.

[Anonymous User]

I am not super ecstatic about the adea of heading to a flyover for the sake of just clerking somewhere. I don't know if the career benefit is significant enough to outweigh the opportunity costs.

The career benefit is significant if you want to litigate, including at the V5, regardless of where the district court clerkship is. You could leave out small towns and the flyover districts (EDKY, MDPA for example) and only target somewhat large cities, e.g. portland, atlanta, nashville and still greatly expand how many district courts you're applying to. top 15% at my YS did this pretty typically

Very much appreciate the advice, will broaden out. This sounds dumb but really overestimated the currency of my app. Thought that my grades made me a realistic applicant to competitive districts

These threads always go down these rabbit holes and then the person leaves thinking they are bad applicants. You are competitive for competitive districts. Many people magna at T6 strike out during the plan—that is the nature of the game. Just keep applying.

This times 10! You are definitely a strong candidate and are hirable for COA and competitive districts (especially with work experience for the latter, but even straight through for COA).

I noticed your "unescapably liberal" pre-law school work history. If that's the case, do not waste applications on most Trump-appointed COA judges unless you get a green light from somewhere (e.g., you find that they've hired a past clerk with a similarly liberal resume). Although not all Trump COA judges hire FedSoc candidates exclusively, when people say a conservative judge "hires liberals" this most often means they hire people with politically neutral resumes who happen to be liberal. I suspect that you may have better luck with Bush appointees because the process was less partisan then, but even so, conservative-minded judges may hesitate to interview someone with an aggressively liberal resume even if they don't generally prefer to hire conservatives.

On the other hand...focus even harder on Biden appointees, and continue to apply to them as more are freshly confirmed. Biden's judges come from more liberal backgrounds, on the whole, than Obama's or Clinton's did, and your unescapably liberal resume may be more appealing to some of them than a neutral resume would be.

[Anonymous User]

I am not super ecstatic about the adea of heading to a flyover for the sake of just clerking somewhere. I don't know if the career benefit is significant enough to outweigh the opportunity costs.

The career benefit is significant if you want to litigate, including at the V5, regardless of where the district court clerkship is. You could leave out small towns and the flyover districts (EDKY, MDPA for example) and only target somewhat large cities, e.g. portland, atlanta, nashville and still greatly expand how many district courts you're applying to. top 15% at my YS did this pretty typically

Very much appreciate the advice, will broaden out. This sounds dumb but really overestimated the currency of my app. Thought that my grades made me a realistic applicant to competitive districts

These threads always go down these rabbit holes and then the person leaves thinking they are bad applicants. You are competitive for competitive districts. Many people magna at T6 strike out during the plan—that is the nature of the game. Just keep applying.

This times 10! You are definitely a strong candidate and are hirable for COA and competitive districts (especially with work experience for the latter, but even straight through for COA).

I noticed your "unescapably liberal" pre-law school work history. If that's the case, do not waste applications on most Trump-appointed COA judges unless you get a green light from somewhere (e.g., you find that they've hired a past clerk with a similarly liberal resume). Although not all Trump COA judges hire FedSoc candidates exclusively, when people say a conservative judge "hires liberals" this most often means they hire people with politically neutral resumes who happen to be liberal. I suspect that you may have better luck with Bush appointees because the process was less partisan then, but even so, conservative-minded judges may hesitate to interview someone with an aggressively liberal resume even if they don't generally prefer to hire conservatives.

On the other hand...focus even harder on Biden appointees, and continue to apply to them as more are freshly confirmed. Biden's judges come from more liberal backgrounds, on the whole, than Obama's or Clinton's did, and your unescapably liberal resume may be more appealing to some of them than a neutral resume would be.

Hey thanks! That was really nice to hear - honestly was questioning my app before posting! It felt a little more than coincidence that I didnt get a single interview invite (not just no offers) and I thought I must have shorted something somehow. I really did not appreciate how competitive things were at the COA/Competitive District level and it seems like I might just not have the distinguishing characteristics (elite LOR, LR, fedsoc/protected class/veteran status) needed to make it a little bit more reliable.

As per liberal, I don't know if it matters for targeting but its not like I was working for AOC or the Warren on the hill. Did regulatory work for a few center left political campaigns that received national attention, which might be enough to mark me as such.