SCOTUS Application Timing Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm an HYS grad with marginal SCOTUS odds (law review, very good but not perfect grades). I have a circuit clerkship that I'm doing now with a judge who has never had a clerk go on to clerk for the supreme court but who is relatively young, and an upcoming district court clerkship with a handful of clerks they have had go on to clerk for the supreme court.

When do you apply? Is it better to apply soon (not even sure exactly when you are supposed to apply), and try again next year if I don't get it? Or better to wait and try all at once next year with a full year with the circuit judge and some time with the district judge as well?

[Anonymous User]

OP - sorry, mods please delete this duplicate.

[Anonymous User]

I know the OCS/clerkship folks at at least 2 of these schools are VERY plugged in, as are at least a good number of the professors. That's going to be a good (and likely better) source of info even of this logistical kind for you. If you're realistically in the running for a SCOTUS clerkship, you should be in contact with them.

[Anonymous User]

I am in a similarly competitive applicant, but my clerkship office doesn't have a clue about SCOTUS stuff. Any advice on when to apply/prepare applying? I know Kav hires early, so should I be applying as a 3L? But I thought we were supposed to apply to all the justices. I am a bit confused here

[Anonymous User]

If either of your judges thinks you are a competitive applicant, which based on your description probably means the best clerk they have ever had or close, they will get the information and let you know. Without the significant backing of one or both of them, you will not have much of a chance anyway.

[Anonymous User]

I know the OCS/clerkship folks at at least 2 of these schools are VERY plugged in, as are at least a good number of the professors. That's going to be a good (and likely better) source of info even of this logistical kind for you. If you're realistically in the running for a SCOTUS clerkship, you should be in contact with them.

Seconding this advice. I know the H clerkship office is helpful on timeline stuff, and I can't imagine it's not the same at Y and S.

[Anonymous User]

I know the OCS/clerkship folks at at least 2 of these schools are VERY plugged in, as are at least a good number of the professors. That's going to be a good (and likely better) source of info even of this logistical kind for you. If you're realistically in the running for a SCOTUS clerkship, you should be in contact with them.

Seconding this advice. I know the H clerkship office is helpful on timeline stuff, and I can't imagine it's not the same at Y and S.

[Anonymous User]

I'm also curious about the OP's question and, I have to say, in my experience, the clerkship office at my HYS is not particularly helpful on these kinds of questions. It's not really their fault, just because it can vary a lot when individual justices choose to hire. And it's not like people at the clerkship office are on the phone with the justices. Some profs are definitely more plugged in, but I think even that varies a fair amount year to year and justice to justice.

Also, the idea that your judge will necessarily give you information if you're competitive is, I think, just untrue for many judges. For whatever reason, some judges really like to play "the game" of placing clerks at SCOTUS. But, in my experience, others don't. They'll help if you ask, but they certainly aren't going to think about it at all unless you ask. They are busy, after all, and it makes sense that they aren't going to spend their time proactively strategizing about how to get you a SCOTUS clerkship. And even if they've sent clerks before and you do ask, I think many judges would not know the answer to these kinds of nuts and bolts questions. In other words, most judges would make a call if you ask them to, but it's up to you to figure out when to apply and when it makes sense for them to call.

All of which is to say: I think it's totally reasonable to ask TLS this kind of question. Now, maybe no one on TLS knows the answer. But I'm sure many of us would appreciate any insight, and I hope that anyone who does have useful insight wouldn't choose not to share because of an assumption that everyone can get the info some other way.

[Anonymous User]

I'm also curious about the OP's question and, I have to say, in my experience, the clerkship office at my HYS is not particularly helpful on these kinds of questions. It's not really their fault, just because it can vary a lot when individual justices choose to hire. And it's not like people at the clerkship office are on the phone with the justices. Some profs are definitely more plugged in, but I think even that varies a fair amount year to year and justice to justice.

Also, the idea that your judge will necessarily give you information if you're competitive is, I think, just untrue for many judges. For whatever reason, some judges really like to play "the game" of placing clerks at SCOTUS. But, in my experience, others don't. They'll help if you ask, but they certainly aren't going to think about it at all unless you ask. They are busy, after all, and it makes sense that they aren't going to spend their time proactively strategizing about how to get you a SCOTUS clerkship. And even if they've sent clerks before and you do ask, I think many judges would not know the answer to these kinds of nuts and bolts questions. In other words, most judges would make a call if you ask them to, but it's up to you to figure out when to apply and when it makes sense for them to call.

All of which is to say: I think it's totally reasonable to ask TLS this kind of question. Now, maybe no one on TLS knows the answer. But I'm sure many of us would appreciate any insight, and I hope that anyone who does have useful insight wouldn't choose not to share because of an assumption that everyone can get the info some other way.

I know a few SCOTUS clerks, and without breaching confidences, it really is one of those deals where if you are competitive, you'll know how it works or someone will tell you, and if you have to ask, you probably aren't. Which isn't fair! But there are a wealth of qualified applicants, and SCOTUS (aside from Thomas) isn't inclined to try very hard to find diamonds in the rough.

Judges actively promoting and pushing their clerks to SCOTUS matters a lot (maybe a bit less now that Kavanaugh has started hiring 3Ls, but generally speaking). So if they don't know or aren't interested, or aren't well connected with the Justices, a professor/clerkship office is going to have to take that role, or maybe you have to be the Attorney General's daughter. And I only mention her to drum home the point that no part of the process is fair, or designed to be. It's a black box, where the well-connected have a huge informational advantage, because that is the way the Justices want it to be. It's efficient, they generally get high-quality clerks out of it, and they make their friends happy.

[Anonymous User]

I'm also curious about the OP's question and, I have to say, in my experience, the clerkship office at my HYS is not particularly helpful on these kinds of questions. It's not really their fault, just because it can vary a lot when individual justices choose to hire. And it's not like people at the clerkship office are on the phone with the justices. Some profs are definitely more plugged in, but I think even that varies a fair amount year to year and justice to justice.

Also, the idea that your judge will necessarily give you information if you're competitive is, I think, just untrue for many judges. For whatever reason, some judges really like to play "the game" of placing clerks at SCOTUS. But, in my experience, others don't. They'll help if you ask, but they certainly aren't going to think about it at all unless you ask. They are busy, after all, and it makes sense that they aren't going to spend their time proactively strategizing about how to get you a SCOTUS clerkship. And even if they've sent clerks before and you do ask, I think many judges would not know the answer to these kinds of nuts and bolts questions. In other words, most judges would make a call if you ask them to, but it's up to you to figure out when to apply and when it makes sense for them to call.

All of which is to say: I think it's totally reasonable to ask TLS this kind of question. Now, maybe no one on TLS knows the answer. But I'm sure many of us would appreciate any insight, and I hope that anyone who does have useful insight wouldn't choose not to share because of an assumption that everyone can get the info some other way.

I know a few SCOTUS clerks, and without breaching confidences, it really is one of those deals where if you are competitive, you'll know how it works or someone will tell you, and if you have to ask, you probably aren't. Which isn't fair! But there are a wealth of qualified applicants, and SCOTUS (aside from Thomas) isn't inclined to try very hard to find diamonds in the rough.

Judges actively promoting and pushing their clerks to SCOTUS matters a lot (maybe a bit less now that Kavanaugh has started hiring 3Ls, but generally speaking). So if they don't know or aren't interested, or aren't well connected with the Justices, a professor/clerkship office is going to have to take that role, or maybe you have to be the Attorney General's daughter. And I only mention her to drum home the point that no part of the process is fair, or designed to be. It's a black box, where the well-connected have a huge informational advantage, because that is the way the Justices want it to be. It's efficient, they generally get high-quality clerks out of it, and they make their friends happy.

If one is competitive (top grades, top school, major feeder lined up), should they apply to Kav when they are a 3L? I thought that you had to apply to all the justices all at once. This whole process is so opaque.

[Anonymous User]

If one is competitive (top grades, top school, major feeder lined up), should they apply to Kav when they are a 3L? I thought that you had to apply to all the justices all at once. This whole process is so opaque.

Again, if you have to ask, you probably aren't competitive.

Unrelated, but I think the whole applying to all the justices thing is very overblown, the only Justice who ever claimed to care (at least that I know of) was O'Connor. That being said, the marginal cost of sending 10 applications instead of just 3 and changing the titles on the cover letter is so minimal there is no real reason not to. And I doubt most of the T-14 schools would even sign off on your applications unless you sent them to all the Justices.

[Anonymous User]

FYI so it's not seen as a conservative-only thing, Kagan hired a couple HLS 3L's too this past cycle for out years. Both sterling credentials (both Sri and doing Moss / Boasberg, respectively), and I'm no FedSoc defender, but don't want to make it seem like anything nefarious or that conservatives necessarily have an inside track that isn't also available to the best libs.

[Anonymous User]

When I was at HLS I knew 2 people hired by left- and left-leaning SCOTUS justices and who were at the time still fall-semester 3Ls. Neither was conservative, both very liberal. So this definitely isn't a liberal/conservative thing, both were just insanely well credentials (one is now at OLC and the other is in Big Law; both were magna, HLR, had feeder clerkships lined up, etc etc.).