What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each Forum

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Palsgraf1500

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Palsgraf1500 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:36 pm

Which circuits (if any) have the largest amount of administrative law cases after D.C. Circuit?

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:40 pm

Palsgraf1500 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:36 pm
Which circuits (if any) have the largest amount of administrative law cases after D.C. Circuit?
The fourth circuit almost certainly—or it’s at least near the top. There are tons of federal agencies in VA and MD bordering DC, and the 4th Cir. hears a lot of cases arising from them.

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:40 pm
Palsgraf1500 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:36 pm
Which circuits (if any) have the largest amount of administrative law cases after D.C. Circuit?
The fourth circuit almost certainly—or it’s at least near the top. There are tons of federal agencies in VA and MD bordering DC, and the 4th Cir. hears a lot of cases arising from them.
This is correct. Also, because USPTO is in Alexandria, CA4 hears the most IP cases outside of the Federal Circuit (though obviously it's still just a small fraction).

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:00 pm

Can someone comment on CA10 rg. what makes it unique/interesting/different with more specificity?

lavarman84

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by lavarman84 » Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:00 pm
Can someone comment on CA10 rg. what makes it unique/interesting/different with more specificity?
It has the lightest caseload. There are a lot of Native American tribes. So you might run into tribal law issues and gaming law. Beyond that, I'm not coming up with anything too out of the ordinary. Denver is a great place to have oral arguments.

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:54 pm

I agree with the above. Probably also water law and natural resources cases, to some extent.

FWIW, I tend to find the 10th circuit stuff pretty well reasoned and researched, without being extreme in either direction. I’m not currently in that circuit (though I used to be), and their cases tend to be useful for understanding the state of given caselaw, without going off in any weird directions.

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by johndonne » Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:11 am

Palsgraf1500 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:36 pm
Which circuits (if any) have the largest amount of administrative law cases after D.C. Circuit?
This is a bit late, but the Federal Circuit gets a ton of administrative law cases.

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by stoopkid13 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:56 pm

lavarman84 wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:00 pm
Can someone comment on CA10 rg. what makes it unique/interesting/different with more specificity?
It has the lightest caseload. There are a lot of Native American tribes. So you might run into tribal law issues and gaming law. Beyond that, I'm not coming up with anything too out of the ordinary. Denver is a great place to have oral arguments.
Is this still true post-McGirt?

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:01 pm

CA3's Virgin Islands sittings were interesting -- interplay between federal courts and the territorial ones. One of our cases involved review of a licensing decision by a local land use appeals board; sort of a fed courts tour de force

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midwestlaw20

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by midwestlaw20 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:57 pm

Nerdy question, but does anyone know why the COAs are set up the way they are? Some of the groupings of states seem to make sense (ex. the 1st is most of New England, the 7th is Chicagoland), but others like the 6th, 8th, and 10th seem totally random.

Also, are COA judges more likely to hear cases from their state, or is it truly random (or does it depend on the circuit)? Especially with the 2nd/7th/5th/9th where more (most?) cases probably arise out of NY/IL/TX/CA, I wonder if judges sitting in a less busy state like VT or IN would be intentionally put panels for appeals that arise out of that state.

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by replevin123 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:23 pm

midwestlaw20 wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:57 pm
Nerdy question, but does anyone know why the COAs are set up the way they are? Some of the groupings of states seem to make sense (ex. the 1st is most of New England, the 7th is Chicagoland), but others like the 6th, 8th, and 10th seem totally random.

Also, are COA judges more likely to hear cases from their state, or is it truly random (or does it depend on the circuit)? Especially with the 2nd/7th/5th/9th where more (most?) cases probably arise out of NY/IL/TX/CA, I wonder if judges sitting in a less busy state like VT or IN would be intentionally put panels for appeals that arise out of that state.
Give Arkansas to the 5th; Kansas and Oklahoma to the 8th, and Idaho and Montana to the 10th.

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:54 pm

replevin123 wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:23 pm
midwestlaw20 wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:57 pm
Nerdy question, but does anyone know why the COAs are set up the way they are? Some of the groupings of states seem to make sense (ex. the 1st is most of New England, the 7th is Chicagoland), but others like the 6th, 8th, and 10th seem totally random.

Also, are COA judges more likely to hear cases from their state, or is it truly random (or does it depend on the circuit)? Especially with the 2nd/7th/5th/9th where more (most?) cases probably arise out of NY/IL/TX/CA, I wonder if judges sitting in a less busy state like VT or IN would be intentionally put panels for appeals that arise out of that state.
Give Arkansas to the 5th; Kansas and Oklahoma to the 8th, and Idaho and Montana to the 10th.
Equally nerdy: I’ve thought about this.

CA1 gets VT (MA RI VT NH ME)

CA2 gets PR (NY CT PR)

CA3 stays same (NJ PA DE)

CA4 loses WV to the 6th (VA, MD, NC, SC)

CA5 gets Ark (TX, AR, MS, LA)

CA6 gets WV, loses MI (gets all of Appalachia) (OH, WV, TN, KY)

CA7 gets MI (IN, MI, IL, WI)

CA8 gets KS from 10, loses ARk (KS, ND, SD, IA, MO, NE, MN)

CA9 loses AK, HI, islands to CADC, and MT, ID, AZ to 10 (CA, OR, WA, NV)

CA10 gains MT, ID, AZ (CO, MT, ID, AZ, OK, UT, NM, WY)

CA11 stays same

CADC gets HI, AK / islands (makes it truly a ‘national court’) and they need the cases!

I think these make the split more region-centric. Thoughts from other fed courts nerds?

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:54 pm
replevin123 wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:23 pm
midwestlaw20 wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:57 pm
Nerdy question, but does anyone know why the COAs are set up the way they are? Some of the groupings of states seem to make sense (ex. the 1st is most of New England, the 7th is Chicagoland), but others like the 6th, 8th, and 10th seem totally random.

Also, are COA judges more likely to hear cases from their state, or is it truly random (or does it depend on the circuit)? Especially with the 2nd/7th/5th/9th where more (most?) cases probably arise out of NY/IL/TX/CA, I wonder if judges sitting in a less busy state like VT or IN would be intentionally put panels for appeals that arise out of that state.
Give Arkansas to the 5th; Kansas and Oklahoma to the 8th, and Idaho and Montana to the 10th.
Equally nerdy: I’ve thought about this.

CA1 gets VT (MA RI VT NH ME)

CA2 gets PR (NY CT PR)

CA3 stays same (NJ PA DE)

CA4 loses WV to the 6th (VA, MD, NC, SC)

CA5 gets Ark (TX, AR, MS, LA)

CA6 gets WV, loses MI (gets all of Appalachia) (OH, WV, TN, KY)

CA7 gets MI (IN, MI, IL, WI)

CA8 gets KS from 10, loses ARk (KS, ND, SD, IA, MO, NE, MN)

CA9 loses AK, HI, islands to CADC, and MT, ID, AZ to 10 (CA, OR, WA, NV)

CA10 gains MT, ID, AZ (CO, MT, ID, AZ, OK, UT, NM, WY)

CA11 stays same

CADC gets HI, AK / islands (makes it truly a ‘national court’) and they need the cases!

I think these make the split more region-centric. Thoughts from other fed courts nerds?
Nerdy OP (lol) - thanks for engaging! I love and agree with like 90% of this. The only ones where I would differ are:

CA2 - NY CT PR NJ (NJ is basically a suburb of NYC so I always think it's weird that it's in a different circuit)

CA3 - PA DE OH (Probs controversial, but western PA and OH are like basically the same thing. Some people even argue that PA is a Midwestern state because of western PA. As a true Midwesterner I disagree, but I can see their argument).

CA5 - TX LA MS AR OK (Would add Oklahoma to Texas just because friends from OK say there's a lot of overlap between those two states - more than OK and CO or UT for sure).

CA6 - KY TN WV (no OH - these are really the core Appalachian states, and only a small part of southern OH and western PA are Appalachian)

CA7/CA8 - Selfishly I want MN in CA7 rather than CA8 (it's much more urban/liberal than all the other CA8 states, MN and WI are very similar culturally, and Minneapolis is the Midwest's 2nd best city after Chicago). But I agree that the 8th circuit would be very underpopulated with MN - maybe says more about how the 8th Circuit makes no sense generally...

CA9 - I would keep AK and HI here rather than CADC. AK has a lot of ties to the PNW, and HI and CA have a lot of overlap too. I like the idea of a "national" DC Cir. though!

CA11 - just kick FL out of the union altogether (haha I jest...but like actually though can we? And this is someone with relatives in FL.)

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replevin123

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by replevin123 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:54 pm
replevin123 wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:23 pm
midwestlaw20 wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:57 pm
Nerdy question, but does anyone know why the COAs are set up the way they are? Some of the groupings of states seem to make sense (ex. the 1st is most of New England, the 7th is Chicagoland), but others like the 6th, 8th, and 10th seem totally random.

Also, are COA judges more likely to hear cases from their state, or is it truly random (or does it depend on the circuit)? Especially with the 2nd/7th/5th/9th where more (most?) cases probably arise out of NY/IL/TX/CA, I wonder if judges sitting in a less busy state like VT or IN would be intentionally put panels for appeals that arise out of that state.
Give Arkansas to the 5th; Kansas and Oklahoma to the 8th, and Idaho and Montana to the 10th.
Equally nerdy: I’ve thought about this.

CA1 gets VT (MA RI VT NH ME)

CA2 gets PR (NY CT PR)

CA3 stays same (NJ PA DE)

CA4 loses WV to the 6th (VA, MD, NC, SC)

CA5 gets Ark (TX, AR, MS, LA)

CA6 gets WV, loses MI (gets all of Appalachia) (OH, WV, TN, KY)

CA7 gets MI (IN, MI, IL, WI)

CA8 gets KS from 10, loses ARk (KS, ND, SD, IA, MO, NE, MN)

CA9 loses AK, HI, islands to CADC, and MT, ID, AZ to 10 (CA, OR, WA, NV)

CA10 gains MT, ID, AZ (CO, MT, ID, AZ, OK, UT, NM, WY)

CA11 stays same

CADC gets HI, AK / islands (makes it truly a ‘national court’) and they need the cases!

I think these make the split more region-centric. Thoughts from other fed courts nerds?
Love it. Your AK and HI proposal is bold. Commerce-wise though, they might actually belong in CA9. Could let CADC have PR instead, but that would leave CA2 with only two. You nailed the rest.

GavinMcG

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by GavinMcG » Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:23 am

Seems to me it could be fun to be more anti-regional:

CA7: IL, MO, AR, LA, MS
CA9: CA, HI, AZ, NM, TX
CADC: DC, AL, OR, PR

(And for the sake of completeness:
CA1: MA, RI, CT
CA2: NY, ME, NH, VT
CA3: PA, OH, WV, KY
CA4: NJ, DE, MD, VA, NC
CA5: UT, NV, CO, WY
CA6: AK, WA, ID, MT, ND
CA8: MN, WI, MI, IN, IA
CA10: NE, KS, OK, SD
CA11: TN, SC, GA, FL)

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:22 am

midwestlaw20 wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:57 pm
Also, are COA judges more likely to hear cases from their state, or is it truly random (or does it depend on the circuit)? Especially with the 2nd/7th/5th/9th where more (most?) cases probably arise out of NY/IL/TX/CA, I wonder if judges sitting in a less busy state like VT or IN would be intentionally put panels for appeals that arise out of that state.
I never did the math, but my sense was my judge was less likely to hear cases from their state because of conflicts/recusals. Probably varies by judge, but if you're a recent US Attorney for a single district state for example, you may be conflicted out of all criminal appeals from that state.

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:22 pm

I worked for a white-collar partner who joked that a benefit of hiring him is that you’d get one of the state’s COA judges, who is very friendly to the prosecution, conflicted off your panel.

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Laser Lady » Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:52 pm

stoopkid13 wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:56 pm
lavarman84 wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:00 pm
Can someone comment on CA10 rg. what makes it unique/interesting/different with more specificity?
It has the lightest caseload. There are a lot of Native American tribes. So you might run into tribal law issues and gaming law. Beyond that, I'm not coming up with anything too out of the ordinary. Denver is a great place to have oral arguments.
Is this still true post-McGirt?
Yep, it's still true. It may be worth pointing out that McGirt resolved a split between the Tenth Circuit and Oklahoma courts by adopting the Tenth Circuit's rule, so McGirt doesn't represent a change in controlling precedent within the Tenth Circuit. McGirt may apply in some state habeas cases, but those cases take a long time to work their way up through the system to the federal appeals court, and it's unlikely that there will be enough of them to significantly affect the Tenth Circuit's caseload.

Going back to the original question, the Tenth Circuit decides the most military habeas cases of any of the circuits -- jurisdiction over military habeas cases is based on the location where the individual is incarcerated, and the bulk of military sentences are served in the United States Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. However, military habeas cases amount to only a tiny fraction of the federal caseload, and most Tenth Circuit clerks are unlikely to work on a military habeas case.

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:33 am

Laser Lady wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:52 pm
stoopkid13 wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:56 pm
lavarman84 wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:00 pm
Can someone comment on CA10 rg. what makes it unique/interesting/different with more specificity?
It has the lightest caseload. There are a lot of Native American tribes. So you might run into tribal law issues and gaming law. Beyond that, I'm not coming up with anything too out of the ordinary. Denver is a great place to have oral arguments.
Is this still true post-McGirt?
Yep, it's still true. It may be worth pointing out that McGirt resolved a split between the Tenth Circuit and Oklahoma courts by adopting the Tenth Circuit's rule, so McGirt doesn't represent a change in controlling precedent within the Tenth Circuit. McGirt may apply in some state habeas cases, but those cases take a long time to work their way up through the system to the federal appeals court, and it's unlikely that there will be enough of them to significantly affect the Tenth Circuit's caseload.

Going back to the original question, the Tenth Circuit decides the most military habeas cases of any of the circuits -- jurisdiction over military habeas cases is based on the location where the individual is incarcerated, and the bulk of military sentences are served in the United States Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. However, military habeas cases amount to only a tiny fraction of the federal caseload, and most Tenth Circuit clerks are unlikely to work on a military habeas case.
But McGirt has caused a boatload of new federal prosecutions, which in turn will have appellate issues in due time.

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:43 am

Other than sitting in NOLA and being very conservative, anything special about the Fifth?
Does it get any more energy/ natural resource or immigration stuff because of TX, for example?

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:04 am

Just anecdotally from having to research immigration stuff, yes, the 5th gets a lot of it.

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:54 am

The 5th seems to have a lot of admiralty/maritime as well relative to most circuits

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:43 am
Other than sitting in NOLA and being very conservative, anything special about the Fifth?
Does it get any more energy/ natural resource or immigration stuff because of TX, for example?
If you think “hot-button” issues is a class of case, and like seeing your writing get quoted quite a bit in the news, the Fifth is a great place to be.

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Saami » Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:47 pm

GavinMcG wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:23 am
Seems to me it could be fun to be more anti-regional:

CA7: IL, MO, AR, LA, MS
CA9: CA, HI, AZ, NM, TX
CADC: DC, AL, OR, PR

(And for the sake of completeness:
CA1: MA, RI, CT
CA2: NY, ME, NH, VT
CA3: PA, OH, WV, KY
CA4: NJ, DE, MD, VA, NC
CA5: UT, NV, CO, WY
CA6: AK, WA, ID, MT, ND
CA8: MN, WI, MI, IN, IA
CA10: NE, KS, OK, SD
CA11: TN, SC, GA, FL)
As an Eastern Pennsylvania native, the current Third Circuit makes much more sense to me than your proposal. Maybe Pennsylvania should be split up, lol.

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Re: What makes each circuit special/what are the distinctive caseloads for each

Post by Laser Lady » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:33 am
Laser Lady wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:52 pm
stoopkid13 wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:56 pm
lavarman84 wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:34 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:00 pm
Can someone comment on CA10 rg. what makes it unique/interesting/different with more specificity?
It has the lightest caseload. There are a lot of Native American tribes. So you might run into tribal law issues and gaming law. Beyond that, I'm not coming up with anything too out of the ordinary. Denver is a great place to have oral arguments.
Is this still true post-McGirt?
Yep, it's still true. It may be worth pointing out that McGirt resolved a split between the Tenth Circuit and Oklahoma courts by adopting the Tenth Circuit's rule, so McGirt doesn't represent a change in controlling precedent within the Tenth Circuit. McGirt may apply in some state habeas cases, but those cases take a long time to work their way up through the system to the federal appeals court, and it's unlikely that there will be enough of them to significantly affect the Tenth Circuit's caseload.

Going back to the original question, the Tenth Circuit decides the most military habeas cases of any of the circuits -- jurisdiction over military habeas cases is based on the location where the individual is incarcerated, and the bulk of military sentences are served in the United States Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. However, military habeas cases amount to only a tiny fraction of the federal caseload, and most Tenth Circuit clerks are unlikely to work on a military habeas case.
But McGirt has caused a boatload of new federal prosecutions, which in turn will have appellate issues in due time.
According to the most recent statistics I could find, McGirt is causing about 70 new federal prosecutions to be initiated every month nationwide. Because many of those cases are arising in Oklahoma, they have undoubtedly increased the caseload for the Oklahoma district courts. The impact on the Tenth Circuit will be much smaller, however. It's been consistently true for the past several years, and across various types of federal prosecutions, that about 90% of federal defendants plead guilty (often with a waiver of appellate rights), and 8% are not convicted. In general, the only criminal appeals that require a significant amount of work are appeals from jury-trial convictions, which constitute less than 2% of the total prosecutions filed.

Assuming this pattern holds true with post-McGirt prosecutions -- and I don't see any reason why it wouldn't -- the Tenth Circuit will perhaps have an additional 15 difficult criminal appeals per year (with perhaps another 50 appeals that challenge sentencing decisions, many of which are likely to be barred by plea waivers of appellate rights). I guess we can argue as to whether that's significant or not, but I don't think it's enough to change the fact that the Tenth Circuit has the lightest caseload of the circuits.

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