Withdrawing from clerkship Forum

[Anonymous User]

I’m doing a district court clerkship in 2023-24 and a circuit court clerkship in 2024-25. Both are located in the same major metro area. When I applied and interviewed (a while ago now), that’s where I thought I would be, geographically, for the foreseeable future.

I recently got married, and my SO has a dream job opportunity in a different city. While I’m willing still to do long distance for a year for the first clerkship, two years would be too much. (Law is my second career, so I’m a bit older and—long story short—would like to be in a position to start a family sooner rather than later.)

Does anyone have experience withdrawing from a clerkship? The catch is that I’d like to potentially reapply for an appellate clerkship in my new city for that second year, but maybe that’d be out of the question if I piss off my current COA judge. Without going into the specifics, this situation aside, I’d be a competitive applicant for any circuit (yes, I know nothing is a guarantee). I know people who have backed out of clerkships, but only because they, like, got pregnant right before their clerkship year started. So I’m wondering if there’s a way for me to still do two clerkships even if I withdraw from the second one I currently have lined up.

[Anonymous User]

I’m doing a district court clerkship in 2023-24 and a circuit court clerkship in 2024-25. Both are located in the same major metro area. When I applied and interviewed (a while ago now), that’s where I thought I would be, geographically, for the foreseeable future.

I recently got married, and my SO has a dream job opportunity in a different city. While I’m willing still to do long distance for a year for the first clerkship, two years would be too much. (Law is my second career, so I’m a bit older and—long story short—would like to be in a position to start a family sooner rather than later.)

Does anyone have experience withdrawing from a clerkship? The catch is that I’d like to potentially reapply for an appellate clerkship in my new city for that second year, but maybe that’d be out of the question if I piss off my current COA judge. Without going into the specifics, this situation aside, I’d be a competitive applicant for any circuit (yes, I know nothing is a guarantee). I know people who have backed out of clerkships, but only because they, like, got pregnant right before their clerkship year started. So I’m wondering if there’s a way for me to still do two clerkships even if I withdraw from the second one I currently have lined up.

Law school clerkship offices would never admit this, but--while not ideal--this is more common than you think. I had a co-clerk back out of each of my two clerkships, one a year-plus in advance and one just a few weeks in advance. So it happens often enough that judges know it's a possibility.

That said, much depends on your judge. I'd like to think most judges will be understanding and supportive here, especially since you're withdrawing 2 years before your start date and leaving them a ton of time to replace you. Explain the situation and what's changed since you accepted the clerkship. Give a good reason for why, if you're only able to leave your new city for one year, it makes sense for it to be for your district clerkship. All but the worst judges should be fully supportive of you in that situaiton.

[Anonymous User]

I’m doing a district court clerkship in 2023-24 and a circuit court clerkship in 2024-25. Both are located in the same major metro area. When I applied and interviewed (a while ago now), that’s where I thought I would be, geographically, for the foreseeable future.

I recently got married, and my SO has a dream job opportunity in a different city. While I’m willing still to do long distance for a year for the first clerkship, two years would be too much. (Law is my second career, so I’m a bit older and—long story short—would like to be in a position to start a family sooner rather than later.)

Does anyone have experience withdrawing from a clerkship? The catch is that I’d like to potentially reapply for an appellate clerkship in my new city for that second year, but maybe that’d be out of the question if I piss off my current COA judge. Without going into the specifics, this situation aside, I’d be a competitive applicant for any circuit (yes, I know nothing is a guarantee). I know people who have backed out of clerkships, but only because they, like, got pregnant right before their clerkship year started. So I’m wondering if there’s a way for me to still do two clerkships even if I withdraw from the second one I currently have lined up.

If you're willing to do one year, why is it the district court clerkship? What happens if something happens with your SO's dream job in the next two years and you've backed out of a CoA position?

[Anonymous User]

OP here. My thinking was just that potential fallout/inconvenience for my judge would be minimized, since they would have a longer timeframe (two years) to hire another clerk.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. My thinking was just that potential fallout/inconvenience for my judge would be minimized, since they would have a longer timeframe (two years) to hire another clerk.

I think you have to go both clerkships or none at all. It's weird to be like, "I'm not willing to do 2 years away from my SO, but I'm willing to do one year with Judge XYZ. But not one year with you."

[Anonymous User]

OP here. My thinking was just that potential fallout/inconvenience for my judge would be minimized, since they would have a longer timeframe (two years) to hire another clerk.

I think you have to go both clerkships or none at all. It's weird to be like, "I'm not willing to do 2 years away from my SO, but I'm willing to do one year with Judge XYZ. But not one year with you."

I disagree, for what it's worth. Simply say my family circumstances have changed and I'm not able to be in [CITY] in [YEAR], I really appreciate the opportunity and regret the situation, yadda yadda. He doesn't deserve an exhaustive explanation. At the end of the day, it's a job for which you are being paid, and you're giving him two years to fill your slot. Generally speaking, he can fill a federal COA slot in about thirty seconds.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. My thinking was just that potential fallout/inconvenience for my judge would be minimized, since they would have a longer timeframe (two years) to hire another clerk.

I think you have to go both clerkships or none at all. It's weird to be like, "I'm not willing to do 2 years away from my SO, but I'm willing to do one year with Judge XYZ. But not one year with you."

I disagree, for what it's worth. Simply say my family circumstances have changed and I'm not able to be in [CITY] in [YEAR], I really appreciate the opportunity and regret the situation, yadda yadda. He doesn't deserve an exhaustive explanation. At the end of the day, it's a job for which you are being paid, and you're giving him two years to fill your slot. Generally speaking, he can fill a federal COA slot in about thirty seconds.

Thanks. I can see both points of view. If I do withdraw from the second clerkship, would it be weird/inadvisable for me to try to secure a different COA (in my new city) for that term? Or do judges talk, and this might make another judge be hesitant to hire me? (I can’t imagine how they would find out; maybe my clerkships office just has me irrationally worried.)

[Anonymous User]

I understand your desire to give your COA judge as much notice as possible (and to apply elsewhere). But there would be more weight to your withdrawal if you reached out in the middle of your first clerkship to say that long distance has been rough (or that you are expecting a child) and that you won't be able to do another year. It reads like you gave it a shot and are forced to make a choice to do what is best of your family. Reaching out now to say you know you can do one year but not two comes across as a bit arbitrary, as though you're backing out over a hypothetical inconvenience.

Reaching out later would also allow you to have an upfront conversation with your judge. You'll be able to say more specifically the kind of flexibility you will need, and in turn the judge may be able to offer accommodations. You could say "for it to work, I'd need to be home with my wife for a week every month." Some judges would be fine with that and let you work remotely; others would say no, but then it's the judge that's turning you down rather than the other way around. You hopefully have a good idea of the kind of person your judge is, but I generally think that calling and saying "I can do one year away from my spouse but not two, so sorry but I have to withdraw" is not the best approach.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. My thinking was just that potential fallout/inconvenience for my judge would be minimized, since they would have a longer timeframe (two years) to hire another clerk.

I think you have to go both clerkships or none at all. It's weird to be like, "I'm not willing to do 2 years away from my SO, but I'm willing to do one year with Judge XYZ. But not one year with you."

I disagree, for what it's worth. Simply say my family circumstances have changed and I'm not able to be in [CITY] in [YEAR], I really appreciate the opportunity and regret the situation, yadda yadda. He doesn't deserve an exhaustive explanation. At the end of the day, it's a job for which you are being paid, and you're giving him two years to fill your slot. Generally speaking, he can fill a federal COA slot in about thirty seconds.

I disagree fairly strongly with both the bolded quote, and with the post immediately above mine. This business is about relationships and federal judges are people you should care about your relationship with. You can give the judge a succinct explanation if you think it's most appropriate for your situation, but the focus of your conversation with him should be problem-solving ("how do I re-align my career plans to fit my family's new situation?") as opposed to reading him an edict. Ideally, the judge will feel like you talked it through together and came to a mutual decision to withdraw (and this approach is most likely to result in the judge offering to help you find a clerkship elsewhere--no certainty, but some judges would absolutely do that).

I also disagree with the advice to spring this on your judge late in the process. That is a way to piss off both of your judges. If you know for a fact that you can't do two years away, the time to raise your hand about that is now.

[Anonymous User]

I would just suck it up and do both.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. My thinking was just that potential fallout/inconvenience for my judge would be minimized, since they would have a longer timeframe (two years) to hire another clerk.

I think you have to go both clerkships or none at all. It's weird to be like, "I'm not willing to do 2 years away from my SO, but I'm willing to do one year with Judge XYZ. But not one year with you."

I disagree, for what it's worth. Simply say my family circumstances have changed and I'm not able to be in [CITY] in [YEAR], I really appreciate the opportunity and regret the situation, yadda yadda. He doesn't deserve an exhaustive explanation. At the end of the day, it's a job for which you are being paid, and you're giving him two years to fill your slot. Generally speaking, he can fill a federal COA slot in about thirty seconds.

I disagree fairly strongly with both the bolded quote, and with the post immediately above mine. This business is about relationships and federal judges are people you should care about your relationship with. You can give the judge a succinct explanation if you think it's most appropriate for your situation, but the focus of your conversation with him should be problem-solving ("how do I re-align my career plans to fit my family's new situation?") as opposed to reading him an edict. Ideally, the judge will feel like you talked it through together and came to a mutual decision to withdraw (and this approach is most likely to result in the judge offering to help you find a clerkship elsewhere--no certainty, but some judges would absolutely do that).

I also disagree with the advice to spring this on your judge late in the process. That is a way to piss off both of your judges. If you know for a fact that you can't do two years away, the time to raise your hand about that is now.

I'm the poster who said that there would be advantages in waiting to tell the judge. I agree that it isn't good to spring this on the judge late in the process and that, if the OP knows they simply cannot clerk in two years that it is better to tell the judge sooner than later. My larger point is that, from what the OP has said so far, it does not seem like they *know* they can clerk for one year but not two; they should approach a conversation with their judge with reasons that are more specific than you predicting that long distance for two years will be hard. Perhaps OP already has those reasons. If so, talk to the judge now in the kind of dialogue the quoted poster suggests. But if you do not have more specific reasons for withdrawing, then those reasons may come up over the course of the next year or two. And if those reasons do not come up, then OP should consider sticking it out and clerking for the second judge.

[Anonymous User]

This may be obvious, but I would be really, really sure you or your spouse can't work remotely or hybrid. Remote trial court clerkships aren't really a thing but remote appellate clerkships are feasible, if not ideal.

Also, the advice to wait until the middle of your first clerkship to broach this with your second judge is horrendous. For judges, it's much more normal to hire one year out than to hire for an immediate-start clerkship. Likewise, do not send a federal judge a two-sentence email backing out of a clerkship. That would be seen as deeply unprofessional in the culture of the judiciary, and almost certainly would get back to your first judge, and potentially could get around beyond that. You need to have this conversation in-person or at least over the phone.

[Anonymous User]

This may be obvious, but I would be really, really sure you or your spouse can't work remotely or hybrid. Remote trial court clerkships aren't really a thing but remote appellate clerkships are feasible, if not ideal.

Also, the advice to wait until the middle of your first clerkship to broach this with your second judge is horrendous. For judges, it's much more normal to hire one year out than to hire for an immediate-start clerkship. Likewise, do not send a federal judge a two-sentence email backing out of a clerkship. That would be seen as deeply unprofessional in the culture of the judiciary, and almost certainly would get back to your first judge, and potentially could get around beyond that. You need to have this conversation in-person or at least over the phone.

Exactly this. You can tell on this thread who has clerked and who hasn't.

[Anonymous User]

I would just suck it up and do both.

This is the best advice I've seen. Backing out of a clerkship is very bad, especially as a result of circumstances you could've foreseen. Judges expect you to prioritize your commitment to them, even if that means long distance or asking your spouse to forego a dream job. If you can't do that, you need to talk to the judge ASAP to try to work something out. You should also let your school and recommenders know. Welshing on a clerkship can have lasting consequences for them as well as you.

[nixy]

I would just suck it up and do both.

This is the best advice I've seen. Backing out of a clerkship is very bad, especially as a result of circumstances you could've foreseen. Judges expect you to prioritize your commitment to them, even if that means long distance or asking your spouse to forego a dream job. If you can't do that, you need to talk to the judge ASAP to try to work something out. You should also let your school and recommenders know. Welshing on a clerkship can have lasting consequences for them as well as you.

So I think this can be true, but it can be a little overstated. Again, as with so many other things with clerking, it depends on the judge. I think that the above is a little harsh in talking about circumstances the OP could have foreseen; it’s not at all clear that the OP could have foreseen their spouse’s dream job opportunity. And I think many judges would be okay with someone saying “my spouse got an opportunity they couldn’t refuse in Different City X and therefore I have to withdraw,” especially for a 2024-25 clerkship where they do have lots of time to rehire. Many judges will understand if someone doesn’t want to do a long distance relationship. Sure, some won’t, but I don’t think there’s a universal take on this; plenty of judges are reasonable human beings. And honestly this kind of thing is much more likely to happen to a judge hiring that far out.

I do think it’s a little tougher to say “I’ll do one year but not two,” and I personally would suck it up and do both, especially if there’s a possibility to do remote/hybrid for the COA. But I don’t think withdrawing due to a change in family circumstances in itself should get you blackballed for life (as with so many things, it will depend how you handle it). Especially since the OP sounds like a really competitive candidate.

[Anonymous User]

Ask your COA judge if they would be open to a remote arrangement. Its more common than you think post COVID... or that you would be willing to fly in for hearings, since its likely just once a month.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. My thinking was just that potential fallout/inconvenience for my judge would be minimized, since they would have a longer timeframe (two years) to hire another clerk.

I think you have to go both clerkships or none at all. It's weird to be like, "I'm not willing to do 2 years away from my SO, but I'm willing to do one year with Judge XYZ. But not one year with you."

I disagree, for what it's worth. Simply say my family circumstances have changed and I'm not able to be in [CITY] in [YEAR], I really appreciate the opportunity and regret the situation, yadda yadda. He doesn't deserve an exhaustive explanation. At the end of the day, it's a job for which you are being paid, and you're giving him two years to fill your slot. Generally speaking, he can fill a federal COA slot in about thirty seconds.

I disagree fairly strongly with both the bolded quote, and with the post immediately above mine. This business is about relationships and federal judges are people you should care about your relationship with. You can give the judge a succinct explanation if you think it's most appropriate for your situation, but the focus of your conversation with him should be problem-solving ("how do I re-align my career plans to fit my family's new situation?") as opposed to reading him an edict. Ideally, the judge will feel like you talked it through together and came to a mutual decision to withdraw (and this approach is most likely to result in the judge offering to help you find a clerkship elsewhere--no certainty, but some judges would absolutely do that).

I also disagree with the advice to spring this on your judge late in the process. That is a way to piss off both of your judges. If you know for a fact that you can't do two years away, the time to raise your hand about that is now.

I am the bolded commenter, and yes, I actually agree with this added nuance. He deserves to feel like he was part of the solution, and you might benefit from problem-solving. I just don't think we need to treat clerkships as contracts with a sea-witch... they're just jobs. Things happen. Be cordial, be obeisant, but don't give yourself a hernia if you have no realistic option other than to withdraw.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. My thinking was just that potential fallout/inconvenience for my judge would be minimized, since they would have a longer timeframe (two years) to hire another clerk.

I think you have to go both clerkships or none at all. It's weird to be like, "I'm not willing to do 2 years away from my SO, but I'm willing to do one year with Judge XYZ. But not one year with you."

I disagree, for what it's worth. Simply say my family circumstances have changed and I'm not able to be in [CITY] in [YEAR], I really appreciate the opportunity and regret the situation, yadda yadda. He doesn't deserve an exhaustive explanation. At the end of the day, it's a job for which you are being paid, and you're giving him two years to fill your slot. Generally speaking, he can fill a federal COA slot in about thirty seconds.

I disagree fairly strongly with both the bolded quote, and with the post immediately above mine. This business is about relationships and federal judges are people you should care about your relationship with. You can give the judge a succinct explanation if you think it's most appropriate for your situation, but the focus of your conversation with him should be problem-solving ("how do I re-align my career plans to fit my family's new situation?") as opposed to reading him an edict. Ideally, the judge will feel like you talked it through together and came to a mutual decision to withdraw (and this approach is most likely to result in the judge offering to help you find a clerkship elsewhere--no certainty, but some judges would absolutely do that).

I also disagree with the advice to spring this on your judge late in the process. That is a way to piss off both of your judges. If you know for a fact that you can't do two years away, the time to raise your hand about that is now.

I am the bolded commenter, and yes, I actually agree with this added nuance. He deserves to feel like he was part of the solution, and you might benefit from problem-solving. I just don't think we need to treat clerkships as contracts with a sea-witch... they're just jobs. Things happen. Be cordial, be obeisant, but don't give yourself a hernia if you have no realistic option other than to withdraw.

Judges have been known to stop hiring from entire law schools after a clerk from that law school withdrew. Things happen, yes, but OP should take all reasonable steps to avoid withdrawing if possible. The unpleasantness of being long distance one more year (despite OP's willingness to do it one year) would not seem to most judges a good enough reason to back out.

[becodalapa]

Judges have been known to stop hiring from entire law schools after a clerk from that law school withdrew. Things happen, yes, but OP should take all reasonable steps to avoid withdrawing if possible. The unpleasantness of being long distance one more year (despite OP's willingness to do it one year) would not seem to most judges a good enough reason to back out.

Judges need to get over themselves.

[nixy]

OP here. My thinking was just that potential fallout/inconvenience for my judge would be minimized, since they would have a longer timeframe (two years) to hire another clerk.

I think you have to go both clerkships or none at all. It's weird to be like, "I'm not willing to do 2 years away from my SO, but I'm willing to do one year with Judge XYZ. But not one year with you."

I disagree, for what it's worth. Simply say my family circumstances have changed and I'm not able to be in [CITY] in [YEAR], I really appreciate the opportunity and regret the situation, yadda yadda. He doesn't deserve an exhaustive explanation. At the end of the day, it's a job for which you are being paid, and you're giving him two years to fill your slot. Generally speaking, he can fill a federal COA slot in about thirty seconds.

I disagree fairly strongly with both the bolded quote, and with the post immediately above mine. This business is about relationships and federal judges are people you should care about your relationship with. You can give the judge a succinct explanation if you think it's most appropriate for your situation, but the focus of your conversation with him should be problem-solving ("how do I re-align my career plans to fit my family's new situation?") as opposed to reading him an edict. Ideally, the judge will feel like you talked it through together and came to a mutual decision to withdraw (and this approach is most likely to result in the judge offering to help you find a clerkship elsewhere--no certainty, but some judges would absolutely do that).

I also disagree with the advice to spring this on your judge late in the process. That is a way to piss off both of your judges. If you know for a fact that you can't do two years away, the time to raise your hand about that is now.

I am the bolded commenter, and yes, I actually agree with this added nuance. He deserves to feel like he was part of the solution, and you might benefit from problem-solving. I just don't think we need to treat clerkships as contracts with a sea-witch... they're just jobs. Things happen. Be cordial, be obeisant, but don't give yourself a hernia if you have no realistic option other than to withdraw.

Judges have been known to stop hiring from entire law schools after a clerk from that law school withdrew. Things happen, yes, but OP should take all reasonable steps to avoid withdrawing if possible. The unpleasantness of being long distance one more year (despite OP's willingness to do it one year) would not seem to most judges a good enough reason to back out.

Some judges? Sure. I think most is pushing it. I think there are a lot of judges who would be annoyed to have to hire again, at the same time that they would consider not wanting to live apart from your spouse a legitimate reason to withdraw. Again, the OP didn't know about spouse's dream job offer when they accepted. But maybe I've been lucky enough to know especially humane judges.

[KEbro93]

This is a tricky situation but if there are any legitimate reasons aside from a looming health crisis, family stability is it.