Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice? Forum
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Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
I came out of 1L in roughly the top 5% + LR at HYSC. I’m not affiliated with FedSoc or ACS (I don’t really feel like either is an ideological home for me) and am planning to send the bulk of my clerkship apps in on the plan next June, but I am also interested in applying early to a few off-plan judges for 2025-26 — conservative is fine so long as they hire non-conservative clerks.
Our clerkship office is fairly unhelpful this early in the process so I’m trying to gather intel on which judges (I’m geographically flexible) I should be targeting pre-plan with my credentials. Any advice would be appreciated!
Our clerkship office is fairly unhelpful this early in the process so I’m trying to gather intel on which judges (I’m geographically flexible) I should be targeting pre-plan with my credentials. Any advice would be appreciated!
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Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
You're not really gonna get anywhere at this stage without some sort of connection. Most of these connections are fed soc, but it is possible that it could be through a Professor. My advice is honestly to wait until June and just apply on plan, but if you really, really want to approach your Professors for LORs and then ask if they have any judges they would recommend you apply to. The "ask," of course, is two-tiered. You are trying to discern good matches, but a hope from the ask is going to be that the Professor offers to connect you with the judge.
Again, though, in your situation I would really just try to focus on grades and worry about this later and apply on plan. If you want to do pre-plan, you should be involved in Fed Soc and since you're not pre-plan is probably not going to be in the cards for you
Again, though, in your situation I would really just try to focus on grades and worry about this later and apply on plan. If you want to do pre-plan, you should be involved in Fed Soc and since you're not pre-plan is probably not going to be in the cards for you
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Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
You're at Chicago, there's no reason to apply on plan if you're willing to clerk for a right-of-center judge. FedSoc isn't the only game in town. You should talk to your professors and then apply to every conservative feeder/semi-feeder known to hire moderates/liberals. If you get one and keep your grades up, you have an outside shot at SCOTUS.
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Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
This is good advice.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:10 pm[A]pproach your Professors for LORs and then ask if they have any judges they would recommend you apply to. The "ask," of course, is two-tiered. You are trying to discern good matches, but a hope from the ask is going to be that the Professor offers to connect you with the judge.
This is not good advice. After 1L, I secured a clerkship with a conservative semi-feeder who hires liberals. I didn't have FedSoc, I didn't benefit from a professor connection, and I didn't go to HYSC. I just mailed an application.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:10 pmYou're not really gonna get anywhere at this stage without some sort of connection.... My advice is honestly to wait until June and just apply on plan....
Again, though, in your situation I would really just try to focus on grades and worry about this later and apply on plan. If you want to do pre-plan, you should be involved in Fed Soc and since you're not pre-plan is probably not going to be in the cards for you
OP, get talking to potential recommenders immediately and get applications in the mail as soon as you possibly can. Be selective—you're in a great position, especially if you keep building relationships with the right professors at your school. But get cracking, because a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Those relationships can still pay off down the road, of course, and being on top of things right now may improve the odds by signalling to those professors that you're serious.
You can find info on feeders/semi-feeders elsewhere on this forum. Mail applications to all of them you'd be willing to work for. In the course of asking advice from potential recommenders, their connections may come up, but that's gravy. Capitalize on being in pole position right now, rather than hoping to be picked out of the pile in June.
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Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
This advice is so bad that it could not have been given by someone actually competent to give advice on the clerkship market. Plenty of judges hire students without Fed Soc or connections off-plan.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:10 pmYou're not really gonna get anywhere at this stage without some sort of connection. Most of these connections are fed soc, but it is possible that it could be through a Professor. My advice is honestly to wait until June and just apply on plan, but if you really, really want to approach your Professors for LORs and then ask if they have any judges they would recommend you apply to. The "ask," of course, is two-tiered. You are trying to discern good matches, but a hope from the ask is going to be that the Professor offers to connect you with the judge.
Again, though, in your situation I would really just try to focus on grades and worry about this later and apply on plan. If you want to do pre-plan, you should be involved in Fed Soc and since you're not pre-plan is probably not going to be in the cards for you
I’m not sure what you’re asking specifically OP. Line up rec letters and apply to judges, and do it quickly. You’ll get some bites. More likely for 2025-26 or 2026-27 than for 2024-25 though.
Here’s a quick list of judges I would consider. Most to all of these hire off-plan, aren’t nutty, are reasonably selective, and hire liberals.
2: Park, and if they take apps off-plan (idk), Bianco, Livingston, and Sullivan.
3: Bibas, Hardiman, Phipps. I’m not sure if Matey hires liberals but if he does he’s maybe worth a shot.
4: Richardson. I have heard that clerking for Wilkinson is no longer a good experience and would avoid on that ground, but otherwise would list him.
5: Willett.
6: Kethledge, Larsen, Murphy, Sutton, Thapar.
7: Kirsch.
8: Stras.
9: Bennett, Bumatay, Bress, Collins, Ikuta, Lee. I’m not positive that the first three hire liberals though.
10: Tymkovich, and Eid if she takes apps off-plan.
11: Newsom, Grant. I don’t know enough about Brasher, Carnes, Lagoa, or Luck to recommend or not.
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Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
Lagoa falls somewhere around Samuel Alito on the ideological spectrum. Assuming OP doesn't consider himself or herself to be a conservative, I'd avoid.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:47 pm11: Newsom, Grant. I don’t know enough about Brasher, Carnes, Lagoa, or Luck to recommend or not.
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Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
Agree with all the names on the list. Some friendly additions in bold.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:47 pmThis advice is so bad that it could not have been given by someone actually competent to give advice on the clerkship market. Plenty of judges hire students without Fed Soc or connections off-plan.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:10 pmYou're not really gonna get anywhere at this stage without some sort of connection. Most of these connections are fed soc, but it is possible that it could be through a Professor. My advice is honestly to wait until June and just apply on plan, but if you really, really want to approach your Professors for LORs and then ask if they have any judges they would recommend you apply to. The "ask," of course, is two-tiered. You are trying to discern good matches, but a hope from the ask is going to be that the Professor offers to connect you with the judge.
Again, though, in your situation I would really just try to focus on grades and worry about this later and apply on plan. If you want to do pre-plan, you should be involved in Fed Soc and since you're not pre-plan is probably not going to be in the cards for you
I’m not sure what you’re asking specifically OP. Line up rec letters and apply to judges, and do it quickly. You’ll get some bites. More likely for 2025-26 or 2026-27 than for 2024-25 though.
Here’s a quick list of judges I would consider. Most to all of these hire off-plan, aren’t nutty, are reasonably selective, and hire liberals.
2: Park, and if they take apps off-plan (idk), Bianco, Livingston, and Sullivan.
3: Bibas, Hardiman, Phipps. I’m not sure if Matey hires liberals but if he does he’s maybe worth a shot.
4: Richardson. I have heard that clerking for Wilkinson is no longer a good experience and would avoid on that ground, but otherwise would list him.
5: Willett.
6: Kethledge, Larsen, Murphy, Sutton, Thapar.
7: Sykes, Kirsch
8: Stras.
9: Bybee, Bennett, Bumatay, Bress, Collins, Ikuta, Lee. I’m not positive that the first three hire liberals though.
10: Tymkovich, and Eid if she takes apps off-plan.
11: Newsom, Grant. I don’t know enough about Brasher, Carnes, Lagoa, or Luck to recommend or not.
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Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
OP here — these replies are incredibly helpful, especially the recommended list of judges. I really appreciate the time you took to put that together. I have recommenders lined up and am preparing apps to go out by the end of the month hopefully.
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Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
I am the poster who wrote this. I know when I'm wrong and I'll withdraw—appears I have gotten bad information.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:10 pmYou're not really gonna get anywhere at this stage without some sort of connection. Most of these connections are fed soc, but it is possible that it could be through a Professor. My advice is honestly to wait until June and just apply on plan, but if you really, really want to approach your Professors for LORs and then ask if they have any judges they would recommend you apply to. The "ask," of course, is two-tiered. You are trying to discern good matches, but a hope from the ask is going to be that the Professor offers to connect you with the judge.
Again, though, in your situation I would really just try to focus on grades and worry about this later and apply on plan. If you want to do pre-plan, you should be involved in Fed Soc and since you're not pre-plan is probably not going to be in the cards for you
I do stand by my quasi-fake ask which judges I should apply to thing with the hopes that a Professor offers to connect you with someone as that worked for me and my friends.
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Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
my comments in italics, also agree generally with listAnonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:23 amAgree with all the names on the list. Some friendly additions in bold.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:23 amThis advice is so bad that it could not have been given by someone actually competent to give advice on the clerkship market. Plenty of judges hire students without Fed Soc or connections off-plan.
I’m not sure what you’re asking specifically OP. Line up rec letters and apply to judges, and do it quickly. You’ll get some bites. More likely for 2025-26 or 2026-27 than for 2024-25 though.
Here’s a quick list of judges I would consider. Most to all of these hire off-plan, aren’t nutty, are reasonably selective, and hire liberals.
2: Park, and if they take apps off-plan (idk), Bianco, Livingston, and Sullivan. Livingston was on plan as of 2-3 years ago at least. Park saved a spot or two for the plan in prior years, and is pretty 'best athlete' in hiring.
3: Bibas, Hardiman, Phipps. I’m not sure if Matey hires liberals but if he does he’s maybe worth a shot. Matey has hired liberals (and is a great guy by all accounts)-- would help with him in particular to have a professor call. Bibas seems pretty non-ideological in hiring.
4: Richardson. I have heard that clerking for Wilkinson is no longer a good experience and would avoid on that ground, but otherwise would list him.
5: Willett.
6: Kethledge, Larsen, Murphy, Sutton, Thapar.
7: Sykes, Kirsch
8: Stras.
9: Bybee, Bennett, Bumatay, Bress, Collins, Ikuta, Lee. I’m not positive that the first three hire liberals though. This is second-hand but pretty sure Bumatay hires liberals.
10: Tymkovich, and Eid if she takes apps off-plan.
11: Newsom, Grant. I don’t know enough about Brasher, Carnes, Lagoa, or Luck to recommend or not.
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Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
Judge Bybee is a great judge to work for, but he follows the plan.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:40 pmmy comments in italics, also agree generally with listAnonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:23 amAgree with all the names on the list. Some friendly additions in bold.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:23 amThis advice is so bad that it could not have been given by someone actually competent to give advice on the clerkship market. Plenty of judges hire students without Fed Soc or connections off-plan.
I’m not sure what you’re asking specifically OP. Line up rec letters and apply to judges, and do it quickly. You’ll get some bites. More likely for 2025-26 or 2026-27 than for 2024-25 though.
Here’s a quick list of judges I would consider. Most to all of these hire off-plan, aren’t nutty, are reasonably selective, and hire liberals.
2: Park, and if they take apps off-plan (idk), Bianco, Livingston, and Sullivan. Livingston was on plan as of 2-3 years ago at least. Park saved a spot or two for the plan in prior years, and is pretty 'best athlete' in hiring.
3: Bibas, Hardiman, Phipps. I’m not sure if Matey hires liberals but if he does he’s maybe worth a shot. Matey has hired liberals (and is a great guy by all accounts)-- would help with him in particular to have a professor call. Bibas seems pretty non-ideological in hiring.
4: Richardson. I have heard that clerking for Wilkinson is no longer a good experience and would avoid on that ground, but otherwise would list him.
5: Willett.
6: Kethledge, Larsen, Murphy, Sutton, Thapar.
7: Sykes, Kirsch
8: Stras.
9: Bybee, Bennett, Bumatay, Bress, Collins, Ikuta, Lee. I’m not positive that the first three hire liberals though. This is second-hand but pretty sure Bumatay hires liberals.
10: Tymkovich, and Eid if she takes apps off-plan.
11: Newsom, Grant. I don’t know enough about Brasher, Carnes, Lagoa, or Luck to recommend or not.
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Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
Bumatay hires clerks with a provable interest in originalism, which means he generally hires conservatives, but that's a function of what sort of person is most interested in originalism rather than a function of his political preferences. Moderate/progressive originalists with good grades are very much in the mix, and he's hired some before.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:47 pmThis advice is so bad that it could not have been given by someone actually competent to give advice on the clerkship market. Plenty of judges hire students without Fed Soc or connections off-plan.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:10 pmYou're not really gonna get anywhere at this stage without some sort of connection. Most of these connections are fed soc, but it is possible that it could be through a Professor. My advice is honestly to wait until June and just apply on plan, but if you really, really want to approach your Professors for LORs and then ask if they have any judges they would recommend you apply to. The "ask," of course, is two-tiered. You are trying to discern good matches, but a hope from the ask is going to be that the Professor offers to connect you with the judge.
Again, though, in your situation I would really just try to focus on grades and worry about this later and apply on plan. If you want to do pre-plan, you should be involved in Fed Soc and since you're not pre-plan is probably not going to be in the cards for you
I’m not sure what you’re asking specifically OP. Line up rec letters and apply to judges, and do it quickly. You’ll get some bites. More likely for 2025-26 or 2026-27 than for 2024-25 though.
Here’s a quick list of judges I would consider. Most to all of these hire off-plan, aren’t nutty, are reasonably selective, and hire liberals.
2: Park, and if they take apps off-plan (idk), Bianco, Livingston, and Sullivan.
3: Bibas, Hardiman, Phipps. I’m not sure if Matey hires liberals but if he does he’s maybe worth a shot.
4: Richardson. I have heard that clerking for Wilkinson is no longer a good experience and would avoid on that ground, but otherwise would list him.
5: Willett.
6: Kethledge, Larsen, Murphy, Sutton, Thapar.
7: Kirsch.
8: Stras.
9: Bennett, Bumatay, Bress, Collins, Ikuta, Lee. I’m not positive that the first three hire liberals though.
10: Tymkovich, and Eid if she takes apps off-plan.
11: Newsom, Grant. I don’t know enough about Brasher, Carnes, Lagoa, or Luck to recommend or not.
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Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
Can you elaborate on why Wilkinson is no longer a good experience?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:17 amBumatay hires clerks with a provable interest in originalism, which means he generally hires conservatives, but that's a function of what sort of person is most interested in originalism rather than a function of his political preferences. Moderate/progressive originalists with good grades are very much in the mix, and he's hired some before.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:47 pmThis advice is so bad that it could not have been given by someone actually competent to give advice on the clerkship market. Plenty of judges hire students without Fed Soc or connections off-plan.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:10 pmYou're not really gonna get anywhere at this stage without some sort of connection. Most of these connections are fed soc, but it is possible that it could be through a Professor. My advice is honestly to wait until June and just apply on plan, but if you really, really want to approach your Professors for LORs and then ask if they have any judges they would recommend you apply to. The "ask," of course, is two-tiered. You are trying to discern good matches, but a hope from the ask is going to be that the Professor offers to connect you with the judge.
Again, though, in your situation I would really just try to focus on grades and worry about this later and apply on plan. If you want to do pre-plan, you should be involved in Fed Soc and since you're not pre-plan is probably not going to be in the cards for you
I’m not sure what you’re asking specifically OP. Line up rec letters and apply to judges, and do it quickly. You’ll get some bites. More likely for 2025-26 or 2026-27 than for 2024-25 though.
Here’s a quick list of judges I would consider. Most to all of these hire off-plan, aren’t nutty, are reasonably selective, and hire liberals.
2: Park, and if they take apps off-plan (idk), Bianco, Livingston, and Sullivan.
3: Bibas, Hardiman, Phipps. I’m not sure if Matey hires liberals but if he does he’s maybe worth a shot.
4: Richardson. I have heard that clerking for Wilkinson is no longer a good experience and would avoid on that ground, but otherwise would list him.
5: Willett.
6: Kethledge, Larsen, Murphy, Sutton, Thapar.
7: Kirsch.
8: Stras.
9: Bennett, Bumatay, Bress, Collins, Ikuta, Lee. I’m not positive that the first three hire liberals though.
10: Tymkovich, and Eid if she takes apps off-plan.
11: Newsom, Grant. I don’t know enough about Brasher, Carnes, Lagoa, or Luck to recommend or not.
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Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
My understanding is that he doesn’t go into the office anymoreAnonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:28 amCan you elaborate on why Wilkinson is no longer a good experience?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:17 amBumatay hires clerks with a provable interest in originalism, which means he generally hires conservatives, but that's a function of what sort of person is most interested in originalism rather than a function of his political preferences. Moderate/progressive originalists with good grades are very much in the mix, and he's hired some before.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:47 pmThis advice is so bad that it could not have been given by someone actually competent to give advice on the clerkship market. Plenty of judges hire students without Fed Soc or connections off-plan.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:10 pmYou're not really gonna get anywhere at this stage without some sort of connection. Most of these connections are fed soc, but it is possible that it could be through a Professor. My advice is honestly to wait until June and just apply on plan, but if you really, really want to approach your Professors for LORs and then ask if they have any judges they would recommend you apply to. The "ask," of course, is two-tiered. You are trying to discern good matches, but a hope from the ask is going to be that the Professor offers to connect you with the judge.
Again, though, in your situation I would really just try to focus on grades and worry about this later and apply on plan. If you want to do pre-plan, you should be involved in Fed Soc and since you're not pre-plan is probably not going to be in the cards for you
I’m not sure what you’re asking specifically OP. Line up rec letters and apply to judges, and do it quickly. You’ll get some bites. More likely for 2025-26 or 2026-27 than for 2024-25 though.
Here’s a quick list of judges I would consider. Most to all of these hire off-plan, aren’t nutty, are reasonably selective, and hire liberals.
2: Park, and if they take apps off-plan (idk), Bianco, Livingston, and Sullivan.
3: Bibas, Hardiman, Phipps. I’m not sure if Matey hires liberals but if he does he’s maybe worth a shot.
4: Richardson. I have heard that clerking for Wilkinson is no longer a good experience and would avoid on that ground, but otherwise would list him.
5: Willett.
6: Kethledge, Larsen, Murphy, Sutton, Thapar.
7: Kirsch.
8: Stras.
9: Bennett, Bumatay, Bress, Collins, Ikuta, Lee. I’m not positive that the first three hire liberals though.
10: Tymkovich, and Eid if she takes apps off-plan.
11: Newsom, Grant. I don’t know enough about Brasher, Carnes, Lagoa, or Luck to recommend or not.
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Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
Is that just because of COVID? Would love to know the answer b/c I am seriously thinking about applying.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:15 amMy understanding is that he doesn’t go into the office anymoreAnonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:28 amCan you elaborate on why Wilkinson is no longer a good experience?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:17 amBumatay hires clerks with a provable interest in originalism, which means he generally hires conservatives, but that's a function of what sort of person is most interested in originalism rather than a function of his political preferences. Moderate/progressive originalists with good grades are very much in the mix, and he's hired some before.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:47 pmThis advice is so bad that it could not have been given by someone actually competent to give advice on the clerkship market. Plenty of judges hire students without Fed Soc or connections off-plan.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:10 pmYou're not really gonna get anywhere at this stage without some sort of connection. Most of these connections are fed soc, but it is possible that it could be through a Professor. My advice is honestly to wait until June and just apply on plan, but if you really, really want to approach your Professors for LORs and then ask if they have any judges they would recommend you apply to. The "ask," of course, is two-tiered. You are trying to discern good matches, but a hope from the ask is going to be that the Professor offers to connect you with the judge.
Again, though, in your situation I would really just try to focus on grades and worry about this later and apply on plan. If you want to do pre-plan, you should be involved in Fed Soc and since you're not pre-plan is probably not going to be in the cards for you
I’m not sure what you’re asking specifically OP. Line up rec letters and apply to judges, and do it quickly. You’ll get some bites. More likely for 2025-26 or 2026-27 than for 2024-25 though.
Here’s a quick list of judges I would consider. Most to all of these hire off-plan, aren’t nutty, are reasonably selective, and hire liberals.
2: Park, and if they take apps off-plan (idk), Bianco, Livingston, and Sullivan.
3: Bibas, Hardiman, Phipps. I’m not sure if Matey hires liberals but if he does he’s maybe worth a shot.
4: Richardson. I have heard that clerking for Wilkinson is no longer a good experience and would avoid on that ground, but otherwise would list him.
5: Willett.
6: Kethledge, Larsen, Murphy, Sutton, Thapar.
7: Kirsch.
8: Stras.
9: Bennett, Bumatay, Bress, Collins, Ikuta, Lee. I’m not positive that the first three hire liberals though.
10: Tymkovich, and Eid if she takes apps off-plan.
11: Newsom, Grant. I don’t know enough about Brasher, Carnes, Lagoa, or Luck to recommend or not.
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Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
Different anon confirming. It’s because of Covid, but as of this term, he still isn’t going into the office and his clerks don’t interact with him much. He also used to have all of his clerks run with him but now only picks one, which sounds trivial, but when it’s your only real interface with your judge that’s a big deal. He may change back eventually but my general impression is that his tendency towards eccentricity has increased as he’s aged.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:23 amIs that just because of COVID? Would love to know the answer b/c I am seriously thinking about applying.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:15 amMy understanding is that he doesn’t go into the office anymoreAnonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:28 amCan you elaborate on why Wilkinson is no longer a good experience?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:17 amBumatay hires clerks with a provable interest in originalism, which means he generally hires conservatives, but that's a function of what sort of person is most interested in originalism rather than a function of his political preferences. Moderate/progressive originalists with good grades are very much in the mix, and he's hired some before.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:47 pmThis advice is so bad that it could not have been given by someone actually competent to give advice on the clerkship market. Plenty of judges hire students without Fed Soc or connections off-plan.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:10 pmYou're not really gonna get anywhere at this stage without some sort of connection. Most of these connections are fed soc, but it is possible that it could be through a Professor. My advice is honestly to wait until June and just apply on plan, but if you really, really want to approach your Professors for LORs and then ask if they have any judges they would recommend you apply to. The "ask," of course, is two-tiered. You are trying to discern good matches, but a hope from the ask is going to be that the Professor offers to connect you with the judge.
Again, though, in your situation I would really just try to focus on grades and worry about this later and apply on plan. If you want to do pre-plan, you should be involved in Fed Soc and since you're not pre-plan is probably not going to be in the cards for you
I’m not sure what you’re asking specifically OP. Line up rec letters and apply to judges, and do it quickly. You’ll get some bites. More likely for 2025-26 or 2026-27 than for 2024-25 though.
Here’s a quick list of judges I would consider. Most to all of these hire off-plan, aren’t nutty, are reasonably selective, and hire liberals.
2: Park, and if they take apps off-plan (idk), Bianco, Livingston, and Sullivan.
3: Bibas, Hardiman, Phipps. I’m not sure if Matey hires liberals but if he does he’s maybe worth a shot.
4: Richardson. I have heard that clerking for Wilkinson is no longer a good experience and would avoid on that ground, but otherwise would list him.
5: Willett.
6: Kethledge, Larsen, Murphy, Sutton, Thapar.
7: Kirsch.
8: Stras.
9: Bennett, Bumatay, Bress, Collins, Ikuta, Lee. I’m not positive that the first three hire liberals though.
10: Tymkovich, and Eid if she takes apps off-plan.
11: Newsom, Grant. I don’t know enough about Brasher, Carnes, Lagoa, or Luck to recommend or not.
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Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
What are the other eccentricities?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:40 pmDifferent anon confirming. It’s because of Covid, but as of this term, he still isn’t going into the office and his clerks don’t interact with him much. He also used to have all of his clerks run with him but now only picks one, which sounds trivial, but when it’s your only real interface with your judge that’s a big deal. He may change back eventually but my general impression is that his tendency towards eccentricity has increased as he’s aged.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:23 amIs that just because of COVID? Would love to know the answer b/c I am seriously thinking about applying.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:15 amMy understanding is that he doesn’t go into the office anymoreAnonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:28 amCan you elaborate on why Wilkinson is no longer a good experience?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:17 amBumatay hires clerks with a provable interest in originalism, which means he generally hires conservatives, but that's a function of what sort of person is most interested in originalism rather than a function of his political preferences. Moderate/progressive originalists with good grades are very much in the mix, and he's hired some before.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:47 pmThis advice is so bad that it could not have been given by someone actually competent to give advice on the clerkship market. Plenty of judges hire students without Fed Soc or connections off-plan.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:10 pmYou're not really gonna get anywhere at this stage without some sort of connection. Most of these connections are fed soc, but it is possible that it could be through a Professor. My advice is honestly to wait until June and just apply on plan, but if you really, really want to approach your Professors for LORs and then ask if they have any judges they would recommend you apply to. The "ask," of course, is two-tiered. You are trying to discern good matches, but a hope from the ask is going to be that the Professor offers to connect you with the judge.
Again, though, in your situation I would really just try to focus on grades and worry about this later and apply on plan. If you want to do pre-plan, you should be involved in Fed Soc and since you're not pre-plan is probably not going to be in the cards for you
I’m not sure what you’re asking specifically OP. Line up rec letters and apply to judges, and do it quickly. You’ll get some bites. More likely for 2025-26 or 2026-27 than for 2024-25 though.
Here’s a quick list of judges I would consider. Most to all of these hire off-plan, aren’t nutty, are reasonably selective, and hire liberals.
2: Park, and if they take apps off-plan (idk), Bianco, Livingston, and Sullivan.
3: Bibas, Hardiman, Phipps. I’m not sure if Matey hires liberals but if he does he’s maybe worth a shot.
4: Richardson. I have heard that clerking for Wilkinson is no longer a good experience and would avoid on that ground, but otherwise would list him.
5: Willett.
6: Kethledge, Larsen, Murphy, Sutton, Thapar.
7: Kirsch.
8: Stras.
9: Bennett, Bumatay, Bress, Collins, Ikuta, Lee. I’m not positive that the first three hire liberals though.
10: Tymkovich, and Eid if she takes apps off-plan.
11: Newsom, Grant. I don’t know enough about Brasher, Carnes, Lagoa, or Luck to recommend or not.
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- Posts: 427954
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
Can confirm on both counts. He also does not hire ideologically.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:30 amJudge Bybee is a great judge to work for, but he follows the plan.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:40 pmmy comments in italics, also agree generally with listAnonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:23 amAgree with all the names on the list. Some friendly additions in bold.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:23 amThis advice is so bad that it could not have been given by someone actually competent to give advice on the clerkship market. Plenty of judges hire students without Fed Soc or connections off-plan.
I’m not sure what you’re asking specifically OP. Line up rec letters and apply to judges, and do it quickly. You’ll get some bites. More likely for 2025-26 or 2026-27 than for 2024-25 though.
Here’s a quick list of judges I would consider. Most to all of these hire off-plan, aren’t nutty, are reasonably selective, and hire liberals.
2: Park, and if they take apps off-plan (idk), Bianco, Livingston, and Sullivan. Livingston was on plan as of 2-3 years ago at least. Park saved a spot or two for the plan in prior years, and is pretty 'best athlete' in hiring.
3: Bibas, Hardiman, Phipps. I’m not sure if Matey hires liberals but if he does he’s maybe worth a shot. Matey has hired liberals (and is a great guy by all accounts)-- would help with him in particular to have a professor call. Bibas seems pretty non-ideological in hiring.
4: Richardson. I have heard that clerking for Wilkinson is no longer a good experience and would avoid on that ground, but otherwise would list him.
5: Willett.
6: Kethledge, Larsen, Murphy, Sutton, Thapar.
7: Sykes, Kirsch
8: Stras.
9: Bybee, Bennett, Bumatay, Bress, Collins, Ikuta, Lee. I’m not positive that the first three hire liberals though. This is second-hand but pretty sure Bumatay hires liberals.
10: Tymkovich, and Eid if she takes apps off-plan.
11: Newsom, Grant. I don’t know enough about Brasher, Carnes, Lagoa, or Luck to recommend or not.
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- Posts: 427954
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
Bibbas definitely hires left leaning people, have a friend who was involved in ACS who clerked for himAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:20 pmCan confirm on both counts. He also does not hire ideologically.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:30 amJudge Bybee is a great judge to work for, but he follows the plan.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:40 pmmy comments in italics, also agree generally with listAnonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:23 amAgree with all the names on the list. Some friendly additions in bold.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:23 amThis advice is so bad that it could not have been given by someone actually competent to give advice on the clerkship market. Plenty of judges hire students without Fed Soc or connections off-plan.
I’m not sure what you’re asking specifically OP. Line up rec letters and apply to judges, and do it quickly. You’ll get some bites. More likely for 2025-26 or 2026-27 than for 2024-25 though.
Here’s a quick list of judges I would consider. Most to all of these hire off-plan, aren’t nutty, are reasonably selective, and hire liberals.
2: Park, and if they take apps off-plan (idk), Bianco, Livingston, and Sullivan. Livingston was on plan as of 2-3 years ago at least. Park saved a spot or two for the plan in prior years, and is pretty 'best athlete' in hiring.
3: Bibas, Hardiman, Phipps. I’m not sure if Matey hires liberals but if he does he’s maybe worth a shot. Matey has hired liberals (and is a great guy by all accounts)-- would help with him in particular to have a professor call. Bibas seems pretty non-ideological in hiring.
4: Richardson. I have heard that clerking for Wilkinson is no longer a good experience and would avoid on that ground, but otherwise would list him.
5: Willett.
6: Kethledge, Larsen, Murphy, Sutton, Thapar.
7: Sykes, Kirsch
8: Stras.
9: Bybee, Bennett, Bumatay, Bress, Collins, Ikuta, Lee. I’m not positive that the first three hire liberals though. This is second-hand but pretty sure Bumatay hires liberals.
10: Tymkovich, and Eid if she takes apps off-plan.
11: Newsom, Grant. I don’t know enough about Brasher, Carnes, Lagoa, or Luck to recommend or not.
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- Posts: 1
- Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:25 am
Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
Eid hires off plan and she definitely hires liberals. The only issue is she is very slow. If she were interested, she probably wouldn’t move until just about after every other judge on this list.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:47 pmThis advice is so bad that it could not have been given by someone actually competent to give advice on the clerkship market. Plenty of judges hire students without Fed Soc or connections off-plan.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:10 pmYou're not really gonna get anywhere at this stage without some sort of connection. Most of these connections are fed soc, but it is possible that it could be through a Professor. My advice is honestly to wait until June and just apply on plan, but if you really, really want to approach your Professors for LORs and then ask if they have any judges they would recommend you apply to. The "ask," of course, is two-tiered. You are trying to discern good matches, but a hope from the ask is going to be that the Professor offers to connect you with the judge.
Again, though, in your situation I would really just try to focus on grades and worry about this later and apply on plan. If you want to do pre-plan, you should be involved in Fed Soc and since you're not pre-plan is probably not going to be in the cards for you
I’m not sure what you’re asking specifically OP. Line up rec letters and apply to judges, and do it quickly. You’ll get some bites. More likely for 2025-26 or 2026-27 than for 2024-25 though.
Here’s a quick list of judges I would consider. Most to all of these hire off-plan, aren’t nutty, are reasonably selective, and hire liberals.
2: Park, and if they take apps off-plan (idk), Bianco, Livingston, and Sullivan.
3: Bibas, Hardiman, Phipps. I’m not sure if Matey hires liberals but if he does he’s maybe worth a shot.
4: Richardson. I have heard that clerking for Wilkinson is no longer a good experience and would avoid on that ground, but otherwise would list him.
5: Willett.
6: Kethledge, Larsen, Murphy, Sutton, Thapar.
7: Kirsch.
8: Stras.
9: Bennett, Bumatay, Bress, Collins, Ikuta, Lee. I’m not positive that the first three hire liberals though.
10: Tymkovich, and Eid if she takes apps off-plan.
11: Newsom, Grant. I don’t know enough about Brasher, Carnes, Lagoa, or Luck to recommend or not.
-
- Posts: 427954
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Pre-Plan CoA Judges - Application Advice?
I believe that Eid used to exclusively hire from Chicago, Colorado, and Denver, though I don’t know if that’s still true since she was elevated. I know that age continues to hire heavily from Chicago.cirilec805 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:21 pmEid hires off plan and she definitely hires liberals. The only issue is she is very slow. If she were interested, she probably wouldn’t move until just about after every other judge on this list.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:47 pmThis advice is so bad that it could not have been given by someone actually competent to give advice on the clerkship market. Plenty of judges hire students without Fed Soc or connections off-plan.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:10 pmYou're not really gonna get anywhere at this stage without some sort of connection. Most of these connections are fed soc, but it is possible that it could be through a Professor. My advice is honestly to wait until June and just apply on plan, but if you really, really want to approach your Professors for LORs and then ask if they have any judges they would recommend you apply to. The "ask," of course, is two-tiered. You are trying to discern good matches, but a hope from the ask is going to be that the Professor offers to connect you with the judge.
Again, though, in your situation I would really just try to focus on grades and worry about this later and apply on plan. If you want to do pre-plan, you should be involved in Fed Soc and since you're not pre-plan is probably not going to be in the cards for you
I’m not sure what you’re asking specifically OP. Line up rec letters and apply to judges, and do it quickly. You’ll get some bites. More likely for 2025-26 or 2026-27 than for 2024-25 though.
Here’s a quick list of judges I would consider. Most to all of these hire off-plan, aren’t nutty, are reasonably selective, and hire liberals.
2: Park, and if they take apps off-plan (idk), Bianco, Livingston, and Sullivan.
3: Bibas, Hardiman, Phipps. I’m not sure if Matey hires liberals but if he does he’s maybe worth a shot.
4: Richardson. I have heard that clerking for Wilkinson is no longer a good experience and would avoid on that ground, but otherwise would list him.
5: Willett.
6: Kethledge, Larsen, Murphy, Sutton, Thapar.
7: Kirsch.
8: Stras.
9: Bennett, Bumatay, Bress, Collins, Ikuta, Lee. I’m not positive that the first three hire liberals though.
10: Tymkovich, and Eid if she takes apps off-plan.
11: Newsom, Grant. I don’t know enough about Brasher, Carnes, Lagoa, or Luck to recommend or not.
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