Next steps Forum

[Anonymous User]

Here's my situation:

Rising 2L at lower T14. In one of the top few spots in my class, grade-wise. Some conservative indicators (including FedSoc) but my own views are a mixed bag. Applied to the top conservative feeders and didn't hear anything, so applied to some semi-feeders and got several bites and accepted an offer for '25-'26.

I guess what I'm mostly wondering is what I should do now to maximize whatever SCOTUS chances I have. Updating apps to top feeders? Applying to district judges? Holding tight and trying to get my next clerkship next year via the plan?

[Anonymous User]

If you truly think you are competitive for SCOTUS and want to go for it, update your apps for top feeder circuits and also apply again. Oh and also don't apply to any judges in the same circuit that you got, with the possible exception of double D.C. Circuit if the feeder you get is Katsas.

Edit: Oh also, you can always apply for feeders after/later... most don't say it is now or never.

[Anonymous User]

If you truly think you are competitive for SCOTUS and want to go for it, update your apps for top feeder circuits and also apply again. Oh and also don't apply to any judges in the same circuit that you got, with the possible exception of double D.C. Circuit if the feeder you get is Katsas.

Edit: Oh also, you can always apply for feeders after/later... most don't say it is now or never.

This, except I'd also apply to top feeders in the same circuit. If you have Grant, apply to Pryor. If you have Larsen, apply to Thapar. Double COA in a regional circuit happens and I haven't seen it hurt SCOTUS chances. The most important thing is getting your grades up. Unless your "lower T14" is UVA, you need to be #1 or as close as you can possibly get to #1. The other schools are not promised even 1 SCOTUS clerk every term.

[Anonymous User]

If you truly think you are competitive for SCOTUS and want to go for it, update your apps for top feeder circuits and also apply again. Oh and also don't apply to any judges in the same circuit that you got, with the possible exception of double D.C. Circuit if the feeder you get is Katsas.

Edit: Oh also, you can always apply for feeders after/later... most don't say it is now or never.

This, except I'd also apply to top feeders in the same circuit. If you have Grant, apply to Pryor. If you have Larsen, apply to Thapar. Double COA in a regional circuit happens and I haven't seen it hurt SCOTUS chances. The most important thing is getting your grades up. Unless your "lower T14" is UVA, you need to be #1 or as close as you can possibly get to #1. The other schools are not promised even 1 SCOTUS clerk every term.

Might not necessarily hurt his SCOTUS chances to double clerk in a single circuit, but it does look somewhat weird and if he strikes out on SCOTUS it looks better (and also you get broader networks) for having clerked on two circuits.

[Anonymous User]

If you truly think you are competitive for SCOTUS and want to go for it, update your apps for top feeder circuits and also apply again. Oh and also don't apply to any judges in the same circuit that you got, with the possible exception of double D.C. Circuit if the feeder you get is Katsas.

Edit: Oh also, you can always apply for feeders after/later... most don't say it is now or never.

This, except I'd also apply to top feeders in the same circuit. If you have Grant, apply to Pryor. If you have Larsen, apply to Thapar. Double COA in a regional circuit happens and I haven't seen it hurt SCOTUS chances. The most important thing is getting your grades up. Unless your "lower T14" is UVA, you need to be #1 or as close as you can possibly get to #1. The other schools are not promised even 1 SCOTUS clerk every term.

Might not necessarily hurt his SCOTUS chances to double clerk in a single circuit, but it does look somewhat weird and if he strikes out on SCOTUS it looks better (and also you get broader networks) for having clerked on two circuits.

Some people do this to avoid relocating their families unnecessarily. It's also viable if you plan to work within the circuit. I agree it would look weird to do two 5th Circuit clerkships and then move to California, though.

[Anonymous User]

In terms of desirability, I think it’s probably (1) major feeder, (2) district judge semi-feeder, (3) circuit judge semi-feeder or whatever district judge you would want if SCOTUS was no object, but that reflects your not-all-that-high SCOTUS chances and my general belief that double appellate makes little sense for most candidates.

[Anonymous User]

In terms of desirability, I think it’s probably (1) major feeder, (2) district judge semi-feeder, (3) circuit judge semi-feeder or whatever district judge you would want if SCOTUS was no object, but that reflects your not-all-that-high SCOTUS chances and my general belief that double appellate makes little sense for most candidates.

This is going to depend on what OP means by semi-feeder. Assuming OP's school is not UVA, I really think OP is going to need a major appellate feeder to get in.

[Anonymous User]

I think it's pretty unlikely any judge is hiring a clerk from the same circuit.

[Anonymous User]

In terms of desirability, I think it’s probably (1) major feeder, (2) district judge semi-feeder, (3) circuit judge semi-feeder or whatever district judge you would want if SCOTUS was no object, but that reflects your not-all-that-high SCOTUS chances and my general belief that double appellate makes little sense for most candidates.

This is going to depend on what OP means by semi-feeder. Assuming OP's school is not UVA, I really think OP is going to need a major appellate feeder to get in.

I agree with you, I think?

[Anonymous User]

In terms of desirability, I think it’s probably (1) major feeder, (2) district judge semi-feeder, (3) circuit judge semi-feeder or whatever district judge you would want if SCOTUS was no object, but that reflects your not-all-that-high SCOTUS chances and my general belief that double appellate makes little sense for most candidates.

This is going to depend on what OP means by semi-feeder. Assuming OP's school is not UVA, I really think OP is going to need a major appellate feeder to get in.

I agree with you, I think?

I think we agree for the most part. My more disagreement was that OP should even be considering district courts if they really want SCOTUS. I'm saying for SCOTUS at this point for OP it is major appellate feeder or no SCOTUS. I don't really think a district judge semi-feeder is going to help him all that much. Doing a district court—especially with a semi-feeder DJ—is a fine experience. But if OP is serious about SCOTUS he is going to need to start looking at like O'Scannlain, Katsas, Pryor, etc...

[Anonymous User]

In terms of desirability, I think it’s probably (1) major feeder, (2) district judge semi-feeder, (3) circuit judge semi-feeder or whatever district judge you would want if SCOTUS was no object, but that reflects your not-all-that-high SCOTUS chances and my general belief that double appellate makes little sense for most candidates.

This is going to depend on what OP means by semi-feeder. Assuming OP's school is not UVA, I really think OP is going to need a major appellate feeder to get in.

I agree with you, I think?

I think we agree for the most part. My more disagreement was that OP should even be considering district courts if they really want SCOTUS. I'm saying for SCOTUS at this point for OP it is major appellate feeder or no SCOTUS. I don't really think a district judge semi-feeder is going to help him all that much. Doing a district court—especially with a semi-feeder DJ—is a fine experience. But if OP is serious about SCOTUS he is going to need to start looking at like O'Scannlain, Katsas, Pryor, etc...

I mean, if OP can get Dabney Friedrich or Rachel Kovner, s/he should take it in a heartbeat. But yes, if the goal is SCOTUS, focus on getting a second circuit clerkship from a known feeder, ideally on the DC Cir, but hardly exclusively.

I agree that it matters quite a bit what OP meant by "semi-feeder." If it's someone like Edith Jones who doesn't feed all the time but has placed plenty of clerks on her own, I'd be less overwhelmingly focused on grabbing a big feeder and would apply more broadly, including to some of the younger Trump judges who haven't fed yet but have the credentials and relationships to potentially start doing so. If OP's judge is someone who has only fed a clerk or two, or who has fed mostly in conjunction with bigger names, the focus really needs to be on said big names.

OP, this is also a good time to start considering your "mixed bag" of views. The conservative Justices range a decent amount in how much they care about ideology. Thomas has been historically the most willing to dip a bit, both in terms of grades and school ranking, for someone who shares his views. Alito also cares quite a bit about ideology. The others seem to be a bit more heterogenous, with Gorsuch favoring experience quite a bit, and Roberts perhaps caring the least about ideology of the current nine.

[Anonymous User]

I think it's pretty unlikely any judge is hiring a clerk from the same circuit.

This is demonstrably very false. Double COA clerks with judges from the same circuit happen all the time.

[Anonymous User]

I think it's pretty unlikely any judge is hiring a clerk from the same circuit.

This is demonstrably very false. Double COA clerks with judges from the same circuit happen all the time.

Taking off the SCOTUS-world cap for a second, some judges definitely don't look kindly on this. My judge had a categorical policy of not hiring someone who had clerked for another judge on the court, or recommending his clerks to another judge on the court, because of conflict-of-loyalty reasons if both judges ended up on a panel. That position isn't universal and double clerks do happen (there have been a lot on the 6th recently with people who Thapar initially hired for EDKY), but it's something people applying within their own circuit should be aware of.

[Anonymous User]

I think it's pretty unlikely any judge is hiring a clerk from the same circuit.

This is demonstrably very false. Double COA clerks with judges from the same circuit happen all the time.

I can think of one person that was not because of promotions between district/circuit courts or health reasons. It's not that common, and I imagine there is quite a bit behind the scenes activity when it does.

[Anonymous User]

I think it's pretty unlikely any judge is hiring a clerk from the same circuit.

This is demonstrably very false. Double COA clerks with judges from the same circuit happen all the time.

I’ve seen it twice (besides the Thapar exception) and I know a lot of people in this world. Not unheard of but not common.

[Anonymous User]

I think it's pretty unlikely any judge is hiring a clerk from the same circuit.

This is demonstrably very false. Double COA clerks with judges from the same circuit happen all the time.

I’ve seen it twice (besides the Thapar exception) and I know a lot of people in this world. Not unheard of but not common.

I know several, mostly on the Sixth Circuit. The feeders/semi-feeders there get along well and jointly hire clerks from time to time. I wouldn't do this unless I wanted to practice in the Sixth Circuit, though.

[Anonymous User]

Here's my situation:

Rising 2L at lower T14. In one of the top few spots in my class, grade-wise. Some conservative indicators (including FedSoc) but my own views are a mixed bag. Applied to the top conservative feeders and didn't hear anything, so applied to some semi-feeders and got several bites and accepted an offer for '25-'26.

I guess what I'm mostly wondering is what I should do now to maximize whatever SCOTUS chances I have. Updating apps to top feeders? Applying to district judges? Holding tight and trying to get my next clerkship next year via the plan?

First, you should think about how much you want scotus / how realistic your chances are even if you max them. Truly going for it will be costly.

If you want to gun for scotus and lean generally right, the most important thing you can do first is to increase your connects to the legal right. Meet prominent conservatives, associate with conservative orgs, write some conservative stuff. The number one limiting factor these days is going to be ideology / commitment to the movement. If you only look meh on those fronts, your credentials have to be much stronger (stronger than you likely can get to).

Next, obviously increase your class rank as much as possible. Outside of the top 5 scotus schools, being as close to number one in your class is going to be very important. Build your recs too, of course—especially those with connects on the right.

As it pertains to second clerkships, you’re right that you will probably need a second clerkship. The second app clerkship is increasingly common on the right these days. I don’t think the same circuit matters as much as some are suggesting; apply to everyone with significant feeding potential and see how you do. I think that the top couple of district court clerkships (eg Friedrich and Kovner) are functionally the same from a feeding potential; they know the justices well, recommend lots of clerks, and have sent people up with semi feeder COA clerkships.

Lastly, be realistic about your justices and odds. If you’re in FedSoc, I think there’s virtually zero chance the liberal three will hire you regardless of anything else. Roberts is the snobbiest on grades and pretty much only hires HYS so I’d say your odds aren’t good there too. Kav relies on a small circle of folks who are close to him, so you will need a prof / judge / other figure to get you through the door there. Alito and Thomas mostly hire for ideology—so unless you can do step one here, being merely marginally conservative will probably doom you there. We don’t know a ton about Barrett, and Gorsuch is a bit of a wild card.

[Anonymous User]

The above comment is great advice. I also want to note, as an unsuccessful SCOTUS gunner, that while costly, SCOTUS gunning can itself be a rewarding way to start your career.

When I was in your shoes (top handful of students at a mid-T14), I knew SCOTUS was a longshot, but I ended up enjoying the heck out of getting to clerk twice, including once in a city I never would have otherwise lived in. I loved both my judges, and while I gave up substantial money by not working those two years in biglaw, I also learned quickly that I hated biglaw. In the process, I also got to network with some interesting people who might help me eventually work in a Republican administration, assuming the great orange seditionist is eventually shown the door and my interest in the GOP can be rekindled.

I probably wouldn't have done this, which entailed a lot of moving and two years of living on a clerk salary, if I had a family, or even if I had been a bit older. But as a 26-year-old, it was a great way to start my career.

Also re: Gorsuch, I am interested to see if he emerges as a destination for people who missed out on Thomas, Alito, etc. during the "normal" period following law school when people generally apply to clerk, but who crush it in practice or in academia in the first 5-plus years of their career. He has hired some very interesting and accomplished mid-career clerks.

[Anonymous User]

The above comment is great advice. I also want to note, as an unsuccessful SCOTUS gunner, that while costly, SCOTUS gunning can itself be a rewarding way to start your career.

When I was in your shoes (top handful of students at a mid-T14), I knew SCOTUS was a longshot, but I ended up enjoying the heck out of getting to clerk twice, including once in a city I never would have otherwise lived in. I loved both my judges, and while I gave up substantial money by not working those two years in biglaw, I also learned quickly that I hated biglaw. In the process, I also got to network with some interesting people who might help me eventually work in a Republican administration, assuming the great orange seditionist is eventually shown the door and my interest in the GOP can be rekindled.

I probably wouldn't have done this, which entailed a lot of moving and two years of living on a clerk salary, if I had a family, or even if I had been a bit older. But as a 26-year-old, it was a great way to start my career.

Also re: Gorsuch, I am interested to see if he emerges as a destination for people who missed out on Thomas, Alito, etc. during the "normal" period following law school when people generally apply to clerk, but who crush it in practice or in academia in the first 5-plus years of their career. He has hired some very interesting and accomplished mid-career clerks.

Definitely a healthy way to approach what is frankly a brutal career path. Trying to get a SCOTUS clerkship is like getting struck by lightning—think about the number of extraordinary candidates who miss out every year.