Restructuring after Clerkships? Forum

[bored2L]

How abnormal would it be for someone to do restructuring work when starting at their firm after district + CoA clerkships?

[Anonymous User]

CoA clerkship, perfectly normal, needs no explanation.

District clerkship, maybe slightly unusual, but I assume that's because of self-selection and not because a District clerkship in any way limits your RX opportunities. I definitely wouldn't call it "abnormal," and I've seen a number of District clerks in various RX shops. (With SDNY being significantly overrepresented, but that kind of speaks for itself)

Granted, if you always planned on going into RX it probably would have made more sense (and been more useful as a practical matter) to target DE/SDNY BK clerkships, but really the important thing is that you can sell your interest in RX.

That said, you should be prepared to answer questions about why you did a District clerkship instead of a BK clerkship or just the CoA if you always planned on RX. Not as a gotcha, but as a genuine question.

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Should a 2L, set on going RX (not RX lit) even bother with COA clerkship. Roughly top 2% at a T6 and FedSoc, so pushed to apply.

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Should a 2L, set on going RX (not RX lit) even bother with COA clerkship. Roughly top 2% at a T6 and FedSoc, so pushed to apply.

No. Why forego additional money, live in a place you don't want to (probably), and do law you aren't interested in?

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Should a 2L, set on going RX (not RX lit) even bother with COA clerkship. Roughly top 2% at a T6 and FedSoc, so pushed to apply.

You will likely get a Supreme Court clerkship if you want to go that route, or at bare minimum a major feeder, especially if the T6 isn’t CLS or NYU. Do you want to clerk on the Supreme Court? There are some corporate and restructuring lawyers who do it, it’s not unheard of.

It’s worth noting that you’re off-cycle for Fed Soc clerkships so you would likely be working at a firm for a year or two before clerking, unless you clerk for a judge like Bibas or Sullivan who saves spots for late bloomers.

You could alternatively target Ambro, who looks for bankruptcy-focused clerks and is very well-connected in that community. Your bankruptcy professors probably know him.

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Should a 2L, set on going RX (not RX lit) even bother with COA clerkship. Roughly top 2% at a T6 and FedSoc, so pushed to apply.

You will likely get a Supreme Court clerkship if you want one, especially if the T6 isn’t CLS or NYU. Do you want to clerk on the Supreme Court? There are some corporate and restructuring lawyers who do it, it’s not unheard of.

Of course I would want that. But, thought you need to be basically #1 if not at HYSC (which I’m not).

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Should a 2L, set on going RX (not RX lit) even bother with COA clerkship. Roughly top 2% at a T6 and FedSoc, so pushed to apply.

You will likely get a Supreme Court clerkship if you want one, especially if the T6 isn’t CLS or NYU. Do you want to clerk on the Supreme Court? There are some corporate and restructuring lawyers who do it, it’s not unheard of.

Of course I would want that. But, thought you need to be basically #1 if not at HYSC (which I’m not).

You definitely don’t need to be #1 if you’re in Fed Soc. But you’re right that being at CLS or NYU is a headwind.

Re class year note also that if you strongly prefer to be in New York, most judges on CA2 (including Livingston and Park who would be the targets there for Fed Soc SCOTUS) hire pretty far out.

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Should a 2L, set on going RX (not RX lit) even bother with COA clerkship. Roughly top 2% at a T6 and FedSoc, so pushed to apply.

You will likely get a Supreme Court clerkship if you want one, especially if the T6 isn’t CLS or NYU. Do you want to clerk on the Supreme Court? There are some corporate and restructuring lawyers who do it, it’s not unheard of.

Of course I would want that. But, thought you need to be basically #1 if not at HYSC (which I’m not).

You definitely don’t need to be #1 if you’re in Fed Soc. But you’re right that being at CLS or NYU is a headwind.

Re class year note also that if you strongly prefer to be in New York, most judges on CA2 (including Livingston and Park who would be the targets there for Fed Soc SCOTUS) hire pretty far out.

Thanks for this. Will think it over.

Even without that dream outcome, certain opportunities may be worth it (2d. Cir especially).

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Should a 2L, set on going RX (not RX lit) even bother with COA clerkship. Roughly top 2% at a T6 and FedSoc, so pushed to apply.

You will likely get a Supreme Court clerkship if you want one, especially if the T6 isn’t CLS or NYU. Do you want to clerk on the Supreme Court? There are some corporate and restructuring lawyers who do it, it’s not unheard of.

Of course I would want that. But, thought you need to be basically #1 if not at HYSC (which I’m not).

You definitely don’t need to be #1 if you’re in Fed Soc. But you’re right that being at CLS or NYU is a headwind.

Re class year note also that if you strongly prefer to be in New York, most judges on CA2 (including Livingston and Park who would be the targets there for Fed Soc SCOTUS) hire pretty far out.

Thanks for this. Will think it over.

Even without that dream outcome, certain opportunities may be worth it (2d. Cir especially).

If you decide you’re interested, you should apply before the Plan. No reason not to jump the gun and they’re used to profs being obnoxious about it.

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Should a 2L, set on going RX (not RX lit) even bother with COA clerkship. Roughly top 2% at a T6 and FedSoc, so pushed to apply.

No. Even a feeder COA clerkship is just not a big deal for true RX lawyers. It simply isn't that helpful and you would be better off just practicing at a solid RX shop like Kirkland, Weil, Davis Polk, SullCrom or wherever. If you aren't doing litigation, this is only worth it if you get SCOTUS. And you are a deep longshot for SCOTUS from NYU, Columbia, or Penn. I don't care what anyone says on this forum, look at the SCOTUS hires over the last decade. There is almost no one from those schools. The problem is that these schools are not connected whatsoever in the elite conservative legal circles that most SCOTUS clerks come from. I went to Penn and I don't think there was even a single semi well-connected conservative heavy hitter on the faculty when I was there. In fact, I don't even think there was a single professor who clerked for any of the current conservative justices. Maybe that's changed, but I doubt it. You also definitely already know this if you are in fed-soc at one of these schools. At the end of the day, if you elect for a COA you will just have basically wasted a year living somewhere shitty for no benefit and less money. If you know you want to be an RX lawyer please ignore the law school bullshit and do not do a clerkship. But if you must chase your SCOTUS pipedream than apply to literally just Katsas, Thapar, and Oldham.

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Should a 2L, set on going RX (not RX lit) even bother with COA clerkship. Roughly top 2% at a T6 and FedSoc, so pushed to apply.

I went to Penn and I don't think there was even a single semi well-connected conservative heavy hitter on the faculty when I was there.

Wax?

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Should a 2L, set on going RX (not RX lit) even bother with COA clerkship. Roughly top 2% at a T6 and FedSoc, so pushed to apply.

I went to Penn and I don't think there was even a single semi well-connected conservative heavy hitter on the faculty when I was there.

Wax?

It doesn't seem like Wax is connected in the legal conservative circles, and she's so radioactive that even FedSoc types largely avoid her. If you're FedSoc SCOTUS potential at Penn, and you're not the goddaughter of Scalia, your best bet is taking classes with Bibas, hitting it out of the park, and having him in your corner. See the girl who recently? currently? clerked for Roberts.

[jotarokujo]

CoA clerkship, perfectly normal, needs no explanation.

District clerkship, maybe slightly unusual, but I assume that's because of self-selection and not because a District clerkship in any way limits your RX opportunities. I definitely wouldn't call it "abnormal," and I've seen a number of District clerks in various RX shops. (With SDNY being significantly overrepresented, but that kind of speaks for itself)

Granted, if you always planned on going into RX it probably would have made more sense (and been more useful as a practical matter) to target DE/SDNY BK clerkships, but really the important thing is that you can sell your interest in RX.

That said, you should be prepared to answer questions about why you did a District clerkship instead of a BK clerkship or just the CoA if you always planned on RX. Not as a gotcha, but as a genuine question.

not challenging, genuinely curious because I know nothing about rx, why is it that CoA clerkship -> rx is more common/typical than district court clerkship -> rx . Is it somthing about the experience, or are the people who do CoA more predisposed to preferring rx, like some kind of self selection effect?

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Should a 2L, set on going RX (not RX lit) even bother with COA clerkship. Roughly top 2% at a T6 and FedSoc, so pushed to apply.

I went to Penn and I don't think there was even a single semi well-connected conservative heavy hitter on the faculty when I was there.

Wax?

It doesn't seem like Wax is connected in the legal conservative circles, and she's so radioactive that even FedSoc types largely avoid her. If you're FedSoc SCOTUS potential at Penn, and you're not the goddaughter of Scalia, your best bet is taking classes with Bibas, hitting it out of the park, and having him in your corner. See the girl who recently? currently? clerked for Roberts.

Yeah this is accurate. Even putting aside Wax’s controversial stuff; she’s just not plugged into the current SCOTUS world at all. If she is the top dog in your corner you have no shot at SCOTUS. I didn’t realize Bibas still taught at Penn. But I doubt Bibas is going to advocate for a student that doesn’t clerk for him in the same way that he does for his clerks. You probably would be looking at a Bibas clerkship paired with another one if he’s actually in your corner and you are gunning for SCOTUS. Again, not worth it for the limited upside if you are doing RX.

[Anonymous User]

OR here (original reviver) - conversation has gotten a bit off track. What about the 2d Circuit? Some of those judges feed occasionally and likely more valuable / valued for Rx. No?

[Anonymous User]

OR here (original reviver) - conversation has gotten a bit off track. What about the 2d Circuit? Some of those judges feed occasionally and likely more valuable / valued for Rx. No?

If you want a judge recognized by the bankruptcy world, the top of your list should read Ambro, Ambro, and Ambro

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Should a 2L, set on going RX (not RX lit) even bother with COA clerkship. Roughly top 2% at a T6 and FedSoc, so pushed to apply.

No. Even a feeder COA clerkship is just not a big deal for true RX lawyers. It simply isn't that helpful and you would be better off just practicing at a solid RX shop like Kirkland, Weil, Davis Polk, SullCrom or wherever. If you aren't doing litigation, this is only worth it if you get SCOTUS. And you are a deep longshot for SCOTUS from NYU, Columbia, or Penn. I don't care what anyone says on this forum, look at the SCOTUS hires over the last decade. There is almost no one from those schools. The problem is that these schools are not connected whatsoever in the elite conservative legal circles that most SCOTUS clerks come from. I went to Penn and I don't think there was even a single semi well-connected conservative heavy hitter on the faculty when I was there. In fact, I don't even think there was a single professor who clerked for any of the current conservative justices. Maybe that's changed, but I doubt it. You also definitely already know this if you are in fed-soc at one of these schools. At the end of the day, if you elect for a COA you will just have basically wasted a year living somewhere shitty for no benefit and less money. If you know you want to be an RX lawyer please ignore the law school bullshit and do not do a clerkship. But if you must chase your SCOTUS pipedream than apply to literally just Katsas, Thapar, and Oldham.

CLS and NYU both have heavy-hitter Fed Soc faculty (e.g. Hamburger, Epstein) and a lot of visiting judges (e.g. Livingston, Park, Sullivan, Raggi). Plus there are liberals well-connected to conservatives like Sarah Seo. It’s not guaranteed but there are very few top 2% conservatives at these schools, esp NYU.

[Anonymous User]

OR here (original reviver) - conversation has gotten a bit off track. What about the 2d Circuit? Some of those judges feed occasionally and likely more valuable / valued for Rx. No?

If you want a judge recognized by the bankruptcy world, the top of your list should read Ambro, Ambro, and Ambro

Yes, I think CA2’s main perk is that it gets a lot of complex business lit generally, not that it’s particularly connected to the bankruptcy bar. For that Ambro is ideal, though he doesn’t generally feed.

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Should a 2L, set on going RX (not RX lit) even bother with COA clerkship. Roughly top 2% at a T6 and FedSoc, so pushed to apply.

No. Even a feeder COA clerkship is just not a big deal for true RX lawyers. It simply isn't that helpful and you would be better off just practicing at a solid RX shop like Kirkland, Weil, Davis Polk, SullCrom or wherever. If you aren't doing litigation, this is only worth it if you get SCOTUS. And you are a deep longshot for SCOTUS from NYU, Columbia, or Penn. I don't care what anyone says on this forum, look at the SCOTUS hires over the last decade. There is almost no one from those schools. The problem is that these schools are not connected whatsoever in the elite conservative legal circles that most SCOTUS clerks come from. I went to Penn and I don't think there was even a single semi well-connected conservative heavy hitter on the faculty when I was there. In fact, I don't even think there was a single professor who clerked for any of the current conservative justices. Maybe that's changed, but I doubt it. You also definitely already know this if you are in fed-soc at one of these schools. At the end of the day, if you elect for a COA you will just have basically wasted a year living somewhere shitty for no benefit and less money. If you know you want to be an RX lawyer please ignore the law school bullshit and do not do a clerkship. But if you must chase your SCOTUS pipedream than apply to literally just Katsas, Thapar, and Oldham.

CLS and NYU both have heavy-hitter Fed Soc faculty (e.g. Hamburger, Epstein) and a lot of visiting judges (e.g. Livingston, Park, Sullivan, Raggi). Plus there are liberals well-connected to conservatives like Sarah Seo. It’s not guaranteed but there are very few top 2% conservatives at these schools, esp NYU.

My two cents as a Fedsoc clerk that went to the schools mentioned and had a serious interest in restructuring. No, I don't think clerking is particularly useful for the day to day of restructuring work at all.

But the benefit of clerking is doing interesting work, having a judge in your corner, and access to an alumni network that can help you out down the line. You can decide for yourself whether being a first-year at Weil doing drudge work is a better use of a year than clerking. And you can see with time whether restructuring is what you absolutely want to be doing long-term. I don't think clerking, especially for someone well regarded, closes any doors, and it can open quite a few interesting ones as well.

There are benefits to clerking even if you do not get SCOTUS, and from NYU/CLS will be an uphill battle for sure to get to SCOTUS. The faculty is disinterested and most of the justices don't take the New York schools particularly seriously.