Am I a Competitive Applicant? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Recent graduate from CCN—GPA is 3.7 (flat) with an even mix of black letter/seminars + 1 externship. On Law Review + published, did moot court. I am very on the fence about whether to apply for clerkships and haven't even asked any professors for recommendations. Is it still worth a shot to reach out to professors whose classes I did well in (A-/A)? I didn't really spend any time getting to know any of them. The clerkship office is singularly unhelpful, but that may also be because I didn't really express any interest in particular judges. I am geographically flexible, as my ties are all to some of the most competitive circuits (2/7/9/DC). I don't even know how to create a judge list and narrow down who I'd be willing to work for. I did unexpectedly well in Fed Courts which is the only reason I've started thinking that it might be worth applying, but at this point it feels a little too late to begin trying to cultivate relationships with professors.

[Anonymous User]

At this juncture, I think it’s unlikely that you would get good recommendations if you asked this late. My suggestion is that you spend the next year developing relationships—RA for Kellen Funk (, I see you CLS) and find other professors to TA or RA for. And then next Spring in like late April 2023, ask for recommendations. Also, hone in on a writing sample to use for next summer’s OSCAR window. Don’t half ass it this summer when you’re hardly ready—whole ass this process next year!

As for a judges list, you definitely need to spend some time doing research. Find people you actually want to work for.

[Anonymous User]

Apologies if this wasn't clear from earlier—I've already graduated, so no opportunities to TA/RA still. Should I just scrap the idea of applying entirely or maybe wait 1-2 years until I've cultivated relationships with partners at my firm and ask them for recommendations?

[Anonymous User]

Some clarifying questions. 1) are you open to circuit/district courts correct 2) are you at a biglaw firm and 3) if so are you a litigation associate? If the answer to all three is yes I think it is worth applying broadly. Your situation is not that uncommon.

[Anonymous User]

Yes to all your questions. I guess what I am asking is—would it be worth asking professors for recommendations? I took a couple classes with some well-known professors, but only got A-s in them, and did not really have relationships with them. Or would it be better to wait and try to get letters from partners?

[Anonymous User]

This is the commenter you replied to. Don't want to overstate my knowledge as I applied on plan and merely just think your position is not that uncommon (so if someone else applied in a similar way to OP that would be helpful). I really don't think it would be a bad idea to reach out to your Professor and ask for a LOR—this is part of their job after all. Then, apply to some judges (keep an eye out for judges that require 2+ years of work experience which would be good for you). If you don't get any hits, apply again this time with partner recs. 3.7 flat at CCN is probably top 20%. SDNY is probably out, but you might as well apply. Then send in apps to SDNY/EDNY/DDC/CDCA/NDILL. If you're willing to clerk in DNJ/EDVA/EDPA I'd also throw in apps there as well. If you're even more flexible than that, great—apply there.

tldr; I'd apply, not much to lose

[kolio6]

This is the first commenter. You could apply this year if you’d like, but you have to understand that you’re asking your recommenders to throw something together for you a week before the OSCAR platform opens.

To answer you directly, if I were in your position, I would apply next year. I don’t think the timing is quite right—if you had posted this maybe three weeks ago my answer would’ve been different. Develop a relationship with a partner, and keep in touch with your professors. Send them interesting articles you find. Or just ask professors directly about clerkships and about the benefits of leaving private practice to clerk. There’s a lot of moving parts to this process; not sure you want to rush it without any of the paperwork ready.

[Anonymous User]

Can't really see the benefit of getting rec letters from professors who only know that you wrote a good exam. Judges already know that you are a good writer and have a strong work ethic. The partner recs will be solid, and there are judges who specifically ask for employer letters. Plus given the timing, applying next year makes much more sense.

[Anonymous User]

Can't really see the benefit of getting rec letters from professors who only know that you wrote a good exam. Judges already know that you are a good writer and have a strong work ethic. The partner recs will be solid, and there are judges who specifically ask for employer letters. Plus given the timing, applying next year makes much more sense.

Umm... not apparent from many of the applications I've reviewed!

[Anonymous User]

Can't really see the benefit of getting rec letters from professors who only know that you wrote a good exam. Judges already know that you are a good writer and have a strong work ethic. The partner recs will be solid, and there are judges who specifically ask for employer letters. Plus given the timing, applying next year makes much more sense.

Umm... not apparent from many of the applications I've reviewed!

Even from a CCN 3.7 applicant? Well in any case, one would think the writing sample would basically give the judge the same info as a professor who only knows about the applicant's exam quality.

[Anonymous User]

you are going to get dogshit letters if you ask a bunch of professors you've barely interacted with to pull something together a week before the plan

or no letters. possible they just ignore your emails.

[Anonymous User]

Can't really see the benefit of getting rec letters from professors who only know that you wrote a good exam. Judges already know that you are a good writer and have a strong work ethic. The partner recs will be solid, and there are judges who specifically ask for employer letters. Plus given the timing, applying next year makes much more sense.

Umm... not apparent from many of the applications I've reviewed!

Even from a CCN 3.7 applicant? Well in any case, one would think the writing sample would basically give the judge the same info as a professor who only knows about the applicant's exam quality.

"Good writing" and "good exam writing" aren't necessarily the same thing.

That said, I agree that a more concrete, specific letter from a partner a year from now is probably the better option, assuming the OP makes a good impression on partners who would be good letter writers. It might make sense to get one letter from a "good exam" prof, though, especially if it's someone who's willing to meet with you to talk about your apps and what they can say about you. And you'd be giving them more time to work with than a week or whatever it would be if you decided to apply now.

[Anonymous User]

Can't really see the benefit of getting rec letters from professors who only know that you wrote a good exam. Judges already know that you are a good writer and have a strong work ethic. The partner recs will be solid, and there are judges who specifically ask for employer letters. Plus given the timing, applying next year makes much more sense.

Umm... not apparent from many of the applications I've reviewed!

Even from a CCN 3.7 applicant? Well in any case, one would think the writing sample would basically give the judge the same info as a professor who only knows about the applicant's exam quality.

HYS magnas routinely submit dogshit writing samples.

[Anonymous User]

Can't really see the benefit of getting rec letters from professors who only know that you wrote a good exam. Judges already know that you are a good writer and have a strong work ethic. The partner recs will be solid, and there are judges who specifically ask for employer letters. Plus given the timing, applying next year makes much more sense.

Umm... not apparent from many of the applications I've reviewed!

Even from a CCN 3.7 applicant? Well in any case, one would think the writing sample would basically give the judge the same info as a professor who only knows about the applicant's exam quality.

HYS magnas routinely submit dogshit writing samples.

Good to know lol. Great grades do not necessarily equate to great writing ability.

The above idea of actually meeting with a prof for a letter next year is an interesting one. I could see value to having a balance of professor and employer letters.

[j2ls100]

I am a similar candidate at a lower T14, though I have recs and am applying now. Keep in mind some judges will have openings throughout the year so it doesn't hurt to get materials ready now to start applying in like a month. And then when you have a good partner letter you can start using that if you still need it.

[Anonymous User]

This is OP. Yes—I wouldn't be applying now (1 week's notice is way too short for letters). But it sounds like the consensus is that it might be worth reaching out to professors now and start talking to them about the viability of clerkships to prepare for applications next year.

What is generally the best way to narrow down judges? Geography is obvious but I think my GPA likely shuts me out of the districts I have ties to. I am not particularly ideological either. How do most people go about this process? Apologies if these are easy questions, but I feel like I'm flying blind here.

[Anonymous User]

Some quick ideas (for districts--for COAs most people basically blanket the country)

1. Judges who hire regularly from your school (might be hard at CN, which seemingly have narrow networks)
2. Judges near where you have ties but in less competitive districts (so if you're a New Yorker, try DNJ, D Conn, D RI, etc.)
3. Judges who are alums of your school
4. Judges with careers similar to your career interests (so like people with public interest, or prosecution, or w/e background you have--harder if you plan to do generic BL indefinitely)
5. Judges you know clerks of
6. Judges you read good things about from us randoms on TLS

[Anonymous User]

Thank you—that's helpful to know. For the 3 letters, is it generally better to have 1 partner and 2 professors? Or vice versa? Are there any particular benefits to asking a judge who I took a couple of classes to write a letter?

[Anonymous User]

When you say Judge you took a couple classes from, are you referring to Sullivan? (I see you CLS).

I think it's better to have letters from the people who can write you the best letters, period, because of how A) highly they think of you, and B) how well they know you. Only after you work with a few partners will you know if your relationships with them are better than your current relationships with professors. If you're thinking of asking a prof, you can also test the waters w/r/t how good a letter they'll write you. Most professors will be honest about how glowing their recommendation will be (although they may make some hints about it instead of saying it directly).