Clerkship App Post-Mortem Forum

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Re: Clerkship App Post-Mortem

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:12 pm

Pardon my idiocy, but I am just a 2L and I feel like I am missing something. This guy is from Stanford and is just outside the top 10%. Isn't that incredibly competitive for all positions minus the major feeders? Or maybe I have a naive view on how competitive clerkship positions really are.
As someone who recently got off a (competitive but non-feeder) CA9 clerkship, top 10% at Stanford makes a person competitive in our chambers in that we would certainly pull the application from the pile and look it over, but we only interviewed like eight people for the four slots we filled (and one of those slots was reserved for a non-HYS school the judge has a connection with and always hires from, which I think is common in a lot of chambers to one degree or another). There were plenty of top 10% HYS people -- and top people at other T-14s -- we did not end up interviewing because we didn't like the writing sample/the recommendations were just okay/they didn't have the other "it" factors my judge tended to like (journal or moot court, PI, a "why X city" and "why this judge" that was more persuasive than "because CA9 is prestigious," etc.).

Unlike the other posters here, the note writing sample would've gone over fine in my chambers if it is good. But the heavy transactional focus definitely would've raised some eyebrows because it would be unclear what they thought they were going to get out of a clerkship in our chambers.

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Re: Clerkship App Post-Mortem

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:07 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:06 pm
getthisbread wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:07 pm
Y/S rising 3L. LR (though not e-board), published, 75-80% Hs (including a couple of prizes). Worked for a few years between undergrad and law school in an unrelated field. Not FedSoc but not especially liberal and not opposed to clerking for a conservative. More interested in corporate than litigation but hoped for a clerkship in a bankruptcy/securities/antitrust-heavy court (ideally SDNY/2d Cir/9th Cir) to build up my credentials for a possible switch to academia. Recommenders don’t have personal ties to the courts I’m interested in but know me very well. I’m confident that their recommendations were solid.

Applied fairly broadly within SDNY and 2d Cir. (~50 apps) and sent a handful of apps to EDNY and 9th Cir. Received one interview on EDNY but didn’t wind up getting the position. Radio silence from the rest.

Obviously, I was rather ambitious with the courts that I targeted. However, I hadn’t anticipated being all but shut out as I have been. I’m headed to a V5 firm to do transactional work next year, so not getting a clerkship altogether wouldn’t be the end of the world for me. However, I’d certainly enjoy the experience and thought that my stats put me in the running.

I didn’t overtly state in my cover letters that I’m planning to do transactional work, and my resume contains enough litigation-esque experience to make me look agnostic (or so I thought). Any idea what might’ve gone wrong? Anything I can do to boost my odds next cycle? Or should I get over my dreams of seeing the inside of a court for a year and just dive into transactional work?
Former S COA clerk here.

Others are right that you just didn’t cast a wide enough net. No one should only be applying to CA2 and CA9. Judges only get 4 clerks a year. The only way you can be so selective is if you were a Kirkland Ellis Scholar and have Pam Karlan going to bat for you.

Apply widely and you’ll get something.

Also, don’t bother applying to most conservative judges. You will likely get weeded out for not being conservative. There are moderates like Eric Miller on CA9 that don’t really care as much about your judicial philosophy, but for the most part it will be a dealbreaker. Talk to people at the fed soc chapter and ask them about which Republican appointees are worth applying to if you’re not a conservative.
Another former Stanford COA clerk: The NYC clerkships are an unusually tough nut to crack from Stanford in a way that is almost disproportionate to their actual selectivity. Many of the more selective judges have particular ties to Columbia/NYU and well-established links to H/Y professors. Not a ton of SLS professors have clerked for CA2 judges who are still on the bench, and I think many of the professors who are landing their students fancy COA interview with calls (and every NYC CA2 judge is a fancy COA interview) are usually doing so to CA9/CADC/specific fedsoc/PI judges elsewhere. Similarly, we had very few people land SDNY/EDNY clerkships out of law school.

The good news is that 1) your grades are still great, and you'll probably have plenty of options widening your net; and 2) at least on the litigation side, SDNY/EDNY judges hire a lot of people out of V5s only after they've graduated and gotten some firm time in - that may be trickier for you as a corporate person, but it might also be an avenue that's open.

Yet another Stanford clerk. I cosign this post. I also cosign the post saying you shouldn't avoid conservative judges. Most don't care if you're in FedSoc or not, and some will be happy to get an application from a liberal with good grades. Menashi may be more politically-minded, but he's also a fellow Stanford alumni so who knows.

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Re: Clerkship App Post-Mortem

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:05 pm

Concur that only Menashi doesn’t hire liberals on CA2. I personally know liberal Park, Sullivan, and Raggi clerks who are the others you might suspect—compared to like the CA5 or CADC Trump appointees the CA2 ones aren’t that ideological. Broadly many Fed Soc judges are open to hiring liberals even if they don’t prefer them and/or the off-plan schedule means they get fewer liberal applicants.

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Re: Clerkship App Post-Mortem

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:12 pm
Pardon my idiocy, but I am just a 2L and I feel like I am missing something. This guy is from Stanford and is just outside the top 10%. Isn't that incredibly competitive for all positions minus the major feeders? Or maybe I have a naive view on how competitive clerkship positions really are.
As someone who recently got off a (competitive but non-feeder) CA9 clerkship, top 10% at Stanford makes a person competitive in our chambers in that we would certainly pull the application from the pile and look it over, but we only interviewed like eight people for the four slots we filled (and one of those slots was reserved for a non-HYS school the judge has a connection with and always hires from, which I think is common in a lot of chambers to one degree or another). There were plenty of top 10% HYS people -- and top people at other T-14s -- we did not end up interviewing because we didn't like the writing sample/the recommendations were just okay/they didn't have the other "it" factors my judge tended to like (journal or moot court, PI, a "why X city" and "why this judge" that was more persuasive than "because CA9 is prestigious," etc.).

Unlike the other posters here, the note writing sample would've gone over fine in my chambers if it is good. But the heavy transactional focus definitely would've raised some eyebrows because it would be unclear what they thought they were going to get out of a clerkship in our chambers.
Would the "why city" and "why judge" go in the cover letter? I've been struggling to understand what makes sense for a cover letter and what's just going to annoy the clerks / seem fake / sound like a rehash of my resume.

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Re: Clerkship App Post-Mortem

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:24 pm

I'm not the poster above, but yes, "why this city" and "why this judge" are exactly the kinds of things to put in a cover letter. Probably the most important things you can put in one, honestly.

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Re: Clerkship App Post-Mortem

Post by mjb447 » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:17 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:12 pm
Pardon my idiocy, but I am just a 2L and I feel like I am missing something. This guy is from Stanford and is just outside the top 10%. Isn't that incredibly competitive for all positions minus the major feeders? Or maybe I have a naive view on how competitive clerkship positions really are.
As someone who recently got off a (competitive but non-feeder) CA9 clerkship, top 10% at Stanford makes a person competitive in our chambers in that we would certainly pull the application from the pile and look it over, but we only interviewed like eight people for the four slots we filled (and one of those slots was reserved for a non-HYS school the judge has a connection with and always hires from, which I think is common in a lot of chambers to one degree or another). There were plenty of top 10% HYS people -- and top people at other T-14s -- we did not end up interviewing because we didn't like the writing sample/the recommendations were just okay/they didn't have the other "it" factors my judge tended to like (journal or moot court, PI, a "why X city" and "why this judge" that was more persuasive than "because CA9 is prestigious," etc.).

Unlike the other posters here, the note writing sample would've gone over fine in my chambers if it is good. But the heavy transactional focus definitely would've raised some eyebrows because it would be unclear what they thought they were going to get out of a clerkship in our chambers.
Would the "why city" and "why judge" go in the cover letter? I've been struggling to understand what makes sense for a cover letter and what's just going to annoy the clerks / seem fake / sound like a rehash of my resume.
Those things go in a cover letter - basically anything that you want the judge to know that won't be obvious from your other materials. That tends to include things like why this judge/circuit/city/whatever, how the clerkship fits in with your tentative career plan, and things that you learned at or took away from prior jobs (beyond just rehashing them).

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Re: Clerkship App Post-Mortem

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:46 pm
Concur. That is terrible advice both in the Second Circuit and outside the Second Circuit. The number of CoA judges who do not hire qualified liberals is rather small. You might as well apply to everyone you would work for and let them figure out whether they want to hire you.
Former S clerk who gave the advice here.

I agree that the second circuit conservatives are more open to hiring well-qualified non-conservatives than other judges on other circuits (say fifth). That’s why I recommend he talk to the fed soc chapter on campus, who will know how the judges hire. There are many conservative judges that he shouldn’t waste his time on, especially if he’s sending out a lot of apps and asking professors to make calls (there’s no point in wasting professor calls to judges that won’t hire you).

Some conservative judges will definitely consider him. It’s just a question of which ones to really push for.

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Re: Clerkship App Post-Mortem

Post by getthisbread » Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:12 pm

OP update: Reconfigured my materials and accepted a clerkship with a competitive COA judge in a popular city in DC/2/9. Thank you all for your comments--this thread was extremely helpful!

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Re: Clerkship App Post-Mortem

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:48 pm

getthisbread wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:12 pm
OP update: Reconfigured my materials and accepted a clerkship with a competitive COA judge in a popular city in DC/2/9. Thank you all for your comments--this thread was extremely helpful!
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Re: Clerkship App Post-Mortem

Post by mjb447 » Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:47 am

getthisbread wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:12 pm
OP update: Reconfigured my materials and accepted a clerkship with a competitive COA judge in a popular city in DC/2/9. Thank you all for your comments--this thread was extremely helpful!
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