Odd Interview Question? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi all. I had an interview on Saturday with a federal magistrate judge for a clerkship beginning next fall (D. Mass.). She asked me not to accept any clerkship offers without first reporting to her because she really liked me and didn't want to lose the opportunity to hire me. Is this normal? I didn't understand b/c if she liked me so much, why not just hire me then? I told her that I plan on accepting the first offer I get, but she was my first choice. Should I have just honored her request? Will she ding me for this?

[nixy]

Yes, I’ve heard of a number of judges doing this. Yes, it would make sense that she should just make you an offer now, but she may have a policy that she conducts all scheduled interviews before making anyone an offer, and you weren’t the last interview. You probably should have agreed if she actually is your first choice, but no idea if she’ll ding you for it.

[Anonymous User]

Yes, I’ve heard of a number of judges doing this. Yes, it would make sense that she should just make you an offer now, but she may have a policy that she conducts all scheduled interviews before making anyone an offer, and you weren’t the last interview. You probably should have agreed if she actually is your first choice, but no idea if she’ll ding you for it.

Thanks. At first I was so happy with the interview, but then I started to think I should’ve just said yes and that I killed a really good opportunity.

[Anonymous User]

Pretty normal question. I got it when I interviewed. I can't imagine the judge will ding you for the honest response.

[Anonymous User]

Pretty normal question. I got it when I interviewed. I can't imagine the judge will ding you for the honest response.

Since it’s normal, do you think it’s asked to everyone? I was thinking she asked me because she was planning on offering me.

[Anonymous User]

Pretty normal question. I got it when I interviewed. I can't imagine the judge will ding you for the honest response.

Since it’s normal, do you think it’s asked to everyone? I was thinking she asked me because she was planning on offering me.

I can only answer for myself, but I got the impression that my judge was pretty set on hiring me and just wanted to chat with his clerks and my professors one more time. That being said, there is a chance the judge tells this to everyone, but that would be pointless if the judge was not still interested in the candidate.

[Anonymous User]

I don’t think a judge would say this about someone they definitely *didn’t* want to hire. I do know someone who got told this, got another offer, called the first judge, and got told to take the other offer. But I also actually know judges who would say that out of genuine belief that the other offer would be better for that applicant. I actually got told after an interview that (basically) the judge wanted to hire me but wanted to let me have a shot with other, “better” judges, so if I didn’t get an offer I liked better by date x, call them, but they’d have to make a decision to hire someone by that point. So judges have different approaches to all this kind of thing.

I don’t think your answer was *bad,* especially given the expectation that people take the first offer given them, and if the judge is reasonable they won’t hold it against you. It’s just hard to know how a given judge would react.

[Anonymous User]

I think this is a totally normal question and your response was fine but also doesn't make a whole lot of sense. A lot of judges don't make offers until they have interviewed all candidates before making offers. There could be a lot of reasons for this, such as: 1) wanting to hire all clerks at the same time; 2) having already scheduled interviews and not wanting to cancel them out of courtesy/the possibility the candidate would be stellar; 3) wanting to have a better sense of who your co-clerks will be and that you will get along/cover the bases they need (for example, some judges want to always have one clerk who has clerked previously but don't care if all their clerks have that qualification); 4) they want to consult with their clerks/JA/your recommenders.

I don't think your answer would affect your chances, but it also doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you get an offer from another judge before this judge, that judge will surely let you have at least 24 hours to think things over. In that time, you could contact the judge you interviewed with first who would then decide on the spot. If this judge really was your first choice, the only reason you would accept another offer on the spot before the first judge gets back to you is out of some kind of courtesy for first offers, which isn't really a thing. So I guess I could see your answer to that question making it seem as though the judge wasn't actually your first choice and that you were being dishonest in saying that she was. But don't worry about it.

[nixy]

Actually there is a long-standing tradition of judges making offers on the spot and expecting an answer (really, an acceptance) on the spot, and of CSOs telling applicants that they MUST accept the first offer they get, on the spot, or they will be doomed for all time, so I get where the OP is coming from. From that perspective, their answer made sense. I don’t think that tradition is nearly as widespread as it used to be, and think that most judges don’t expect/require an answer on the spot any more, especially when not hiring on the Plan timeline (one reason for the tradition was that if you as a judge couldn’t interview/hire someone until day x and every other judge was interviewing/hiring at the same time, you offered the first candidate you liked and wanted an answer right away so you wouldn’t lose out on the best candidates). But CSOs continue to repeat this as a requirement.

Tl;dr - historically with a lot of judges, courtesy for first offers was exactly how it worked.

(I don’t think the OP’s answer was necessary because this judge was already signaling that they don’t follow that tradition, but it wasn’t bad/weird, given that tradition exists. The only potential bad outcomes would be 1) an unreasonable judge who doesn’t like to be told no deciding they don’t like you anymore, but you probably don’t want to work for such a judge, and 2) the judge not being ready to make an offer for a little while and deciding that you may have received another offer by then so they’ll just go with another candidate instead. That would very much depend on how much they liked the OP and how good other candidates were though.)

[Anonymous User]

Pretty normal question. I got it when I interviewed. I can't imagine the judge will ding you for the honest response.

Since it’s normal, do you think it’s asked to everyone? I was thinking she asked me because she was planning on offering me.

Fwiw, my judge asked everyone to let her know of any application updates. Also, if this judge is your top choice, you should let her know if/when you interview with other judges. Hopefully then you can secure an offer with Judge 1 before interviewing with Judge 2.

[Anonymous User]

I think there are judges who say some version of this (keep me updated on your applications), but I don’t think they’d say directly that they really liked you and didn’t want to miss the chance to hire you if those things were untrue. So not a guarantee of an offer, but I’d say a sign you’re at the very least still in the running.

[Anonymous User]

I don’t think a judge would say this about someone they definitely *didn’t* want to hire. I do know someone who got told this, got another offer, called the first judge, and got told to take the other offer. But I also actually know judges who would say that out of genuine belief that the other offer would be better for that applicant. I actually got told after an interview that (basically) the judge wanted to hire me but wanted to let me have a shot with other, “better” judges, so if I didn’t get an offer I liked better by date x, call them, but they’d have to make a decision to hire someone by that point. So judges have different approaches to all this kind of thing.

I don’t think your answer was *bad,* especially given the expectation that people take the first offer given them, and if the judge is reasonable they won’t hold it against you. It’s just hard to know how a given judge would react.

I had two interviews on the same day with two judges on the same court. I got the offer on the spot from the first one but she/he said go talk to the other judge and then pick the best fit for me if I were so fortunate to get two offers.

It's a little bit of a different situation but the judge might like you without locking you in yet for some (often hard to discern) reason.

[Anonymous User]

Agree, not the end of the world, everyone puts their foot in their mouth sometimes, but this really didn’t make sense. The norm to accept the first offer no longer exists and you will hurt your interests by following it. It was also a bad norm that prioritized judges’ egos over clerks’ life plans.

[Anonymous User]

Agree, not the end of the world, everyone puts their foot in their mouth sometimes, but this really didn’t make sense. The norm to accept the first offer no longer exists and you will hurt your interests by following it. It was also a bad norm that prioritized judges’ egos over clerks’ life plans.

This might be a stupid question, but should I e-mail and apologize? I just am stressing so much about this and really hope to find out soon.

[nixy]

Agree, not the end of the world, everyone puts their foot in their mouth sometimes, but this really didn’t make sense. The norm to accept the first offer no longer exists and you will hurt your interests by following it. It was also a bad norm that prioritized judges’ egos over clerks’ life plans.

I don’t think the norm is entirely gone and I think CSOs still preach it. I don’t think applicants *should* follow it and I don’t disagree entirely about it being a bad norm (I think it used to be an arms race kind of thing where judges in some courthouses at least felt they had do this if everyone else in their courthouse was, so I don’t think it was ego for *all* judges, though it obviously was for some), but I think it’s overly optimistic to say it’s gone entirely.

[nixy]

I don’t think there’s a real way to apologize without it sounding weird. I think the best thing to do would be to wait and see if you get another offer and if you do (and assuming that judge doesn’t expect an offer on the spot), call up this judge and let them know and just explain that the second judge gave you time to decide and you rethought because the first judge actually is your first choice (something along those lines). If you don’t get an offer from someone else, all of this is completely moot anyway.

[Anonymous User]

You guys are needlessly freaking out OP. Even if you don't have to follow the "accept on the spot" norm, CS folk (and more importantly, likely the judge) still think you do. Telling a judge "I'd like your offer to be first" is perfectly fine. The judge will respect you for following the (outdated) norm. There's nothing to apologize for.

[nixy]

You guys are needlessly freaking out OP. Even if you don't have to follow the "accept on the spot" norm, CS folk (and more importantly, likely the judge) still think you do. Telling a judge "I'd like your offer to be first" is perfectly fine. The judge will respect you for following the (outdated) norm. There's nothing to apologize for.

You're right that the OP shouldn't freak out there's nothing to apologize for (and by saying there's no way to apologize without being weird I didn't mean to suggest the OP has reason to apologize, only that if they wanted to there isn't a great way to do it, but I get that I didn't make that clear). But the very fact that the judge said "tell me before you accept another offer" and not "tell me if you get another interview" means she herself doesn't follow the "accept on the spot" norm. But yes, she'll doubtless realize why the OP said what they said.

[Anonymous User]

You guys are needlessly freaking out OP. Even if you don't have to follow the "accept on the spot" norm, CS folk (and more importantly, likely the judge) still think you do. Telling a judge "I'd like your offer to be first" is perfectly fine. The judge will respect you for following the (outdated) norm. There's nothing to apologize for.

The Plan explicitly bans the accept on the spot practice. No competent clerkship office will tell you to follow it. (Obviously not everyone has the luxury of going to Chicago or UVA.) Not criticizing OP, more for future applicants.

And yeah don't apologize, that's weird and will draw attention to it. The judge will understand why you said it and it's not insulting or anything.

[nixy]

You guys are needlessly freaking out OP. Even if you don't have to follow the "accept on the spot" norm, CS folk (and more importantly, likely the judge) still think you do. Telling a judge "I'd like your offer to be first" is perfectly fine. The judge will respect you for following the (outdated) norm. There's nothing to apologize for.

The Plan explicitly bans the accept on the spot practice. No competent clerkship office will tell you to follow it. (Obviously not everyone has the luxury of going to Chicago or UVA.) Not criticizing OP, more for future applicants.

And yeah don't apologize, that's weird and will draw attention to it. The judge will understand why you said it and it's not insulting or anything.

There are still plenty of off-plan judges, though.

[Anonymous User]

You guys are needlessly freaking out OP. Even if you don't have to follow the "accept on the spot" norm, CS folk (and more importantly, likely the judge) still think you do. Telling a judge "I'd like your offer to be first" is perfectly fine. The judge will respect you for following the (outdated) norm. There's nothing to apologize for.

The Plan explicitly bans the accept on the spot practice. No competent clerkship office will tell you to follow it. (Obviously not everyone has the luxury of going to Chicago or UVA.) Not criticizing OP, more for future applicants.

And yeah don't apologize, that's weird and will draw attention to it. The judge will understand why you said it and it's not insulting or anything.

There are still plenty of off-plan judges, though.

I don't think many off-plan judges do this either. I know a decent chunk will only give you a few days, but I don't know too many judges who expect an answer on the spot.

[nixy]

Yeah, I agree that lots will give you a few days, definitely more than won’t, it’s just hard to rule out the possibility unless you have inside info.

[Anonymous User]

op here. so what are the odds i get dinged, not even considering the answer i gave? was this supposed to be a wink wink nod nod? also, i was given a time frame in weeks, how often do those hold up? thanks all!!

[Anonymous User]

You guys are needlessly freaking out OP. Even if you don't have to follow the "accept on the spot" norm, CS folk (and more importantly, likely the judge) still think you do. Telling a judge "I'd like your offer to be first" is perfectly fine. The judge will respect you for following the (outdated) norm. There's nothing to apologize for.

The Plan explicitly bans the accept on the spot practice. No competent clerkship office will tell you to follow it. (Obviously not everyone has the luxury of going to Chicago or UVA.) Not criticizing OP, more for future applicants.

And yeah don't apologize, that's weird and will draw attention to it. The judge will understand why you said it and it's not insulting or anything.

There are still plenty of off-plan judges, though.

I don't think many off-plan judges do this either. I know a decent chunk will only give you a few days, but I don't know too many judges who expect an answer on the spot.

Do you know any judges who expect an answer on the spot still? If a judge says no to a simple request like "Can you give me a day to talk this over with my family/think about," then they don't sound like the kind of judge that would be good to clerk for.

OP, don't worry about it. Yes, your answer was a bit odd but not in a way that would move the needle on your candidacy. Don't send an apology and just try not to think about it. I got my D. Ct. clerkship after three weeks of being sure I had bombed the interview. It's out of your hands; worrying won't help you, and your worrying is likely not an accurate representation of how you really did.

[nixy]

op here. so what are the odds i get dinged, not even considering the answer i gave? was this supposed to be a wink wink nod nod? also, i was given a time frame in weeks, how often do those hold up? thanks all!!

No way to know your odds, since it's unknown how many other people the judge was interviewing, but you have a good shot. It sounds like it went well and your application was clearly competitive. But like others have said, there's no point worrying about it now, since it's out of your hands.

Also, no way to know how well the timeline will hold up. Some judges will be scrupulous about adhering to the timeline, others won't, and it depends on what else they have going on/come up during the process.

(TBF, about asking for an answer on the spot: most judges who were wedded to this were also wedded to the Plan, and the current Plan forbids them from doing this, so it's true that most judges probably don't at this point, AND I completely agree candidates should always feel able to ask for time to think it over even if the judge doesn't volunteer that. My point was mostly that while I think the OP could have said yes to the judge' request, it's not weird or nonsensical that they still thought they needed to accept the first judge that offered given the history of judges requiring that. It might not have been correct, but it's not irrational.)