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[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

I'm sorry OP, but so much of this is specific to the judge that it is hard to give any advice. I hope you are able to get through this.

[Anonymous User]

Assuming the clerkship is only one year long, I think you should just suck it up a little bit with the long distance thing and the train issue. The clerkship will be over before you know it, and if you can’t take that train or can’t see your long distance gf for that weekend, it’s worth it to have the judge like you. So my advice is to just set your expectations that your top priority is the clerkship for that year and don’t worry about the train thing. I definitely wouldn’t come in with the attitude that the judge (and as a consequence, the other clerks) need to accommodate your long-distance relationship with their work flow. Your long distance gf may need to come to you more or you may need to just not see each other a ton for that year.

[Anonymous User]

I’m not really sure what kind of admin issues there could have been because in my experience there just wasn’t much admin stuff to deal with at all. Based on my own experience, that stuff was handled through HR and had nothing at all to do with what the experience in chambers was like. Obviously that may not apply to you, but it’s hard to say without knowing more about what kind of issues you’re talking about.

Re: long distance - does your judge currently know about your relationship? I was long distance during my clerkship and my judge knew from the interview and hired me knowing it was a factor. If that’s not the case with you, it might be worth having a conversation with them about it - now or when you start - to figure out how to approach it.

Because I have to confess, the idea of walking in and saying “I *have* to leave by 5:15 every other Friday” doesn’t come across well. You don’t have to; you want to. I totally totally get why you want to, and maybe it is “have to” as in that’s completely non-negotiable for you, but ooof, then maybe you needed to not take this job.

How difficult it will be to leave by 5:15 every other Friday is just something no one here can tell you. My chambers was very reasonable wrt work hours, on an ordinary day - the career clerk basically walked around turning out all the lights and kicking everyone out at 5 pm on the dot. But another judge in the same courthouse worked their clerks till 7 every night and on Saturdays. And even for my judge, during trial all bets were off and we worked until the work was done, including late on Fridays and very occasionally the weekend.

Trial is relatively predictable in that you won’t know what hours you’ll need to be there in a given day and you won’t know for certain exactly when it will finish, but you’ll know well ahead of time when it’s going to start and that you may not be able to commit to travel during that time. So you’d be unlikely to get stuck with train tickets you couldn’t use (you just wouldn’t buy them for that weekend).

Knowing nothing about your judge or how they run chambers, in a vacuum, if your work is excellent and timely and travel doesn’t interfere with that, that would be sufficient for a lot of judges. Just impossible to tell without more info.

As for just accepting that the judge may be annoyed, that may be the outcome, sure, and how well you deal with that will depend on you (and what being annoyed means for that judge). Not sure you will necessarily have much choice.

Again, I would raise this with the judge. “Doesn’t seem friendly to telework” may just mean “if my clerks are around I want them here.” They may be more sympathetic to something more structural like a LDR. If so, setting expectations ahead of time will make everyone happier. If not, at least you know that. And I think it makes much more sense to lay it out ahead of time and see what the judge’s take is than to spend a year playing it by ear every other Friday.

I think really the question is what you want to do if the judge flat out says, I can’t accommodate that, because they might. I think a nice judge would say, we’ll do our absolute best to work around that and I’ll make sure you can leave unless it’s an absolute emergency, and a reasonable judge would say, that will work most of the time but there may be days I need you to be here and I can’t guarantee I’ll be able to give you notice ahead of time. But there will be other judges. My question is, what’s your option other than leaving by 5:15 for that train? Is that actually the last train for the day and weekend, period? Can you just get back later or go on a Saturday some weeks? I get that may not be ideal, but especially given that you apparently weren’t going to be in an LDR when you got the clerkship and it’s a one-year position, I tend to agree with the person saying you’re going to need to suck it up. I do think it’s worth raising with the judge, but I also think you have to work around whatever they decide (and cheerfully, too, for the sake of harmony). Annoying them by making them have to consider all this is one thing, annoying them by literally taking off every other week regardless isn’t going to fly. (To be clear, it’s entirely possible that much or all of the time you’ll make the train without any accommodations, but there’s just no way to predict/guarantee that.)

[objctnyrhnr]

Took a one year fed clerkship a couple/few hours away from my relationship as well. Tried to make it work. It didn’t, but that probably wasn’t because of the distance (though it obviously didn’t help).

But here’s the thing: clerkship came first always for me. I worked 150% as much as the other clerks and it showed in my work. To this day, some years later, the judge and I chat every couple months and I see him whenever I’m in the area. He advises me and puts in good words for me. He’s my most valued mentor. I have no regrets looking back, and I can say with confidence that I prioritized appropriately.

Look: every year+ relationship feels like it’s the one. Maybe it is and maybe it isn’t. If it is, it’ll be fine—it’s just a year. If it isn’t, then the stress from the LDR will expose its cracks perhaps sooner than otherwise and everybody will be better off for it.

Frankly it seems like your priorities aren’t aligned appropriately and you sound a bit immature (not like crazy immature; within the bell curve of a kJD who’s graduating). At the end of the day, a fed clerkship, assuming you don’t screw it up, has lifetime value. Your judge should be on your reference list for every application for the next few decades. You learn invaluable skills that other juniors just don’t get. You should turn to your judge for career advice whenever making an important decision. S/he can make connections for you that nobody else can.

My recommendation: put it all into the clerkship. Compromise whatever else needs to be compromised. Don’t go in with a hard 5:15 stop on fridays. Feel it out for the first month or so (buy tickets late, have the other person come to you, leave on saturdays, etc.) before you start doing something like that.

[Anonymous User]

Brutal honesty here: I am concerned you are not mature enough for a clerkship.

[Anonymous User]

I’m the anon from above who was long distance during my clerkship. Should have mentioned that it was completely fine, an utter non-issue wrt my relationship (which admittedly was longstanding), so if your relationship is good, you’ll be fine.

I’ll admit that I’m not going to be so hardcore to say that your clerkship has to be your priority over *everything* else. That’s an entirely personal choice and everyone gets to decide their own priorities. I do still think that if you plan to continue with the clerkship, you will likely have to be flexible about travel to succeed and have the best experience.

[Anonymous User]

Finishing up two years of clerking (dist. ct. to COA), and I was also long distance for the first year (and we’re married now, so it worked out).

A few points. One, you might consider reaching out to former clerks to get a sense of what the hours are actually like, especially on Fridays. If Fridays routinely go past 5:15, you’ll have to be okay with not being able to travel that day and instead perhaps catching the first train on Saturday for a short weekend trip. Two, can your girlfriend travel to you/can she telework; that would make things considerably easier on you? Three, unfortunately, at least in my experience, good work product is in no way correlated to minimizing face-time expectations (there would likely be exceptions for childcare, but there are many judges who wouldn’t even be happy accommodating that). Four, to that point, you have to remember that for a lot of judges, you are entering their world and, as a consequence, are expected to abide by the confines they set; you can make your own slice of happiness within their expectations, but you shouldn’t go into clerking think you can muscle your way past what your judge expects w/r/t face-time or hours; a lot of judges think clerks should set aside pretty much all personal life things (except for family emergencies and the like) for a year of valuable experience. Your judge may or may not fall into these generalities, but it is best to assume that your judge won’t be amenable to you leaving early regularly just to visit your gf. Finally, in terms of relationship stuff specifically, I found it very important to set my partner’s expectations that I wouldn’t be able to take vacations, or leave early, and sometimes I needed to work late or on weekends—making sure he understood this AND was on board was super important to the health of our relationship.

Ultimately, you’ll be fine. It’s normal to have some pre-clerkship anxiety. Clerking can be very rewarding, but it’s also just a fundamentally weird job given that so much of your life is determined by one’s judge.

[Skool]

Brutal honesty here: I am concerned you are not mature enough for a clerkship.

A rude, unfounded take, posted anonymously. It’s immature to consider how to balance your personal and professional lives?

[Anonymous User]

Took a one year fed clerkship a couple/few hours away from my relationship as well. Tried to make it work. It didn’t, but that probably wasn’t because of the distance (though it obviously didn’t help).

But here’s the thing: clerkship came first always for me. I worked 150% as much as the other clerks and it showed in my work. To this day, some years later, the judge and I chat every couple months and I see him whenever I’m in the area. He advises me and puts in good words for me. He’s my most valued mentor. I have no regrets looking back, and I can say with confidence that I prioritized appropriately.

Look: every year+ relationship feels like it’s the one. Maybe it is and maybe it isn’t. If it is, it’ll be fine—it’s just a year. If it isn’t, then the stress from the LDR will expose its cracks perhaps sooner than otherwise and everybody will be better off for it.

Frankly it seems like your priorities aren’t aligned appropriately and you sound a bit immature (not like crazy immature; within the bell curve of a kJD who’s graduating). At the end of the day, a fed clerkship, assuming you don’t screw it up, has lifetime value. Your judge should be on your reference list for every application for the next few decades. You learn invaluable skills that other juniors just don’t get. You should turn to your judge for career advice whenever making an important decision. S/he can make connections for you that nobody else can.

My recommendation: put it all into the clerkship. Compromise whatever else needs to be compromised. Don’t go in with a hard 5:15 stop on fridays. Feel it out for the first month or so (buy tickets late, have the other person come to you, leave on saturdays, etc.) before you start doing something like that.

In a similar situation, and agree with everything in this post.

[Anonymous User]

I mean I should not have expected much from TLS, but in my experience the more mature view is that is not sustainable to endlessly completely give over your life to work. *Especially* when people will say that you have to put everything else to the side for law school, then for clerking, then for being at a firm… It never ends and at a certain point you are entitled to create boundaries around your time and what you value.

I also once thought it was acceptable to do anything for a year to get the gold star. That stopped pretty quickly after I turned 25 and met the people who had done that. They were not happy or pleasant.

[Anonymous User]

I mean I should not have expected much from TLS, but in my experience the more mature view is that is not sustainable to endlessly completely give over your life to work. *Especially* when people will say that you have to put everything else to the side for law school, then for clerking, then for being at a firm… It never ends and at a certain point you are entitled to create boundaries around your time and what you value.

I also once thought it was acceptable to do anything for a year to get the gold star. That stopped pretty quickly after I turned 25 and met the people who had done that. They were not happy or pleasant.

I am one of the original responders, and I also do not think you endlessly completely give over your life to work. I do not think it is a good idea to do that with longer-term professional commitments (ie your post-clerkship job). I do think, however, that one year clerkships are unique positions where, for better or worse, the judges typically expect a high level of commitment for that year and one year is a short enough time you can realistically have the bulk, if not all, your energy go to working. More so, the real value of the clerkship is having the judge like you and first impressions are important. I think the OP may regret later starting his one year clerkship with the expectation that he "has" to leave every other friday at 5:15 to travel to a different city to see his long distance girlfriend.

[Anonymous User]

Took a one year fed clerkship a couple/few hours away from my relationship as well. Tried to make it work. It didn’t, but that probably wasn’t because of the distance (though it obviously didn’t help).

But here’s the thing: clerkship came first always for me. I worked 150% as much as the other clerks and it showed in my work. To this day, some years later, the judge and I chat every couple months and I see him whenever I’m in the area. He advises me and puts in good words for me. He’s my most valued mentor. I have no regrets looking back, and I can say with confidence that I prioritized appropriately.

Look: every year+ relationship feels like it’s the one. Maybe it is and maybe it isn’t. If it is, it’ll be fine—it’s just a year. If it isn’t, then the stress from the LDR will expose its cracks perhaps sooner than otherwise and everybody will be better off for it.

“Look: every gold star feels like it’s the one. Just put all your effort and life into this one and then your career will be made. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. …”

Clerk year, given that it’s only a year and there is no upward mobility for most people (unless you want to be career clerk or move up to clerk again), can also be a good year to coast a bit between biglaw stints or law school than biglaw. Not saying you should impose a strict “I must leave at 5:15 every Friday” tule, but just trying to counterbalance this “you must dedicate your whole life to your judge.”

[Anonymous User]

I mean I should not have expected much from TLS, but in my experience the more mature view is that is not sustainable to endlessly completely give over your life to work. *Especially* when people will say that you have to put everything else to the side for law school, then for clerking, then for being at a firm… It never ends and at a certain point you are entitled to create boundaries around your time and what you value.

I mostly agree with you (I'm one of the long-distance clerks above). I think though that carving out your time/boundaries always has to be done within some constraints and the limits you can impose are going to differ based on your circumstances. It's one thing to choose not to follow certain paths, and it's another to choose a path that's inconsistent with your boundaries and assume that you can nonetheless make the boundaries work. I think that there are chambers where leaving by 5:15 every other week will work a lot of the time (I'd be surprised if it worked every single time in any chambers, though it's possible), but it's important for the OP to know that it may not.

And it may be that the OP will decide they're willing to take the consequences of leaving by 5:15 every other week and that the relationship with their SO is more important to them than their relationship with their judge. That's totally fair. I'm not going to say that the OP has to put in 150% more work than their co-clerks (I don't even get that - it's not a race, everyone's on the same team. Put in the work that's needed to do a good job on the work that needs to be done. Why are you measuring yourself against others? Unless they're all terrible slackers, pretty sure doing 150% of what they do is completely unnecessary) - if they're happy with being an adequate clerk, that is absolutely totally fine. If they're happy maintaining their boundaries and maybe being considered a mediocre clerk, that's their prerogative too.

But it is possible that at a certain point, depending on the judge, the travel thing could end up creating a relationship with the judge whereby the OP doesn't really get most of the benefits that a clerkship can bestow. They just need to decide what they want to risk.