Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond) Forum

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 06, 2022 11:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 6:13 pm
Weirdly and disappointingly light update at this stage, especially for 2022. Also weirdly "diffuse" (the megafeeders on both sides of the aisle have like two each except for Sri and Pryor), but that might be because the update isn't full. Would have expected more #'s from Thapar / Sutton / Katsas. Livingston shut out. Bibas is matching them numbers-wise which is exciting for the 3d Cir, as is Rao. All this could be BS that resolves itself more clearly when a full list is published, but can OP / someone else update the spreadsheets?

Park (which has been known here) and Pacold (which hasn't been, to my knowledge) getting on the score sheet is cool. Mitchell -> Thomas obviously a rather big story, with some even triple-clerking to get him.
Well, this was very early and the wrong call. Pryor added a couple, Katsas got 5 more and Thapar got 6 more in this morning's update. Bibas added two, Sutton and Rao added one, so that seems to be a very clear "best of the rest" conservative feeder class among the COAs. The other big story is Oldham with four (!), I believe Sullivan's first time on the scoresheet as a COA feeder (he also seems to have fed an extra older clerk from the SDNY days).

Almost no interesting lib news here since Kagan has hired out, with *next* term's hires not added to in this update, no Soto news has been added, and obviously Breyer is retired and KBJ news hasn't reached Lat here. Lohier / Moss for CJR is I believe the only lib addition.

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 06, 2022 12:36 pm

Bibas hires widely across the ideological spectrum, so he’s fighting with one hand tied behind his back feeding-wise, which makes his rate especially impressive. I’m also somewhat skeptical that he’ll keep it up, though, for the same reason—feeding nearly all of your conservative clerks seems unsustainable if you’re not Katsas or Pryor.

Also Barrett has now hired at least two clerks who were originally going to clerk for her on CA7, but ended up elsewhere after her elevation (Dickman and Pociask).
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri May 06, 2022 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 06, 2022 12:38 pm

Do conservative Justices normally hire liberals that work for conservative feeders?

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 06, 2022 12:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:38 pm
Do conservative Justices normally hire liberals that work for conservative feeders?
I can’t speak universally, but of the large number of liberals my school has sent to counterclerk for conservative judges since the Trump era started, none have been hired at SCOTUS to my knowledge. Also conservative semi-feeders tend to hire more counterclerks than conservative feeders (aside from maybe Sutton).

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 06, 2022 12:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:38 pm
Do conservative Justices normally hire liberals that work for conservative feeders?
Kind of the opposite of what you’re asking but a couple years ago Sotomayor hired a (presumably liberal) clerk that had previously clerked for Thapar and Kozinski.

I know Roberts tends to hire across the ideological spectrum and it seems much less so for the other conservatives.

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 06, 2022 12:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:49 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:38 pm
Do conservative Justices normally hire liberals that work for conservative feeders?
I can’t speak universally, but of the large number of liberals my school has sent to counterclerk for conservative judges since the Trump era started, none have been hired at SCOTUS to my knowledge. Also conservative semi-feeders tend to hire more counterclerks than conservative feeders (aside from maybe Sutton).
In light of this, is a liberal student with SCOTUS aims better off trying their very hardest to get a liberal semi-feeder? (Outside of Pillard/Sri there doesn't really seem to be any liberal feeders anymore, and even Pillard was highly dependent on Breyer).

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 06, 2022 12:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:51 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:38 pm
Do conservative Justices normally hire liberals that work for conservative feeders?
Kind of the opposite of what you’re asking but a couple years ago Sotomayor hired a (presumably liberal) clerk that had previously clerked for Thapar and Kozinski.

I know Roberts tends to hire across the ideological spectrum and it seems much less so for the other conservatives.
Will liberals still hire liberals who clerk for conservative judges? That's the confusing part.

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 06, 2022 1:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:51 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:38 pm
Do conservative Justices normally hire liberals that work for conservative feeders?
Kind of the opposite of what you’re asking but a couple years ago Sotomayor hired a (presumably liberal) clerk that had previously clerked for Thapar and Kozinski.

I know Roberts tends to hire across the ideological spectrum and it seems much less so for the other conservatives.
Will liberals still hire liberals who clerk for conservative judges? That's the confusing part.
Sotomayor hired several from Thapar when he was a district judge, but beyond that, I don’t think so really. SCOTUS has become such a long shot for liberals that the three liberal justices can easily fill their spots only from liberal judges if they want to, and that seems to be the what they do, even though a fairly large number of top liberal students now clerk for conservative judges.

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 06, 2022 1:40 pm

Could someone post the new hires? Is OT 2023 full?

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by FrenchPrince » Fri May 06, 2022 1:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 1:00 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:51 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:38 pm
Do conservative Justices normally hire liberals that work for conservative feeders?
Kind of the opposite of what you’re asking but a couple years ago Sotomayor hired a (presumably liberal) clerk that had previously clerked for Thapar and Kozinski.

I know Roberts tends to hire across the ideological spectrum and it seems much less so for the other conservatives.
Will liberals still hire liberals who clerk for conservative judges? That's the confusing part.
Sotomayor hired several from Thapar when he was a district judge, but beyond that, I don’t think so really. SCOTUS has become such a long shot for liberals that the three liberal justices can easily fill their spots only from liberal judges if they want to, and that seems to be the what they do, even though a fairly large number of top liberal students now clerk for conservative judges.
Eh I don't know if it's such a preference for ideology-matching from the Justices, but we're talking about sample-size 2 here with Breyer gone and KBJ's practices unknown. It's more the supply issue that being a *top* liberal student for liberal feeders is going to require ridiculously sterling credentials, since most aren't that open to jumping the plan, either because of ideological reasons or because they won't get the FedSoc "push" to chambers and are kind of going it alone if they try to counterclerk below. So they end up waiting for the liberals on plan, play the Hunger Games to get one of the coveted spots, and then at the next jump up there's still such a major cull when it comes to the few liberal / half-of-CJR SCOTUS seats available that, e.g., Kagan can just pick from the lot of double-feeder perfect-grades HYS types.

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 06, 2022 1:50 pm

FrenchPrince wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 1:44 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 1:00 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:51 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:38 pm
Do conservative Justices normally hire liberals that work for conservative feeders?
Kind of the opposite of what you’re asking but a couple years ago Sotomayor hired a (presumably liberal) clerk that had previously clerked for Thapar and Kozinski.

I know Roberts tends to hire across the ideological spectrum and it seems much less so for the other conservatives.
Will liberals still hire liberals who clerk for conservative judges? That's the confusing part.
Sotomayor hired several from Thapar when he was a district judge, but beyond that, I don’t think so really. SCOTUS has become such a long shot for liberals that the three liberal justices can easily fill their spots only from liberal judges if they want to, and that seems to be the what they do, even though a fairly large number of top liberal students now clerk for conservative judges.
Eh I don't know if it's such a preference for ideology-matching from the Justices, but we're talking about sample-size 2 here with Breyer gone and KBJ's practices unknown. It's more the supply issue that being a *top* liberal student for liberal feeders is going to require ridiculously sterling credentials, since most aren't that open to jumping the plan, either because of ideological reasons or because they won't get the FedSoc "push" to chambers and are kind of going it alone if they try to counterclerk below. So they end up waiting for the liberals on plan, play the Hunger Games to get one of the coveted spots, and then at the next jump up there's still such a major cull when it comes to the few liberal / half-of-CJR SCOTUS seats available that, e.g., Kagan can just pick from the lot of double-feeder perfect-grades HYS types.
Probably depends in part on the school too. An absolute majority of the liberal K&Es at Chicago last year counterclerked at least once, which I’m sure isn’t true for their equivalents at NYU, which won’t help you off-plan.

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 06, 2022 2:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 1:40 pm
Could someone post the new hires? Is OT 2023 full?
YLS —> Lohier/Moss (DDC) —> JGR
YLS —> Sullivan (SDNY)/JR Brown —> CT
YLS —> Thapar —> CT
YLS —> Rao/Sullivan —> SAA
YLS —> Thapar/Katsas —> SAA
Penn —> Tjoflat/Matey —> SAA
YLS —> Kethledge/Grant —> NMG
NW —> Oldham/Pryor —> NMG
Chi —> Thapar/Oldham —> NMG
YLS —> Cabranes —> NMG
UVA —> Oldham/Thapar —> NMG
HLS —> Oldham/Newsom —> NMG
YLS —> Bibas/JR Walker —> NMG
YLS —> Hardiman —> BMK
ND —> Colloton/Sutton —> ACB
UVA —> Sykes/Katsas —> ACB
SLS —> Bibas/Friedrich (DDC) —> ACB
Chi —> Thapar/Katsas —> ACB
YLS —> Kethledge/Thapar —> AMK

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 06, 2022 10:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 2:57 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 1:40 pm
Could someone post the new hires? Is OT 2023 full?
YLS —> Lohier/Moss (DDC) —> JGR
YLS —> Sullivan (SDNY)/JR Brown —> CT
YLS —> Thapar —> CT
YLS —> Rao/Sullivan —> SAA
YLS —> Thapar/Katsas —> SAA
Penn —> Tjoflat/Matey —> SAA
YLS —> Kethledge/Grant —> NMG
NW —> Oldham/Pryor —> NMG
Chi —> Thapar/Oldham —> NMG
YLS —> Cabranes —> NMG
UVA —> Oldham/Thapar —> NMG
HLS —> Oldham/Newsom —> NMG
YLS —> Bibas/JR Walker —> NMG
YLS —> Hardiman —> BMK
ND —> Colloton/Sutton —> ACB
UVA —> Sykes/Katsas —> ACB
SLS —> Bibas/Friedrich (DDC) —> ACB
Chi —> Thapar/Katsas —> ACB
YLS —> Kethledge/Thapar —> AMK
That Oldham to Gorsuch pipeline is quite something

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 07, 2022 1:00 am

Hardly the main story, but hard not to see Walker (DC)'s feed as really Bibas-driven. Unlike the latter, the former's scholarship and writing style is...tough to develop a palate for, even disregarding ideology (i.e., I'm not saying this is in the "ABA not-qualified" way). Kind of been a bust feeder-wise despite himself being a SCOTUS clerk for the foregoing reasons, too.

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 07, 2022 2:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 1:00 am
Hardly the main story, but hard not to see Walker (DC)'s feed as really Bibas-driven. Unlike the latter, the former's scholarship and writing style is...tough to develop a palate for, even disregarding ideology (i.e., I'm not saying this is in the "ABA not-qualified" way). Kind of been a bust feeder-wise despite himself being a SCOTUS clerk for the foregoing reasons, too.
Being a former SCOTUS clerk has little correlation with feeding. Walker doesn’t feed as much as the others because he wasn’t part of the DC elite litigation scene before joining the bench. He’s like Henderson in that way. Also maintaining chambers in Kentucky instead of DC might eventually limit his pull, but I have seen no real evidence it’s hurt the quality of clerks he can recruit.

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 07, 2022 9:09 am

Could someone post the names of the new clerks? Curious but not a Lat subscriber.

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 07, 2022 11:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 9:09 am
Could someone post the names of the new clerks? Curious but not a Lat subscriber.
They usually are on Wikipedia

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 07, 2022 11:06 am

Interesting how the Trump conservative district judges have kind of taken a while to get going relative to the appellate ones. Kovner, Pacold, and McFadden have fed now, but there’s none to not much from the Cronan / Nichols / Kness / Seeger, etc. camp. None has really emerged as the next Friedrich or matches up with the SDNY libs (minus Abrams) / Feinerman / Chhabria feeder-wise. But these things can change quickly (see Bibas, Oldham, Rao, etc.)

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 07, 2022 12:50 pm

Do Columbia and NYU just not make any effort to place their top students on SCOTUS?

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 07, 2022 2:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 11:06 am
Interesting how the Trump conservative district judges have kind of taken a while to get going relative to the appellate ones. Kovner, Pacold, and McFadden have fed now, but there’s none to not much from the Cronan / Nichols / Kness / Seeger, etc. camp. None has really emerged as the next Friedrich or matches up with the SDNY libs (minus Abrams) / Feinerman / Chhabria feeder-wise. But these things can change quickly (see Bibas, Oldham, Rao, etc.)
I think it's unlikely that the non-Friedrich DJs become Chhabria/Boasberg-scale feeders in the near term.

1. Most top Fed Soc applicants still land two appellate clerkships before the DJs hire unless they deliberately try not to, which requires a lot of confidence and presence of mind from a 1L, or they land with a judge who particularly pushes their clerks not to do double appellate (e.g. Bibas, Bress). This is a result of the early off-plan cycle, and basically the same dynamic that led to the ideological divide in double-appellate vs. district/appellate in the first place.

2. Many of the DJs hire liberals and/or prioritize grades over ideology if they can only have one (thinking Cronan, Kovner, Pacold, Seeger especially). It's not a coincidence that these people got blue slips in blue states, they're not Bill Pryor.

That said, the more competitive ones on that list are still exclusively hiring on referral, often from prominent Fed Soc COA judges, and I'd be very surprised if they don't feed occasionally, like e.g. Sullivan used to.

Fwiw I also know that Beaton, Kness, Maze, and Mizelle have picked up clerks from major Fed Soc appellate judges, though I think it's more likely to be an occasional thing with them.

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 07, 2022 2:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 2:57 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 1:40 pm
Could someone post the new hires? Is OT 2023 full?
YLS —> Lohier/Moss (DDC) —> JGR
YLS —> Sullivan (SDNY)/JR Brown —> CT
YLS —> Thapar —> CT
YLS —> Rao/Sullivan —> SAA
YLS —> Thapar/Katsas —> SAA
Penn —> Tjoflat/Matey —> SAA
YLS —> Kethledge/Grant —> NMG
NW —> Oldham/Pryor —> NMG
Chi —> Thapar/Oldham —> NMG
YLS —> Cabranes —> NMG
UVA —> Oldham/Thapar —> NMG
HLS —> Oldham/Newsom —> NMG
YLS —> Bibas/JR Walker —> NMG
YLS —> Hardiman —> BMK
ND —> Colloton/Sutton —> ACB
UVA —> Sykes/Katsas —> ACB
SLS —> Bibas/Friedrich (DDC) —> ACB
Chi —> Thapar/Katsas —> ACB
YLS —> Kethledge/Thapar —> AMK
A couple missing here--VanDyke's brother was in the last batch, but he appears to have been hired by Katsas after he landed SCOTUS, and YLS --> Pryor/Katsas --> CT.

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 07, 2022 2:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:05 pm
Thanks to the last reply. Also, what was the third C. Breyer -> Breyer feed besides the McKeown and Friedland / Cuellar ones?
OT 2016.

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 07, 2022 3:11 pm

The spreadsheet returns, updated through the David Lat post of 5/6/2022.

Circuit judges, including retired justices: https://imgur.com/a/wU3vVxg
Circuit judges, excluding retired justices: https://imgur.com/a/kksIdOL
Non-circuit judges, excluding retired justices: https://imgur.com/a/b6wRu2Y

The following circuit judges fed one clerk during the time period:
A. Duncan*, Ambro, Berzon, Bress, Bush, Carney, Christen, Clifton, Collins, Elrod, Flaum, G. Lynch, Gruender, Hamilton, Higginbotham, Higginson, Holmes, Ikuta, Jolly, K.N. Moore, Marcus, Matey, McKeague, Murguia, N.R. Smith, Richman**, Owens, P. Kelly, Rogers, S. Lynch, S. Thomas, S. Williams, Sack, Sentelle, Stras, Sullivan, Tjoflat, Tymkovich, Wilkins, Willett, Wood

*Elevated, inactive, or deceased
**formerly known as Priscilla Owen (CA5)

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 07, 2022 3:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 3:11 pm
The spreadsheet returns, updated through the David Lat post of 5/6/2022.

Circuit judges, including retired justices: https://imgur.com/a/wU3vVxg
Circuit judges, excluding retired justices: https://imgur.com/a/kksIdOL
Non-circuit judges, excluding retired justices: https://imgur.com/a/b6wRu2Y

The following circuit judges fed one clerk during the time period:
A. Duncan*, Ambro, Berzon, Bress, Bush, Carney, Christen, Clifton, Collins, Elrod, Flaum, G. Lynch, Gruender, Hamilton, Higginbotham, Higginson, Holmes, Ikuta, Jolly, K.N. Moore, Marcus, Matey, McKeague, Murguia, N.R. Smith, Richman**, Owens, P. Kelly, Rogers, S. Lynch, S. Thomas, S. Williams, Sack, Sentelle, Stras, Sullivan, Tjoflat, Tymkovich, Wilkins, Willett, Wood

*Elevated, inactive, or deceased
**formerly known as Priscilla Owen (CA5)
I wonder if there is a way to further break this down by excluding clerks who almost certainly weren't pushed to the Court by their judges. Namely, there is an increasing propensity of some justices to hire law school professors, lawyers close to 8 years out of law school, and it seems pretty unlikely their judge was a major factor in their hiring.

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Re: Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond)

Post by FrenchPrince » Sun May 08, 2022 12:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 3:11 pm
The spreadsheet returns, updated through the David Lat post of 5/6/2022.

Circuit judges, including retired justices: https://imgur.com/a/wU3vVxg
Circuit judges, excluding retired justices: https://imgur.com/a/kksIdOL
Non-circuit judges, excluding retired justices: https://imgur.com/a/b6wRu2Y

The following circuit judges fed one clerk during the time period:
A. Duncan*, Ambro, Berzon, Bress, Bush, Carney, Christen, Clifton, Collins, Elrod, Flaum, G. Lynch, Gruender, Hamilton, Higginbotham, Higginson, Holmes, Ikuta, Jolly, K.N. Moore, Marcus, Matey, McKeague, Murguia, N.R. Smith, Richman**, Owens, P. Kelly, Rogers, S. Lynch, S. Thomas, S. Williams, Sack, Sentelle, Stras, Sullivan, Tjoflat, Tymkovich, Wilkins, Willett, Wood

*Elevated, inactive, or deceased
**formerly known as Priscilla Owen (CA5)
Heads up - I think the non-Circuit link is broken

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