On-plan timing question Forum

[Anonymous User]

So like, the applications all get released to chambers around noon on June 13th . . . and then what happens?

Mainly - what sort of timelines should applicants be expecting. Do interviews start going out immediately or is it more of a trickle over the course of the next few months? What level of panic should set in if there are no bites in the first ~week or so?

If they are going out right away, is that mostly limited to s.ct. level elite candidates? What does the timeline look like for good but not summa at HLS/highest honors at Chi type applicants.

I know judges are very idiosyncratic and on some level this probably depends on individual judge's preferences but are there any broad trends that can guide expectations?

[Anonymous User]

Many judges hire in the first week, especially highly selective judges, many judges don’t. Some judges will start making calls immediately after they are allowed to, but you shouldn’t panic if your phone isn’t ringing the first day.

[Contango]

It is idiosyncratic, and some judges who adhere to the plan take their time making their hires. I think it's fair to generalize, however, that the judges who follow the plan, on average, tend to move relatively quickly in starting to extend interview invitations.

Does one need SCOTUS-level credentials to receiver a 12:01PM phone call on Tuesday? Absolutely not. Many (most?) judges who follow the plan move fairly quickly to interview and extend offers, but most of these judges simply aren't hiring the unicorn candidates you're talking about. Even with the tilt toward the early side in on-plan hiring, though, in many chambers it's on the order of weeks, not hours or days, before hiring is complete.

What if you hear nothing the first week? Your reaction to that should be a function of your expectations going in. Say, for example, that you are a reasonably competitive applicant for some federal clerkship. If you have applied broadly, i.e. dozens of apps, to many judges -- including a good number of judges who have hired clerks reasonably similar to you in profile (school/grades/other shiny gold stars, etc.) -- it would be disappointing to get zero traction with anyone the first week. By contrast, if you're competitive but have applied narrowly (perhaps you're significantly geographically constrained) then it might not shock you if your phone doesn't ring the first few days. Similarly, if you know from your clerkship office that your credentials make you a bit more of a "reach" candidate, you shouldn't be surprised if it takes a bit longer to make it to the top of some judge's pile.

No matter what happens, I would strongly recommend not panicking. The part of this often frustrating process that is within your control is now over -- you've earned the grades you're going to make, cleaned up your writing sample as much as you're going to be able to, and selected the best recommenders you could. Unless and until you receive an invitation to interview, all you can do is hope for the best. Best of luck next week!

[Anonymous User]

It is idiosyncratic, and some judges who adhere to the plan take their time making their hires. I think it's fair to generalize, however, that the judges who follow the plan, on average, tend to move relatively quickly in starting to extend interview invitations.

Does one need SCOTUS-level credentials to receiver a 12:01PM phone call on Tuesday? Absolutely not. Many (most?) judges who follow the plan move fairly quickly to interview and extend offers, but most of these judges simply aren't hiring the unicorn candidates you're talking about. Even with the tilt toward the early side in on-plan hiring, though, in many chambers it's on the order of weeks, not hours or days, before hiring is complete.

What if you hear nothing the first week? Your reaction to that should be a function of your expectations going in. Say, for example, that you are a reasonably competitive applicant for some federal clerkship. If you have applied broadly, i.e. dozens of apps, to many judges -- including a good number of judges who have hired clerks reasonably similar to you in profile (school/grades/other shiny gold stars, etc.) -- it would be disappointing to get zero traction with anyone the first week. By contrast, if you're competitive but have applied narrowly (perhaps you're significantly geographically constrained) then it might not shock you if your phone doesn't ring the first few days. Similarly, if you know from your clerkship office that your credentials make you a bit more of a "reach" candidate, you shouldn't be surprised if it takes a bit longer to make it to the top of some judge's pile.

No matter what happens, I would strongly recommend not panicking. The part of this often frustrating process that is within your control is now over -- you've earned the grades you're going to make, cleaned up your writing sample as much as you're going to be able to, and selected the best recommenders you could. Unless and until you receive an invitation to interview, all you can do is hope for the best. Best of luck next week!

This is absolutely incredible advice - thank you so much!

I'm just going to cut to my personal profile because I feel like that heavily informs what I should be expecting. I am ~top 15% at HYSC and applied broadly to circuits and pretty targetedly to districts. I don't know if I should be expecting early calls or not // don't know if I should broaden out with a second wave that targets districts more broadly if I don't hear anything quickly.

Is there a way to gauge the profiles of those who are being hired by judges in the first week or is that just a word of mouth between classmates sort of situation?

[Anonymous User]

So, it would be dumb and not necessary to clear my schedule from 12:00 PM to 2:00 PM on Tuesday? (i.e. skip the free summer associate lunch)

[Contango]

Is there a way to gauge the profiles of those who are being hired by judges in the first week or is that just a word of mouth between classmates sort of situation?

I feel like UT's clerkship office made information available when it knew that a specific judge had extended an interview invite to a UT student. I would imagine the clerkship offices at HYSC will have much better intel than UT (especially with respect to to circuit judges outside CA5 and district judges in the more competitive coastal districts). I don't know that any program is going to disclose who is getting specific interviews. I imagine -- though I have no specific knowledge -- that if you're not hearing anything you could at least get some color from the office to help guide your strategy. The more networked you are within your school the more information you'll get just by word-of-mouth, too. Finally, there's also always TLS. Bad info will often get called out forcefully pretty quickly, but you still have to take anything on an anonymous message board with a grain of salt.

I'm just going to cut to my personal profile because I feel like that heavily informs what I should be expecting. I am ~top 15% at HYSC and applied broadly to circuits and pretty targetedly to districts. I don't know if I should be expecting early calls or not // don't know if I should broaden out with a second wave that targets districts more broadly if I don't hear anything quickly.

I think your optimal strategy depends on what you're trying to achieve. If you really want a clerkship right out of school (assume you're applying for '23?) and would strongly prefer to have it locked down ASAP, then it might make sense to broaden out your search more quickly if you hear nothing in the first week or so. Again, I would hope that your clerkship office might be able to help get you some information to guide your understanding of what they're seeing. That would help you figure out -- assuming for argument's sake you hear nothing off the bat -- the risk of continuing to wait versus quickly broadening your search.

[Anonymous User]

At H, the clerkship office will update the list of clerks on the OCS website at the end of the week.

[namefromplace]

So, it would be dumb and not necessary to clear my schedule from 12:00 PM to 2:00 PM on Tuesday? (i.e. skip the free summer associate lunch)

Yes. Just spend the next month with your phone close by. If you do get a call, you can step out and answer it. The call would likely be a couple of minutes, tops (that was the case with my interview invites via call; some judges just email). Also, most judges will understand if you don't answer their call immediately. I have heard my share of "the interview invite went to my spam and I only saw it three days later" stories from clerks who were then hired by judges who see the mix-up as a funny anecdote. They understand that not everyone is phone accessible 24/7. Just call back unknown numbers and check your email frequently.

[Anonymous User]

"the interview invite went to my spam and I only saw it three days later"

This is me. Got a voicemail the next day while I was in class, fortunately.

Add *.uscourts.gov to your email whitelist!

[Anonymous User]

Is there a way to gauge the profiles of those who are being hired by judges in the first week or is that just a word of mouth between classmates sort of situation?

I feel like UT's clerkship office made information available when it knew that a specific judge had extended an interview invite to a UT student. I would imagine the clerkship offices at HYSC will have much better intel than UT (especially with respect to to circuit judges outside CA5 and district judges in the more competitive coastal districts). I don't know that any program is going to disclose who is getting specific interviews. I imagine -- though I have no specific knowledge -- that if you're not hearing anything you could at least get some color from the office to help guide your strategy. The more networked you are within your school the more information you'll get just by word-of-mouth, too. Finally, there's also always TLS. Bad info will often get called out forcefully pretty quickly, but you still have to take anything on an anonymous message board with a grain of salt.

I'm just going to cut to my personal profile because I feel like that heavily informs what I should be expecting. I am ~top 15% at HYSC and applied broadly to circuits and pretty targetedly to districts. I don't know if I should be expecting early calls or not // don't know if I should broaden out with a second wave that targets districts more broadly if I don't hear anything quickly.

I think your optimal strategy depends on what you're trying to achieve. If you really want a clerkship right out of school (assume you're applying for '23?) and would strongly prefer to have it locked down ASAP, then it might make sense to broaden out your search more quickly if you hear nothing in the first week or so. Again, I would hope that your clerkship office might be able to help get you some information to guide your understanding of what they're seeing. That would help you figure out -- assuming for argument's sake you hear nothing off the bat -- the risk of continuing to wait versus quickly broadening your search.

Thank you for the response!

I don't know what my schools infrastructure will look like throughout the process. They definitely have a form sheet that students can self report interviews too that populates but I am not sure what information will end up being shared/visible through that.

As for the second one - sadly my clerkship office is very swamped right now and it is basically impossible to get their attention, especially for something as unimportant as what I am asking right now! But yeah - nail on the head with 23. I am kinda torn because I do have a strong preference for what I have already applied to. I worry a little if I broaden out, I might get forced into a situation where I interview/accept something i am less interested in prematurely.

Apologies, I'm really not trying to say this with any ego or anything, I know clerkships are a shit show but the impressions our office has given me is that if I go broad on districts, I will almost certainly be able to get a clerkship and that is somewhat underpinning these concerns

[Anonymous User]

Is there a way to gauge the profiles of those who are being hired by judges in the first week or is that just a word of mouth between classmates sort of situation?

I feel like UT's clerkship office made information available when it knew that a specific judge had extended an interview invite to a UT student. I would imagine the clerkship offices at HYSC will have much better intel than UT (especially with respect to to circuit judges outside CA5 and district judges in the more competitive coastal districts). I don't know that any program is going to disclose who is getting specific interviews. I imagine -- though I have no specific knowledge -- that if you're not hearing anything you could at least get some color from the office to help guide your strategy. The more networked you are within your school the more information you'll get just by word-of-mouth, too. Finally, there's also always TLS. Bad info will often get called out forcefully pretty quickly, but you still have to take anything on an anonymous message board with a grain of salt.

I'm just going to cut to my personal profile because I feel like that heavily informs what I should be expecting. I am ~top 15% at HYSC and applied broadly to circuits and pretty targetedly to districts. I don't know if I should be expecting early calls or not // don't know if I should broaden out with a second wave that targets districts more broadly if I don't hear anything quickly.

I think your optimal strategy depends on what you're trying to achieve. If you really want a clerkship right out of school (assume you're applying for '23?) and would strongly prefer to have it locked down ASAP, then it might make sense to broaden out your search more quickly if you hear nothing in the first week or so. Again, I would hope that your clerkship office might be able to help get you some information to guide your understanding of what they're seeing. That would help you figure out -- assuming for argument's sake you hear nothing off the bat -- the risk of continuing to wait versus quickly broadening your search.

Thank you for the response!

I don't know what my schools infrastructure will look like throughout the process. They definitely have a form sheet that students can self report interviews too that populates but I am not sure what information will end up being shared/visible through that.

As for the second one - sadly my clerkship office is very swamped right now and it is basically impossible to get their attention, especially for something as unimportant as what I am asking right now! But yeah - nail on the head with 23. I am kinda torn because I do have a strong preference for what I have already applied to. I worry a little if I broaden out, I might get forced into a situation where I interview/accept something i am less interested in prematurely.

Apologies, I'm really not trying to say this with any ego or anything, I know clerkships are a shit show but the impressions our office has given me is that if I go broad on districts, I will almost certainly be able to get a clerkship and that is somewhat underpinning these concerns

If the C is Chicago, regardless of whether you’re at HYSC, your office will probably send a list of judges that have offered interviews. There’s not really any way around the situation you’ve described other than turning down interviews you know you absolutely wouldn’t want. You’re competitive everywhere, but not so competitive that you’re guaranteed an interview in the very competitive districts. It’s difficult to give more targeted advice because a lot will also depend on your recommenders, districts, etc.

[Anonymous User]

Is the timeline any different for post grads applying after a year or two of experience? I am a 2021 grad that has trickled in 2023-24 apps since March in districts within my general region. I'm guessing my apps will be thrown in the hopper with the rising 3Ls and I'll hear about any interviews when they would unless something made my application stick out to get an earlier interview.

[Anonymous User]

Is the timeline any different for post grads applying after a year or two of experience? I am a 2021 grad that has trickled in 2023-24 apps since March in districts within my general region. I'm guessing my apps will be thrown in the hopper with the rising 3Ls and I'll hear about any interviews when they would unless something made my application stick out to get an earlier interview.

I think your expectation is basically right.

[Anonymous User]

So conventional wisdom is that the 24-hour "reading period" is notoriously flouted, even for Plan judges, with regards to interview invites. But do we expect any judges to conduct actual *interviews* tomorrow night based on invites tomorrow afternoon?

[Anonymous User]

So conventional wisdom is that the 24-hour "reading period" is notoriously flouted, even for Plan judges, with regards to interview invites. But do we expect any judges to conduct actual *interviews* tomorrow night based on invites tomorrow afternoon?

There will be some for sure

[Anonymous User]

So conventional wisdom is that the 24-hour "reading period" is notoriously flouted, even for Plan judges, with regards to interview invites. But do we expect any judges to conduct actual *interviews* tomorrow night based on invites tomorrow afternoon?

There will be some for sure

I think it would be beneficial to separate between the pace at which the tippy-top feeders operate and that of most judges. Because I think it is VERY easy to get an unrealistic expectation and then feel crushed if your phone hasn't rung (or inbox dinged) by Tuesday night—even if you're still on track to get hired.

My recollection of going through this process a few years ago is that a tiny handful of applicants from my school (H) reported having like 5+ interviews lined up by Tuesday night, with Fletcher, Watford, Livingston, Srinivasan, Garland, et al. Essentially, the judges who are competing to hire likely future SCOTUS clerks are all racing to snap them up.

But most district court judges—and many circuit judges—operate at a slower pace. For reference, I got three interview invites and they were all in the second week. One (think SDNY/EDNY/EDPA) on the Tuesday a week after the plan opened and two that Friday (less flashy northeastern district, state supreme court in a desirable locale).

So, especially if people aren't pushing you toward feeders or "shiny" district courts, don't be spooked by a quiet Tuesday, much less Monday.

[Anonymous User]

Is the timeline any different for post grads applying after a year or two of experience? I am a 2021 grad that has trickled in 2023-24 apps since March in districts within my general region. I'm guessing my apps will be thrown in the hopper with the rising 3Ls and I'll hear about any interviews when they would unless something made my application stick out to get an earlier interview.

I think your expectation is basically right.

Sorry, just to confirm—so is it likely that alumni applicants won’t be hearing back this week (they’ll hear back later)? What’s the general timeline for when chambers will turn to these?

[Anonymous User]

My assumption is that 3L and alumni applicants are just in the pile with 2Ls so you’ll hear back or not on same scheudke