I know I'm crazy but bear with me...4 clerkships?? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hey guys. So I love clerking. I've had three years of clerking under my belt (2 years D.Ct. with different judges + 1 COA) and I am going to a firm next year. Prior to my clerkships, I practiced at a firm for a year. In the next 3-4 years, I was thinking of maybe doing yet another COA or State Supreme Court clerkship. Why, you may ask? "Just because," is my answer. I realize this may not do anything for my career at this point, but I love the research and writing process and genuinely enjoyed my time clerking for judges who shared the same political and judicial beliefs and philosophies. I'd like to do it again for just one more year. So, guys, given my interest in becoming THAT person who has 4 term clerkships under his/her belt, I'd like to figure out if this is something I can/should do or if doing another COA/State Supreme Court clerkship will destroy my career and my chances to advance in the profession. As of right now, I'd like to work for the Government long-term, but I also want partnership at a firm to remain a serious possibility. Will leaving the firm as a senior associate to clerk again derail my partnership prospects? Or will the firm treat it as like, a year-long sabbatical, as long as I explain myself fully?

Thanks for all your input. You can freely crush my dreams if you think I'm going crazy over here with the prospect of 4 clerkships.

Note: I don't want to be a career clerk. That is, I don't see myself being a clerk for my whole professional life. I'd like to hopefully work in Government or politics in some way. And, again, I'd also like to be in contention for partnership at a firm if that's possible. I just don't see the career clerkship as something that would fulfill my professional goals. At the most, I'd like to do one more year of clerking for a like-minded judge in the state/circuit I'm practicing in, enjoy that year to the fullest, and go back to a firm or transition into government/political work.

[The Lsat Airbender]

I also want partnership at a firm to remain a serious possibility

working at such firm seems like a good start then

[Anonymous User]

Hey guys. So I love clerking. I've had three years of clerking under my belt (2 years D.Ct. with different judges + 1 COA) and I am going to a firm next year. Prior to my clerkships, I practiced at a firm for a year. In the next 3-4 years, I was thinking of maybe doing yet another COA or State Supreme Court clerkship. Why, you may ask? "Just because," is my answer. I realize this may not do anything for my career at this point, but I love the research and writing process and genuinely enjoyed my time clerking for judges who shared the same political and judicial beliefs and philosophies. I'd like to do it again for just one more year. So, guys, given my interest in becoming THAT person who has 4 term clerkships under his/her belt, I'd like to figure out if this is something I can/should do or if doing another COA/State Supreme Court clerkship will destroy my career and my chances to advance in the profession. As of right now, I'd like to work for the Government long-term, but I also want partnership at a firm to remain a serious possibility. Will leaving the firm as a senior associate to clerk again derail my partnership prospects? Or will the firm treat it as like, a year-long sabbatical, as long as I explain myself fully?

Thanks for all your input. You can freely crush my dreams if you think I'm going crazy over here with the prospect of 4 clerkships.

Note: I don't want to be a career clerk. That is, I don't see myself being a clerk for my whole professional life. I'd like to hopefully work in Government or politics in some way. And, again, I'd also like to be in contention for partnership at a firm if that's possible. I just don't see the career clerkship as something that would fulfill my professional goals. At the most, I'd like to do one more year of clerking for a like-minded judge in the state/circuit I'm practicing in, enjoy that year to the fullest, and go back to a firm or transition into government/political work.

I am just going to leave this article here: https://judicature.duke.edu/articles/cl ... lerkships/

This article from Judge Costa encapsulates a sentiment really well. It is something that is completely unnecessary and potentially a detriment to your career. At some point you become an old dog that can't learn new tricks in terms of entry roles are not longer available to you which limits the pool of opportunities a bit. For example, many firms don't want to take a 7th year associate and it sounds like you have prior firm years under your belt. Additionally, Judge Costa's point in the article is that clerking is supposed to be something that sort of helps to train new lawyers to the benefit of the profession and clerking a fourth time, which will be no benefit to you, potentially takes that opportunity away from someone else.

If you really like being in that role, why not try to orient your career around it? Even if you don't want to be a career clerk, maybe try getting a permanent position working in the staff attorney's office at a court? Or talking with local judges and magistrates to see what it would take to maybe someday leapfrog into that role?

[nixy]

I tend to agree that 4 clerkships is excessive. I don’t really agree with the article (which is one judge’s opinion and the best statistics he has are SCOTUS clerks, who aren’t remotely representative of your average lawyers). I mean, I’m biased, because I clerked twice, but I know for a fact that doing the first clerkship got me the second clerkship, and the second clerkship got me my current job. So I think multiple clerkships can be very helpful to grads, though I think two (at different levels) is pretty understandable, three starts to raise eyebrows, and four would be more concerning. And multiples at the same level also raises eyebrows a little.

I’m not especially convinced by the “multiple clerkship mean fewer people get to clerk!” argument, partly because I’m not especially altruistic, and partly because I don’t think that’s really on the applicants. If a judge wants to hire only people who haven’t clerked, for the good of distributing clerkships, that’s cool and their prerogative, but I don’t think applicants have any real obligation to consider that (or at least, not very heavily). That said, at least the author of the article disagrees with me, and someone published the article, so others may agree with the author.

OP, I do know someone who did 4 clerkships, all at different levels, but they were going back to the rural west to work in their parent’s law firm, so didn’t care what anyone thought. I think if you do this 4th term, you might have better luck with the government, depending what you mean by that; they don’t have the same kind of lockstep progression that firms do, nor up and out. So if you can make a good argument for why your clerkships make you a good candidate for the job, great.

I do think that 4 clerkships is hard to fit into the typical firm model, though. You don’t have enough practice experience to match your seniority.

[Anonymous User]

Hey guys. So I love clerking. I've had three years of clerking under my belt (2 years D.Ct. with different judges + 1 COA) and I am going to a firm next year. Prior to my clerkships, I practiced at a firm for a year. In the next 3-4 years, I was thinking of maybe doing yet another COA or State Supreme Court clerkship. Why, you may ask? "Just because," is my answer. I realize this may not do anything for my career at this point, but I love the research and writing process and genuinely enjoyed my time clerking for judges who shared the same political and judicial beliefs and philosophies. I'd like to do it again for just one more year. So, guys, given my interest in becoming THAT person who has 4 term clerkships under his/her belt, I'd like to figure out if this is something I can/should do or if doing another COA/State Supreme Court clerkship will destroy my career and my chances to advance in the profession. As of right now, I'd like to work for the Government long-term, but I also want partnership at a firm to remain a serious possibility. Will leaving the firm as a senior associate to clerk again derail my partnership prospects? Or will the firm treat it as like, a year-long sabbatical, as long as I explain myself fully?

Thanks for all your input. You can freely crush my dreams if you think I'm going crazy over here with the prospect of 4 clerkships.

Note: I don't want to be a career clerk. That is, I don't see myself being a clerk for my whole professional life. I'd like to hopefully work in Government or politics in some way. And, again, I'd also like to be in contention for partnership at a firm if that's possible. I just don't see the career clerkship as something that would fulfill my professional goals. At the most, I'd like to do one more year of clerking for a like-minded judge in the state/circuit I'm practicing in, enjoy that year to the fullest, and go back to a firm or transition into government/political work.

Given your political interests, it's possible a state supreme court clerkship for an elected justice might make some sense--more for the political connections than the clerking experience itself. For example, if your state was Ohio and you were a Republican, clerking for Justice Pat DeWine, son of Governor Mike DeWine, could make some political sense.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the comments! I'm aware of the Costa article and I do agree that the 4th clerkship is completely unnecessary for my career and potentially a detriment where, at least, private practice is involved. It seems to me that if I indeed do a fourth clerkship term in the future (when I am a senior associate), biglaw with its structured associate model may not be a good fit for me. What about litigation boutiques? Would those be a good landing spot for people who clerked four times?

As for "Government" roles, I was thinking of possibly using the 4th clerkship as a transition from my work at my future firm (a reputable/ranked lit boutique in my market which pays NYC market rates just to give you a sense of the firm) to maybe the state AG/SG's office, or even in AUSA/DOJ/Executive Branch roles. I realize that even without the 4th clerkship, I would probably be a competitive candidate for those roles coming from a firm and that those roles are crapshoots for everyone.

The truly honest answer as to why I want a 4th clerkship is because of the fun, fulfilling experience particularly if the judge fits my political/judicial mold. As one poster above rightfully indicated, I do have serious political interests so I am actually leaning towards doing a state supreme court clerkship if anything. And, the poster's instincts are right: I'm going to be located in an Ohio-like state where the justices are elected. Maybe, for professional purposes, I can make the 4th clerkship a "neutral" thing on my resume by saying "I wanted to do another one because I'm practicing in x state and/or in x circuit and I realize having that experience with y judge/state justice would help my private practice/help my transition to x government role." But that would only be partly true.

Maybe, as a poster above said, I do need to think about possible roles within the judiciary I can augment my career with, as opposed to a 4th clerkship. What those roles are, I have yet to imagine, however.

[lavarman84]

It's definitely not going to help you make partner. It won't necessarily hurt you with government, but it'll look odd on your resume when applying for subsequent jobs. I'd be ready to have an explanation for why you felt clerking for that particular judge was worth it despite all your previous clerkships.

[lavarman84]

I tend to agree that 4 clerkships is excessive. I don’t really agree with the article (which is one judge’s opinion and the best statistics he has are SCOTUS clerks, who aren’t remotely representative of your average lawyers). I mean, I’m biased, because I clerked twice, but I know for a fact that doing the first clerkship got me the second clerkship, and the second clerkship got me my current job. So I think multiple clerkships can be very helpful to grads, though I think two (at different levels) is pretty understandable, three starts to raise eyebrows, and four would be more concerning. And multiples at the same level also raises eyebrows a little.

Agreed.

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, I work as an AUSA and I don’t think anyone here cares in the slightest or even really considers state clerkships. You have federal clerkships already so you’ve ticked any boxes that clerking will tick, and a state clerkship just won’t compute in any way (except maybe if the justice has connections to a specific office you’re applying to, like used to work there).

As for whether clerking for an elected justice would help, no idea. I just think elected justices are a terrible practice so would be turned off on that basis.

[LBJ's Hair]

I've had three years of clerking under my belt (2 years D.Ct. with different judges + 1 COA) and I am going to a firm next year. Prior to my clerkships, I practiced at a firm for a year. In the next 3-4 years, I was thinking of maybe doing yet another COA or State Supreme Court clerkship. Why, you may ask? "Just because," is my answer. I realize this may not do anything for my career at this point, but I love the research and writing process and genuinely enjoyed my time clerking for judges who shared the same political and judicial beliefs and philosophies. I'd like to do it again for just one more year. So, guys, given my interest in becoming THAT person who has 4 term clerkships under his/her belt, I'd like to figure out if this is something I can/should do or if doing another COA/State Supreme Court clerkship will destroy my career and my chances to advance in the profession. As of right now, I'd like to work for the Government long-term, but I also want partnership at a firm to remain a serious possibility. Will leaving the firm as a senior associate to clerk again derail my partnership prospects? Or will the firm treat it as like, a year-long sabbatical, as long as I explain myself fully?

My two cents: Leaving a firm for a *fourth clerkship*---after you already did *three*---tells any future employer scanning your resume "this guy doesn't want to do anything other than clerk."

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, I work as an AUSA and I don’t think anyone here cares in the slightest or even really considers state clerkships. You have federal clerkships already so you’ve ticked any boxes that clerking will tick, and a state clerkship just won’t compute in any way (except maybe if the justice has connections to a specific office you’re applying to, like used to work there).

As someone with some AUSA and state AG experience, I agree with the above, But if the OP is considering a state AG's office, a 4th clerkship for that state's supreme court would probably be considered useful.

[lavarman84]

FWIW, I work as an AUSA and I don’t think anyone here cares in the slightest or even really considers state clerkships. You have federal clerkships already so you’ve ticked any boxes that clerking will tick, and a state clerkship just won’t compute in any way (except maybe if the justice has connections to a specific office you’re applying to, like used to work there).

As someone with some AUSA and state AG experience, I agree with the above, But if the OP is considering a state AG's office, a 4th clerkship for that state's supreme court would probably be considered useful.

Agreed. And if OP wants to do appellate work, that sort of resume would give him or her a shot at a state SG's office, especially if he or she is conservative. (I mean, OP already has a shot now, but it would only help with that sort of job.) Although, obviously, it takes some luck to land a job like that because there are only so many jobs in a particular office and they aren't always looking to hire. (Of course, you could always go to work for the state AG doing something else and then move over to that when a spot opens up.)

[Jchance]

I would imagine a firm would treat you as unhirable. Being a 5th year with only 1 year of practicing experience is not hirable at most firms--you would simply lack the skills and experience for private practice. It's not just crazy, it's a career suicide.

With a fourth clerkship, unless it's with SCOTUS, your probably "only" option thereafter is being a career clerk.

[Anonymous User]

I know of one person who did three appellate clerkships--on the same federal court of appeals, no less--who eventually became one of the leading appellate specialists in my small jurisdiction. I think it might raise fewer eyebrows in a smaller jurisdiction where you'll have firms dying to hire any COA clerk who are willing to overlook an unconventional career path. They also will generally have more flexibility on partnership tracks. But if you're in a market-paying state that's presumably not the position you're in.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks everyone for indulging my post. I think y'all have successfully convinced me to not do another clerkship in the future. And if I do one, maybe for my state's supreme court. But even then I think I've successfully been convinced to forego it.