Most liberal federal judges? Forum

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:11 pm
I’d add to this Motz on the Fourth Circuit (extremely liberal well respected and has fed clerks in the past, but going senior). In the category of very well respected and liberal but not quite feeders on CA4 I’d also add Harris and Heytens (new but this is a projection).
I'd look out for Heytens to become a potential feeder. Unsure of where he'll fall among the CA4 judges on the left, but it's a friendlier court for a liberal clerk.

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:11 pm
I’d add to this Motz on the Fourth Circuit (extremely liberal well respected and has fed clerks in the past, but going senior). In the category of very well respected and liberal but not quite feeders on CA4 I’d also add Harris and Heytens (new but this is a projection).
I'd look out for Heytens to become a potential feeder. Unsure of where he'll fall among the CA4 judges on the left, but it's a friendlier court for a liberal clerk.
The fact that Heytens chose to have his chambers in Alexandria, instead of Charlottesville (where he lived and taught for 15 years and where he and his wife had a very nice home) and the better cost-of-living it offers, tells you everything you need to know about his goals for his tenure.

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:28 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:11 pm
I’d add to this Motz on the Fourth Circuit (extremely liberal well respected and has fed clerks in the past, but going senior). In the category of very well respected and liberal but not quite feeders on CA4 I’d also add Harris and Heytens (new but this is a projection).
I'd look out for Heytens to become a potential feeder. Unsure of where he'll fall among the CA4 judges on the left, but it's a friendlier court for a liberal clerk.
The fact that Heytens chose to have his chambers in Alexandria, instead of Charlottesville (where he lived and taught for 15 years and where he and his wife had a very nice home) and the better cost-of-living it offers, tells you everything you need to know about his goals for his tenure.
Not from Virginia, can someone explain what this means?

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:28 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:11 pm
I’d add to this Motz on the Fourth Circuit (extremely liberal well respected and has fed clerks in the past, but going senior). In the category of very well respected and liberal but not quite feeders on CA4 I’d also add Harris and Heytens (new but this is a projection).
I'd look out for Heytens to become a potential feeder. Unsure of where he'll fall among the CA4 judges on the left, but it's a friendlier court for a liberal clerk.
The fact that Heytens chose to have his chambers in Alexandria, instead of Charlottesville (where he lived and taught for 15 years and where he and his wife had a very nice home) and the better cost-of-living it offers, tells you everything you need to know about his goals for his tenure.
Not from Virginia, can someone explain what this means?

Charlottesville is 2 hours away from DC, while Alexandria is a 20 min metro ride. Means Heytens wants to network and make noise with DC power brokers.


He’s delusional if he thinks he’s ever making it to the Court though, I strongly suspect Breyer will be the last straight white man a Democrat confirms to SCOTUS for a very long time.

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:09 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:28 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:11 pm
I’d add to this Motz on the Fourth Circuit (extremely liberal well respected and has fed clerks in the past, but going senior). In the category of very well respected and liberal but not quite feeders on CA4 I’d also add Harris and Heytens (new but this is a projection).
I'd look out for Heytens to become a potential feeder. Unsure of where he'll fall among the CA4 judges on the left, but it's a friendlier court for a liberal clerk.
The fact that Heytens chose to have his chambers in Alexandria, instead of Charlottesville (where he lived and taught for 15 years and where he and his wife had a very nice home) and the better cost-of-living it offers, tells you everything you need to know about his goals for his tenure.
Not from Virginia, can someone explain what this means?

Charlottesville is 2 hours away from DC, while Alexandria is a 20 min metro ride. Means Heytens wants to network and make noise with DC power brokers.


He’s delusional if he thinks he’s ever making it to the Court though, I strongly suspect Breyer will be the last straight white man a Democrat confirms to SCOTUS for a very long time.
Agree that Heytens' move to Alexandria is unusual, but relocating for SCOTUS makes no sense - regardless of who the Dems would want to nominate, the rural bias in the Senate means that KBJ is probably the last Democratic appointee on SCOTUS for a decade if not a generation (unless the Dems hold the Senate this fall and Thomas or Alito die before 2024 - the chance of which is so small that it's practically nonexistant).

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Chokenhauer

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Chokenhauer » Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:08 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:09 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:28 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:11 pm
I’d add to this Motz on the Fourth Circuit (extremely liberal well respected and has fed clerks in the past, but going senior). In the category of very well respected and liberal but not quite feeders on CA4 I’d also add Harris and Heytens (new but this is a projection).
I'd look out for Heytens to become a potential feeder. Unsure of where he'll fall among the CA4 judges on the left, but it's a friendlier court for a liberal clerk.
The fact that Heytens chose to have his chambers in Alexandria, instead of Charlottesville (where he lived and taught for 15 years and where he and his wife had a very nice home) and the better cost-of-living it offers, tells you everything you need to know about his goals for his tenure.
Not from Virginia, can someone explain what this means?

Charlottesville is 2 hours away from DC, while Alexandria is a 20 min metro ride. Means Heytens wants to network and make noise with DC power brokers.


He’s delusional if he thinks he’s ever making it to the Court though, I strongly suspect Breyer will be the last straight white man a Democrat confirms to SCOTUS for a very long time.
Agree that Heytens' move to Alexandria is unusual, but relocating for SCOTUS makes no sense - regardless of who the Dems would want to nominate, the rural bias in the Senate means that KBJ is probably the last Democratic appointee on SCOTUS for a decade if not a generation (unless the Dems hold the Senate this fall and Thomas or Alito die before 2024 - the chance of which is so small that it's practically nonexistant).
The chance of Democrats keeping the Senate isn’t negligible. A week is a long time in politics. You’re probably right about the justices though.

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:46 am

Chokenhauer wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:47 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:08 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:09 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:28 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:11 pm
I’d add to this Motz on the Fourth Circuit (extremely liberal well respected and has fed clerks in the past, but going senior). In the category of very well respected and liberal but not quite feeders on CA4 I’d also add Harris and Heytens (new but this is a projection).
I'd look out for Heytens to become a potential feeder. Unsure of where he'll fall among the CA4 judges on the left, but it's a friendlier court for a liberal clerk.
The fact that Heytens chose to have his chambers in Alexandria, instead of Charlottesville (where he lived and taught for 15 years and where he and his wife had a very nice home) and the better cost-of-living it offers, tells you everything you need to know about his goals for his tenure.
Not from Virginia, can someone explain what this means?

Charlottesville is 2 hours away from DC, while Alexandria is a 20 min metro ride. Means Heytens wants to network and make noise with DC power brokers.


He’s delusional if he thinks he’s ever making it to the Court though, I strongly suspect Breyer will be the last straight white man a Democrat confirms to SCOTUS for a very long time.
Agree that Heytens' move to Alexandria is unusual, but relocating for SCOTUS makes no sense - regardless of who the Dems would want to nominate, the rural bias in the Senate means that KBJ is probably the last Democratic appointee on SCOTUS for a decade if not a generation (unless the Dems hold the Senate this fall and Thomas or Alito die before 2024 - the chance of which is so small that it's practically nonexistant).
The chance of Democrats keeping the Senate isn’t negligible. A week is a long time in politics. You’re probably right about the justices though.
I’m pretty sure OP meant that Heytens’s move signals that he wants to become a feeder, not that he wants to become a Justice.

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:31 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:38 pm
I can't speak to what the other liberals on the 11th do but RSR's clerk's hours are nowhere near 9-9. 9-7 sounds about right (which is more than a lot of other circuit judges).
9-7 is what I think of as "standard long-ish hours" for a clerkship. 9-5 is "easy hours." I think most judges work their clerks somewhere between this 8-10 hour per day window (as both of mine have).

Anything more than 9-7, maybe outside of a handful of busy districts that institutionally have long hours, is an outlier judge, as is regular weekend work (outside of trial weeks, emergency duty months, etc.).
Wow (before poster re hours). I should have applied then, I held off because I didn’t want to put in 9-9/10pm hours unless it was dc cir or a chance at SCOTUS….guess i got bad intel

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:46 am

DC Cir has really short hours. Courts with really punishing hours are certain high-caseload districts—of the biggies SDNY and the California districts, especially ED Cal, which had a crisis in the Trump era, are supposed to be the worst.

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theneuro

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by theneuro » Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:46 am
DC Cir has really short hours. Courts with really punishing hours are certain high-caseload districts—of the biggies SDNY and the California districts, especially ED Cal, which had a crisis in the Trump era, are supposed to be the worst.
Generally true, but Millett’s clerks would disagree. ND Cal. has long hours and also some of the most liberal judges.

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:37 pm

You don't seem persuadable on this issue, but ask the most liberal person you know who clerked on CA2 what Pooler's rep is. The answer will undoubtedly be "very bad." When I clerked on the court, she was universally considered the worst judge. Writing is bad, reasoning is bad, and incredibly slow in issuing opinions. And to preempt the inevitable ad hominem, Carney was way, way, way better, as were all of Pooler's ideological compatriots (Lohier, Calabresi, etc.).

As just one illustration, see Pooler's en banc opinion in Scott, which couldn't even get Katzmann or Lohier's vote, and which (if you actually read the opinion) wasn't even really joined by Leval or Carney either.

If your measure of a good judge is one who "calls out" the conservatives, I guess she's great, though. (By that standard Menashi is the best conservative judge on the court, which is also not something basically anybody who knows the court would agree with.)
About preempting the ad hominem, is the idea that Carney is also a woman and fairly liberal? Or does she have a similar reputation (despite being “way, way, way better” than Pooler)?

Curious what Carney’s rep is. I have heard great things about her, but that is third-hand. I know some of the people from my school who will be clerking for her, and they are super impressive — but so were the people I knew who clerked for Pooler, so…

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:46 am
Chokenhauer wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:47 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:08 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:09 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:28 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:53 pm


I'd look out for Heytens to become a potential feeder. Unsure of where he'll fall among the CA4 judges on the left, but it's a friendlier court for a liberal clerk.
The fact that Heytens chose to have his chambers in Alexandria, instead of Charlottesville (where he lived and taught for 15 years and where he and his wife had a very nice home) and the better cost-of-living it offers, tells you everything you need to know about his goals for his tenure.
Not from Virginia, can someone explain what this means?

Charlottesville is 2 hours away from DC, while Alexandria is a 20 min metro ride. Means Heytens wants to network and make noise with DC power brokers.


He’s delusional if he thinks he’s ever making it to the Court though, I strongly suspect Breyer will be the last straight white man a Democrat confirms to SCOTUS for a very long time.
Agree that Heytens' move to Alexandria is unusual, but relocating for SCOTUS makes no sense - regardless of who the Dems would want to nominate, the rural bias in the Senate means that KBJ is probably the last Democratic appointee on SCOTUS for a decade if not a generation (unless the Dems hold the Senate this fall and Thomas or Alito die before 2024 - the chance of which is so small that it's practically nonexistant).
The chance of Democrats keeping the Senate isn’t negligible. A week is a long time in politics. You’re probably right about the justices though.
I’m pretty sure OP meant that Heytens’s move signals that he wants to become a feeder, not that he wants to become a Justice.
This is indeed what I meant. Heytens knows he has no shot. He wants to be within the orbit of DC to increase his own profile as much as possible, both on and off the bench, including attracting law clerk applicants who will be more likely to apply to him in Alexandria than in Charlottesville.

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:35 am

At my HYS, the two district judges the PI-focused professors tend to steer people to are Keith Ellison (SDTX) and Myron Thompson (MDAL), both of whom, I hear, are brilliant and decent judges to work for.

On the appellate side, I agree with many of the names previously mentioned in the thread (particularly Berzon (CA9), Fletcher (CA9), H. Thomas (CA9), and Wood (CA7)). But I'd also add some of the higher-profile liberal dissenters on more conservative circuits (Moore (CA6) and Higginson (CA5) come to mind), for the same reason the district judges I mentioned tend to be so popular: it's a good way to learn how to lawyer under adverse case law.

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:35 am
At my HYS, the two district judges the PI-focused professors tend to steer people to are Keith Ellison (SDTX) and Myron Thompson (MDAL), both of whom, I hear, are brilliant and decent judges to work for.

On the appellate side, I agree with many of the names previously mentioned in the thread (particularly Berzon (CA9), Fletcher (CA9), H. Thomas (CA9), and Wood (CA7)). But I'd also add some of the higher-profile liberal dissenters on more conservative circuits (Moore (CA6) and Higginson (CA5) come to mind), for the same reason the district judges I mentioned tend to be so popular: it's a good way to learn how to lawyer under adverse case law.
I'd add Kelly (CA8) to that second group also.

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:44 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:35 am
At my HYS, the two district judges the PI-focused professors tend to steer people to are Keith Ellison (SDTX) and Myron Thompson (MDAL), both of whom, I hear, are brilliant and decent judges to work for.

On the appellate side, I agree with many of the names previously mentioned in the thread (particularly Berzon (CA9), Fletcher (CA9), H. Thomas (CA9), and Wood (CA7)). But I'd also add some of the higher-profile liberal dissenters on more conservative circuits (Moore (CA6) and Higginson (CA5) come to mind), for the same reason the district judges I mentioned tend to be so popular: it's a good way to learn how to lawyer under adverse case law.
I'd add Kelly (CA8) to that second group also.
Kelly is supposed to be really great to clerk for and definitely looks for public interest-oriented applicants. She doesn’t seem to care that much about ties to Iowa and the Cedar Rapids/Iowa City area is a nice place to live, it’s not rural or anything.

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:06 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:44 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:35 am
At my HYS, the two district judges the PI-focused professors tend to steer people to are Keith Ellison (SDTX) and Myron Thompson (MDAL), both of whom, I hear, are brilliant and decent judges to work for.

On the appellate side, I agree with many of the names previously mentioned in the thread (particularly Berzon (CA9), Fletcher (CA9), H. Thomas (CA9), and Wood (CA7)). But I'd also add some of the higher-profile liberal dissenters on more conservative circuits (Moore (CA6) and Higginson (CA5) come to mind), for the same reason the district judges I mentioned tend to be so popular: it's a good way to learn how to lawyer under adverse case law.
I'd add Kelly (CA8) to that second group also.
Kelly is supposed to be really great to clerk for and definitely looks for public interest-oriented applicants. She doesn’t seem to care that much about ties to Iowa and the Cedar Rapids/Iowa City area is a nice place to live, it’s not rural or anything.
Heard basically the same thing about Jane Stranch on the Sixth, except that she does prefer ties to Tennessee or the CA6 states. I believe she's hired PI-focused folks without strong ties though, and Nashville would be a fun place to live for a year.

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:49 pm

theneuro wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:05 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:46 am
DC Cir has really short hours. Courts with really punishing hours are certain high-caseload districts—of the biggies SDNY and the California districts, especially ED Cal, which had a crisis in the Trump era, are supposed to be the worst.
Generally true, but Millett’s clerks would disagree. ND Cal. has long hours and also some of the most liberal judges.
Clerked on CADC. Shortest average hours of any circuit by far and quite a bit less busy than a busy district (which I was super excited and sought out tbh lol). Mostly because the docket is so sparse in comparison to the dockets with lots of crim, immigration, habeas, etc cases. If you look at the year-end stats, it's actually hilarious how low the pub opinions per judge are, especially now after the Obama expansion of the active seats. And despite some admin/SOP opinions being quite complex, in my experience, many are quite simple. The circuit in general does a good job keeping opinions short and tight, and there are very few en bancs and very few concurrences/dissents given the circuit's culture of comity and unanimity.

Within that culture, Millett's hours are flat out abusive. She has her clerks moot some of the cases, which is silly because this is not some appellate advocacy 2L course. And her opinions are bloated law review articles. We were on panels with her a lot, and it was insufferable how much useless shit she stuffed into the opinions she writing for. Maybe the most obtuse of the active judges to sit on a panel with IMO

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:49 pm
theneuro wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:05 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:46 am
DC Cir has really short hours. Courts with really punishing hours are certain high-caseload districts—of the biggies SDNY and the California districts, especially ED Cal, which had a crisis in the Trump era, are supposed to be the worst.
Generally true, but Millett’s clerks would disagree. ND Cal. has long hours and also some of the most liberal judges.
Clerked on CADC. Shortest average hours of any circuit by far and quite a bit less busy than a busy district (which I was super excited and sought out tbh lol). Mostly because the docket is so sparse in comparison to the dockets with lots of crim, immigration, habeas, etc cases. If you look at the year-end stats, it's actually hilarious how low the pub opinions per judge are, especially now after the Obama expansion of the active seats. And despite some admin/SOP opinions being quite complex, in my experience, many are quite simple. The circuit in general does a good job keeping opinions short and tight, and there are very few en bancs and very few concurrences/dissents given the circuit's culture of comity and unanimity.

Within that culture, Millett's hours are flat out abusive. She has her clerks moot some of the cases, which is silly because this is not some appellate advocacy 2L course. And her opinions are bloated law review articles. We were on panels with her a lot, and it was insufferable how much useless shit she stuffed into the opinions she writing for. Maybe the most obtuse of the active judges to sit on a panel with IMO
I saw Millett judge a moot court competition once, and she was a more exhausting questioner there than any other appellate judge I have ever seen with the possible exception of Sandra Lynch (who I saw judging in real court, not moot court). That's not totally a bad thing, it's obvious both of them have enormous mental horsepower and love drilling as hard as they can into questions of fact and law. But it would be exhausting to appear before either, and I can imagine it would be a similar experience clerking for either.

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:59 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:37 pm

You don't seem persuadable on this issue, but ask the most liberal person you know who clerked on CA2 what Pooler's rep is. The answer will undoubtedly be "very bad." When I clerked on the court, she was universally considered the worst judge. Writing is bad, reasoning is bad, and incredibly slow in issuing opinions. And to preempt the inevitable ad hominem, Carney was way, way, way better, as were all of Pooler's ideological compatriots (Lohier, Calabresi, etc.).

As just one illustration, see Pooler's en banc opinion in Scott, which couldn't even get Katzmann or Lohier's vote, and which (if you actually read the opinion) wasn't even really joined by Leval or Carney either.

If your measure of a good judge is one who "calls out" the conservatives, I guess she's great, though. (By that standard Menashi is the best conservative judge on the court, which is also not something basically anybody who knows the court would agree with.)
About preempting the ad hominem, is the idea that Carney is also a woman and fairly liberal? Or does she have a similar reputation (despite being “way, way, way better” than Pooler)?

Curious what Carney’s rep is. I have heard great things about her, but that is third-hand. I know some of the people from my school who will be clerking for her, and they are super impressive — but so were the people I knew who clerked for Pooler, so…
Bumping this. I’ve heard that my school’s clerkship office has been pushing strong applicants (esp with a public interest bent) toward Carney for a while now, and they even told one of my friends that she has “sometimes” sent people to SCOTUS. AFAIK, though, it looks like she’s only sent one? But I am curious about how a clerkship with her is regarded and how competitive it is. I was just surprised that some of these applicants have Carney high on their list when they might be competitive for some of the other “higher profile” (and active) judges on 2 and elsewhere.

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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:59 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:37 pm

You don't seem persuadable on this issue, but ask the most liberal person you know who clerked on CA2 what Pooler's rep is. The answer will undoubtedly be "very bad." When I clerked on the court, she was universally considered the worst judge. Writing is bad, reasoning is bad, and incredibly slow in issuing opinions. And to preempt the inevitable ad hominem, Carney was way, way, way better, as were all of Pooler's ideological compatriots (Lohier, Calabresi, etc.).

As just one illustration, see Pooler's en banc opinion in Scott, which couldn't even get Katzmann or Lohier's vote, and which (if you actually read the opinion) wasn't even really joined by Leval or Carney either.

If your measure of a good judge is one who "calls out" the conservatives, I guess she's great, though. (By that standard Menashi is the best conservative judge on the court, which is also not something basically anybody who knows the court would agree with.)
About preempting the ad hominem, is the idea that Carney is also a woman and fairly liberal? Or does she have a similar reputation (despite being “way, way, way better” than Pooler)?

Curious what Carney’s rep is. I have heard great things about her, but that is third-hand. I know some of the people from my school who will be clerking for her, and they are super impressive — but so were the people I knew who clerked for Pooler, so…
Bumping this. I’ve heard that my school’s clerkship office has been pushing strong applicants (esp with a public interest bent) toward Carney for a while now, and they even told one of my friends that she has “sometimes” sent people to SCOTUS. AFAIK, though, it looks like she’s only sent one? But I am curious about how a clerkship with her is regarded and how competitive it is. I was just surprised that some of these applicants have Carney high on their list when they might be competitive for some of the other “higher profile” (and active) judges on 2 and elsewhere.
She's one of the better known and respected judges on CA2. She doesn't feed as much, but I'd say a clerkship with her is still something akin to Cabranes / Calabresi. And, again, nobody on the left is really going to feed much going forward. The problem on CA2 is that none of the liberal active judges aside from Lohier and now Nathan are particularly well known or respected, so it's hard not to see Carney as still one of the better and more competitive left-leaning clerkships on the circuit.

How she compares nationally? In the tier of all of the longer serving and prominent coastal Clinton circuit judges, I'd imagine. Thinking of folks like Sandra Lynch, etc.

Anonymous User
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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:02 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:59 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:37 pm

You don't seem persuadable on this issue, but ask the most liberal person you know who clerked on CA2 what Pooler's rep is. The answer will undoubtedly be "very bad." When I clerked on the court, she was universally considered the worst judge. Writing is bad, reasoning is bad, and incredibly slow in issuing opinions. And to preempt the inevitable ad hominem, Carney was way, way, way better, as were all of Pooler's ideological compatriots (Lohier, Calabresi, etc.).

As just one illustration, see Pooler's en banc opinion in Scott, which couldn't even get Katzmann or Lohier's vote, and which (if you actually read the opinion) wasn't even really joined by Leval or Carney either.

If your measure of a good judge is one who "calls out" the conservatives, I guess she's great, though. (By that standard Menashi is the best conservative judge on the court, which is also not something basically anybody who knows the court would agree with.)
About preempting the ad hominem, is the idea that Carney is also a woman and fairly liberal? Or does she have a similar reputation (despite being “way, way, way better” than Pooler)?

Curious what Carney’s rep is. I have heard great things about her, but that is third-hand. I know some of the people from my school who will be clerking for her, and they are super impressive — but so were the people I knew who clerked for Pooler, so…
Bumping this. I’ve heard that my school’s clerkship office has been pushing strong applicants (esp with a public interest bent) toward Carney for a while now, and they even told one of my friends that she has “sometimes” sent people to SCOTUS. AFAIK, though, it looks like she’s only sent one? But I am curious about how a clerkship with her is regarded and how competitive it is. I was just surprised that some of these applicants have Carney high on their list when they might be competitive for some of the other “higher profile” (and active) judges on 2 and elsewhere.
She's one of the better known and respected judges on CA2. She doesn't feed as much, but I'd say a clerkship with her is still something akin to Cabranes / Calabresi. And, again, nobody on the left is really going to feed much going forward. The problem on CA2 is that none of the liberal active judges aside from Lohier and now Nathan are particularly well known or respected, so it's hard not to see Carney as still one of the better and more competitive left-leaning clerkships on the circuit.

How she compares nationally? In the tier of all of the longer serving and prominent coastal Clinton circuit judges, I'd imagine. Thinking of folks like Sandra Lynch, etc.
I think the Lynch comp is apt though she’s likely a better boss than Lynch.

Cabranes/Calabresi still feed occasionally, so I think they’re a step up from Carney.

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Anonymous User
Posts: 428107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:02 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:59 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:37 pm

You don't seem persuadable on this issue, but ask the most liberal person you know who clerked on CA2 what Pooler's rep is. The answer will undoubtedly be "very bad." When I clerked on the court, she was universally considered the worst judge. Writing is bad, reasoning is bad, and incredibly slow in issuing opinions. And to preempt the inevitable ad hominem, Carney was way, way, way better, as were all of Pooler's ideological compatriots (Lohier, Calabresi, etc.).

As just one illustration, see Pooler's en banc opinion in Scott, which couldn't even get Katzmann or Lohier's vote, and which (if you actually read the opinion) wasn't even really joined by Leval or Carney either.

If your measure of a good judge is one who "calls out" the conservatives, I guess she's great, though. (By that standard Menashi is the best conservative judge on the court, which is also not something basically anybody who knows the court would agree with.)
About preempting the ad hominem, is the idea that Carney is also a woman and fairly liberal? Or does she have a similar reputation (despite being “way, way, way better” than Pooler)?

Curious what Carney’s rep is. I have heard great things about her, but that is third-hand. I know some of the people from my school who will be clerking for her, and they are super impressive — but so were the people I knew who clerked for Pooler, so…
Bumping this. I’ve heard that my school’s clerkship office has been pushing strong applicants (esp with a public interest bent) toward Carney for a while now, and they even told one of my friends that she has “sometimes” sent people to SCOTUS. AFAIK, though, it looks like she’s only sent one? But I am curious about how a clerkship with her is regarded and how competitive it is. I was just surprised that some of these applicants have Carney high on their list when they might be competitive for some of the other “higher profile” (and active) judges on 2 and elsewhere.
She's one of the better known and respected judges on CA2. She doesn't feed as much, but I'd say a clerkship with her is still something akin to Cabranes / Calabresi. And, again, nobody on the left is really going to feed much going forward. The problem on CA2 is that none of the liberal active judges aside from Lohier and now Nathan are particularly well known or respected, so it's hard not to see Carney as still one of the better and more competitive left-leaning clerkships on the circuit.

How she compares nationally? In the tier of all of the longer serving and prominent coastal Clinton circuit judges, I'd imagine. Thinking of folks like Sandra Lynch, etc.
The active/senior distinction on CA2 is irrelevant though because seniors keep seniority and the court almost never goes en banc, and Calabresi, Leval, Lynch, and Kearse were/are all very competitive. CA2 also didn’t have a big ideological divide until recent appointees, any liberal would be comfortable with e.g. Jacobs or Parker even though they’re GOP appointees.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:02 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:59 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:37 pm

You don't seem persuadable on this issue, but ask the most liberal person you know who clerked on CA2 what Pooler's rep is. The answer will undoubtedly be "very bad." When I clerked on the court, she was universally considered the worst judge. Writing is bad, reasoning is bad, and incredibly slow in issuing opinions. And to preempt the inevitable ad hominem, Carney was way, way, way better, as were all of Pooler's ideological compatriots (Lohier, Calabresi, etc.).

As just one illustration, see Pooler's en banc opinion in Scott, which couldn't even get Katzmann or Lohier's vote, and which (if you actually read the opinion) wasn't even really joined by Leval or Carney either.

If your measure of a good judge is one who "calls out" the conservatives, I guess she's great, though. (By that standard Menashi is the best conservative judge on the court, which is also not something basically anybody who knows the court would agree with.)
About preempting the ad hominem, is the idea that Carney is also a woman and fairly liberal? Or does she have a similar reputation (despite being “way, way, way better” than Pooler)?

Curious what Carney’s rep is. I have heard great things about her, but that is third-hand. I know some of the people from my school who will be clerking for her, and they are super impressive — but so were the people I knew who clerked for Pooler, so…
Bumping this. I’ve heard that my school’s clerkship office has been pushing strong applicants (esp with a public interest bent) toward Carney for a while now, and they even told one of my friends that she has “sometimes” sent people to SCOTUS. AFAIK, though, it looks like she’s only sent one? But I am curious about how a clerkship with her is regarded and how competitive it is. I was just surprised that some of these applicants have Carney high on their list when they might be competitive for some of the other “higher profile” (and active) judges on 2 and elsewhere.
She's one of the better known and respected judges on CA2. She doesn't feed as much, but I'd say a clerkship with her is still something akin to Cabranes / Calabresi. And, again, nobody on the left is really going to feed much going forward. The problem on CA2 is that none of the liberal active judges aside from Lohier and now Nathan are particularly well known or respected, so it's hard not to see Carney as still one of the better and more competitive left-leaning clerkships on the circuit.

How she compares nationally? In the tier of all of the longer serving and prominent coastal Clinton circuit judges, I'd imagine. Thinking of folks like Sandra Lynch, etc.
I think the Lynch comp is apt though she’s likely a better boss than Lynch.

Cabranes/Calabresi still feed occasionally, so I think they’re a step up from Carney.
Beyond circle jerking on here, hard to see how an occasional scotus hire really changes anything for Cabranes / Calabresi. The only reason “feeders” are generally thought to be more valuable clerkships for the long haul is because of (1) actual odds of getting to scotus, (2) their general stature if their feeding is the result of that, (3) general competitiveness of clerkship / co clerks. (1) is irrelevant here because your odds are not changed in this environment; left leaning clerks from any well respected judge have similar odds — low ones. (2) Calabresi is better known by a bit but all three are roughly similar in reputation. This is the only relevant distinction. (3) They’re all hiring the same people pretty much—mostly HYS top 1/3 qualified center-left academically minded people with excellent credentials but not gunning for scotus / at the very tip top of their class.

Lynch gets a bad rap on here but honestly she’s nice and an excellent judge. Carney can be difficult too from what I’ve heard.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:02 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:59 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:37 pm

You don't seem persuadable on this issue, but ask the most liberal person you know who clerked on CA2 what Pooler's rep is. The answer will undoubtedly be "very bad." When I clerked on the court, she was universally considered the worst judge. Writing is bad, reasoning is bad, and incredibly slow in issuing opinions. And to preempt the inevitable ad hominem, Carney was way, way, way better, as were all of Pooler's ideological compatriots (Lohier, Calabresi, etc.).

As just one illustration, see Pooler's en banc opinion in Scott, which couldn't even get Katzmann or Lohier's vote, and which (if you actually read the opinion) wasn't even really joined by Leval or Carney either.

If your measure of a good judge is one who "calls out" the conservatives, I guess she's great, though. (By that standard Menashi is the best conservative judge on the court, which is also not something basically anybody who knows the court would agree with.)
About preempting the ad hominem, is the idea that Carney is also a woman and fairly liberal? Or does she have a similar reputation (despite being “way, way, way better” than Pooler)?

Curious what Carney’s rep is. I have heard great things about her, but that is third-hand. I know some of the people from my school who will be clerking for her, and they are super impressive — but so were the people I knew who clerked for Pooler, so…
Bumping this. I’ve heard that my school’s clerkship office has been pushing strong applicants (esp with a public interest bent) toward Carney for a while now, and they even told one of my friends that she has “sometimes” sent people to SCOTUS. AFAIK, though, it looks like she’s only sent one? But I am curious about how a clerkship with her is regarded and how competitive it is. I was just surprised that some of these applicants have Carney high on their list when they might be competitive for some of the other “higher profile” (and active) judges on 2 and elsewhere.
She's one of the better known and respected judges on CA2. She doesn't feed as much, but I'd say a clerkship with her is still something akin to Cabranes / Calabresi. And, again, nobody on the left is really going to feed much going forward. The problem on CA2 is that none of the liberal active judges aside from Lohier and now Nathan are particularly well known or respected, so it's hard not to see Carney as still one of the better and more competitive left-leaning clerkships on the circuit.

How she compares nationally? In the tier of all of the longer serving and prominent coastal Clinton circuit judges, I'd imagine. Thinking of folks like Sandra Lynch, etc.
The active/senior distinction on CA2 is irrelevant though because seniors keep seniority and the court almost never goes en banc, and Calabresi, Leval, Lynch, and Kearse were/are all very competitive. CA2 also didn’t have a big ideological divide until recent appointees, any liberal would be comfortable with e.g. Jacobs or Parker even though they’re GOP appointees.
Agreed. Frankly that set of senior judges is probably more sought after still than the newer Biden noms and certainly has a much better rep. In terms of competitiveness for liberal applicants, Livingston is the most competitive if she’ll look at you, Lohier next, then some combo of Nathan + those mentioned seniors. The rest of the Biden CA2 judges trail from what I understand.

Anonymous User
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Re: Most liberal federal judges?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:33 pm
Lynch gets a bad rap on here but honestly she’s nice and an excellent judge. Carney can be difficult too from what I’ve heard.
Excellent judge, yes, one of the best in the northeast..."nice," I've heard enough people say "no" that I'll push back here. Lynch is one of a very small number of judges on my school's red flag list, and I've heard persistent rumors about her being extremely demanding and having thrown things at clerks. I'm sure many Lynch clerks have had good experiences, but that reputation is out there enough that it's hard to ignore.

While we're on the subject, she's historically been the swing vote on CA1 and is nowhere near one of the most liberal federal judges.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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