I'm going to guess that this is for Beth Robinson — she explicitly stated in her listing that she would start interviewing in late June, early July, so I'm glad she meant it!Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:03 pmGot a 2nd Cir. interview out of nowhere yesterday so movement is still happening
2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread Forum
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
Just means that the application window is no longer open.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:59 pmWhat's the deal with judges on OSCAR going expired? I take that it means they probably filled and just forgot to/didn't feel the need to update.
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
Throwing out a billion applications and praying is not really a strategy with a high chance of success, unless you’re like top 5% at a T-14. There are too many applicants to count on being pulled out of the stack. You need professors reaching out to judges and pushing youAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:20 pmis this an appropriate time to lose hope? applied to about 60 district court judges on plan. heard not a peep from a single one. applied in the midwest and south-east/south... i knew chicago, philly, and the dmv area were long shots but i was hoping to really hear from at least one of the more rural midwestern judges?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:10 amWait till the end of this week, then... probably yeah.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:36 pmSo if I haven't gotten an interview from on plan judges yet, it's prob reasonable to losing hope abt now, right?
not really sure what to do now....just wait out another cycle basically?
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
Actually had 2 profs call 4 judges each. And then last week had another prof call another 4 judges who we guessed might still be reviewing apps…but no hits…Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:25 pmThrowing out a billion applications and praying is not really a strategy with a high chance of success, unless you’re like top 5% at a T-14. There are too many applicants to count on being pulled out of the stack. You need professors reaching out to judges and pushing youAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:20 pmis this an appropriate time to lose hope? applied to about 60 district court judges on plan. heard not a peep from a single one. applied in the midwest and south-east/south... i knew chicago, philly, and the dmv area were long shots but i was hoping to really hear from at least one of the more rural midwestern judges?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:10 amWait till the end of this week, then... probably yeah.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:36 pmSo if I haven't gotten an interview from on plan judges yet, it's prob reasonable to losing hope abt now, right?
not really sure what to do now....just wait out another cycle basically?
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
For sure. Lee and Perez are full.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:10 pmI'm going to guess that this is for Beth Robinson — she explicitly stated in her listing that she would start interviewing in late June, early July, so I'm glad she meant it!Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:03 pmGot a 2nd Cir. interview out of nowhere yesterday so movement is still happening
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
60 applications is actually not a lot.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:25 pmThrowing out a billion applications and praying is not really a strategy with a high chance of success, unless you’re like top 5% at a T-14. There are too many applicants to count on being pulled out of the stack. You need professors reaching out to judges and pushing youAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:20 pmis this an appropriate time to lose hope? applied to about 60 district court judges on plan. heard not a peep from a single one. applied in the midwest and south-east/south... i knew chicago, philly, and the dmv area were long shots but i was hoping to really hear from at least one of the more rural midwestern judges?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:10 amWait till the end of this week, then... probably yeah.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:36 pmSo if I haven't gotten an interview from on plan judges yet, it's prob reasonable to losing hope abt now, right?
not really sure what to do now....just wait out another cycle basically?
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
At many courts in more rural states, local ties are the differentiator more than calls. Most judges want clerks who want to practice nearby.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:25 pmThrowing out a billion applications and praying is not really a strategy with a high chance of success, unless you’re like top 5% at a T-14. There are too many applicants to count on being pulled out of the stack. You need professors reaching out to judges and pushing youAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:20 pmis this an appropriate time to lose hope? applied to about 60 district court judges on plan. heard not a peep from a single one. applied in the midwest and south-east/south... i knew chicago, philly, and the dmv area were long shots but i was hoping to really hear from at least one of the more rural midwestern judges?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:10 amWait till the end of this week, then... probably yeah.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:36 pmSo if I haven't gotten an interview from on plan judges yet, it's prob reasonable to losing hope abt now, right?
not really sure what to do now....just wait out another cycle basically?
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
This post is largely not asking for advice but really just to vent about how horrible this process is. I killed myself working and am top 5 at MVP with writing awards, have big name professors calling, a lot of work experience, and was met with radio silence.
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
Top 10ish at CCN and in a similar situation—dw you're not aloneAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:37 pmThis post is largely not asking for advice but really just to vent about how horrible this process is. I killed myself working and am top 5 at MVP with writing awards, have big name professors calling, a lot of work experience, and was met with radio silence.
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
I'm curious how many judges you guys applied to? I feel like your stats alone would get you an interview even if you applied to just the 100 most competitive judges.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:56 pmTop 10ish at CCN and in a similar situation—dw you're not aloneAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:37 pmThis post is largely not asking for advice but really just to vent about how horrible this process is. I killed myself working and am top 5 at MVP with writing awards, have big name professors calling, a lot of work experience, and was met with radio silence.
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
Also top 5 student at a T14 not mentioned here and had radio silence the first two weeks of the a plan. I then expanded my list to less competitive judges and ended up landing a COA within a couple of days. That is to say I think there is some reason to hold out hope and/or expand your list, if you applied narrowly. But yes, this process f’ing sucks especially for non HYS.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:56 pmTop 10ish at CCN and in a similar situation—dw you're not aloneAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:37 pmThis post is largely not asking for advice but really just to vent about how horrible this process is. I killed myself working and am top 5 at MVP with writing awards, have big name professors calling, a lot of work experience, and was met with radio silence.
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
Yeah this is really strange unless you only applied to Dem-appointed judges in NYC or something (which, because that poster is definitely not a Chicago K&E and is thus at CLS or NYU, I would not put past them!)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:15 pmI'm curious how many judges you guys applied to? I feel like your stats alone would get you an interview even if you applied to just the 100 most competitive judges.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:56 pmTop 10ish at CCN and in a similar situation—dw you're not aloneAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:37 pmThis post is largely not asking for advice but really just to vent about how horrible this process is. I killed myself working and am top 5 at MVP with writing awards, have big name professors calling, a lot of work experience, and was met with radio silence.
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
For all those disappointed right now, the bright side is that you now have a leg up in that you can be hired off plan by the increasing number of judges who fill at least some of their slots that way. It can be more difficult to know when a judge is willing to consider applicants, but if you can have a professor push you with some judges in the fall, your odds will be better since you won’t be competing head-to-head with hundreds of others
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
CCN anon. Applied to a little over 100 circuit and districts. Gotta keep applying I guess.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:15 pmI'm curious how many judges you guys applied to? I feel like your stats alone would get you an interview even if you applied to just the 100 most competitive judges.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:56 pmTop 10ish at CCN and in a similar situation—dw you're not aloneAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:37 pmThis post is largely not asking for advice but really just to vent about how horrible this process is. I killed myself working and am top 5 at MVP with writing awards, have big name professors calling, a lot of work experience, and was met with radio silence.
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
How would you recommend doing this? Send in a batch and give a Professor 5 names or just apply as soon as posting comes out and give Professor the name? I have a good relationship with my Professor(s), but not good enough I think that I can email them once a week to call or email a new judge.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:56 pmFor all those disappointed right now, the bright side is that you now have a leg up in that you can be hired off plan by the increasing number of judges who fill at least some of their slots that way. It can be more difficult to know when a judge is willing to consider applicants, but if you can have a professor push you with some judges in the fall, your odds will be better since you won’t be competing head-to-head with hundreds of others
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
Two theories.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:14 pmYeah this is really strange unless you only applied to Dem-appointed judges in NYC or something (which, because that poster is definitely not a Chicago K&E and is thus at CLS or NYU, I would not put past them!)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:15 pmI'm curious how many judges you guys applied to? I feel like your stats alone would get you an interview even if you applied to just the 100 most competitive judges.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:56 pmTop 10ish at CCN and in a similar situation—dw you're not aloneAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:37 pmThis post is largely not asking for advice but really just to vent about how horrible this process is. I killed myself working and am top 5 at MVP with writing awards, have big name professors calling, a lot of work experience, and was met with radio silence.
Being top 10% at CLS/NYU is not guaranteed a spot at the most competitive judges, so this is not too hard to believe, though it is a bit surprising.
If they are top 10 students, though, double Kent or whatever the equivalent at NYU is, this is pretty bad barring a disastrous app or only applying to Rakoff/Oetken/Nathan.
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
Talked to clerkship office and went over my app. Supposedly it was great, just got unlucky—idk. Working with my professors to try again. Everyone was suprised, but it's not like it is the plan or nothing. Going to try again.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:09 amTwo theories.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:14 pmYeah this is really strange unless you only applied to Dem-appointed judges in NYC or something (which, because that poster is definitely not a Chicago K&E and is thus at CLS or NYU, I would not put past them!)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:15 pmI'm curious how many judges you guys applied to? I feel like your stats alone would get you an interview even if you applied to just the 100 most competitive judges.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:56 pmTop 10ish at CCN and in a similar situation—dw you're not aloneAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:37 pmThis post is largely not asking for advice but really just to vent about how horrible this process is. I killed myself working and am top 5 at MVP with writing awards, have big name professors calling, a lot of work experience, and was met with radio silence.
Being top 10% at CLS/NYU is not guaranteed a spot at the most competitive judges, so this is not too hard to believe, though it is a bit surprising.
If they are top 10 students, though, double Kent or whatever the equivalent at NYU is, this is pretty bad barring a disastrous app or only applying to Rakoff/Oetken/Nathan.
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
If you're at CLS, I wouldn't trust the clerkship office. Check with someone else as well and maybe point blank ask about your recommendation letters. They might give you a hint whether one of the letters is not as strong as you think.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:37 amTalked to clerkship office and went over my app. Supposedly it was great, just got unlucky—idk. Working with my professors to try again. Everyone was suprised, but it's not like it is the plan or nothing. Going to try again.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:09 amTwo theories.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:14 pmYeah this is really strange unless you only applied to Dem-appointed judges in NYC or something (which, because that poster is definitely not a Chicago K&E and is thus at CLS or NYU, I would not put past them!)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:15 pmI'm curious how many judges you guys applied to? I feel like your stats alone would get you an interview even if you applied to just the 100 most competitive judges.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:56 pmTop 10ish at CCN and in a similar situation—dw you're not aloneAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:37 pmThis post is largely not asking for advice but really just to vent about how horrible this process is. I killed myself working and am top 5 at MVP with writing awards, have big name professors calling, a lot of work experience, and was met with radio silence.
Being top 10% at CLS/NYU is not guaranteed a spot at the most competitive judges, so this is not too hard to believe, though it is a bit surprising.
If they are top 10 students, though, double Kent or whatever the equivalent at NYU is, this is pretty bad barring a disastrous app or only applying to Rakoff/Oetken/Nathan.
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
Ngl as someone who is just barely top third (33%) I think at MVP who also struck out on plan this makes me feel better…but also if people with better credentials don’t get clerkships what is the hope for the rest of us lolhysreacher wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:25 pmAlso top 5 student at a T14 not mentioned here and had radio silence the first two weeks of the a plan. I then expanded my list to less competitive judges and ended up landing a COA within a couple of days. That is to say I think there is some reason to hold out hope and/or expand your list, if you applied narrowly. But yes, this process f’ing sucks especially for non HYS.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:56 pmTop 10ish at CCN and in a similar situation—dw you're not aloneAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:37 pmThis post is largely not asking for advice but really just to vent about how horrible this process is. I killed myself working and am top 5 at MVP with writing awards, have big name professors calling, a lot of work experience, and was met with radio silence.
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
You shouldn't just ask your professors to email every judge that has an opening. Instead, wait until there's a judge that you're very interested in, or let your professors know now which judges those might be, and email them when those positions open up. In any case, it's likely that positions you're interested in won't be opening up every week going forward, so you shouldn't worry too much about that.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:07 amHow would you recommend doing this? Send in a batch and give a Professor 5 names or just apply as soon as posting comes out and give Professor the name? I have a good relationship with my Professor(s), but not good enough I think that I can email them once a week to call or email a new judge.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:56 pmFor all those disappointed right now, the bright side is that you now have a leg up in that you can be hired off plan by the increasing number of judges who fill at least some of their slots that way. It can be more difficult to know when a judge is willing to consider applicants, but if you can have a professor push you with some judges in the fall, your odds will be better since you won’t be competing head-to-head with hundreds of others
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
So is the 23-24 cycle basically over…should I just focus on 24-25 now?
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
Yes, but with the caveat that basically over is not completely over. I am sure some trickle of interviews will come in.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 4:34 pmSo is the 23-24 cycle basically over…should I just focus on 24-25 now?
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
How much does your course selection actually matter for clerkships?
I am currently a rising 2L on the absolute ass-end of the top 10% (magna/Order of the Coif), like literally by 0.01. This is allowing me to put "top 10%" on my resume for pre-OCI and OCI, and I really want to graduate magna. So basically what I want to do (especially with grade inflation) is do mostly seminars/experiential stuff/externships and not do Admin, etc. (Still planning on doing at least one major black-letter class per semester plus Con Law 2/Fed Courts.)
If I apply to clerkships, it would be after a year or two of experience with a firm, so like 4-5 years from now. How much will it hurt me at that point to have not done more black letter classes?
I am currently a rising 2L on the absolute ass-end of the top 10% (magna/Order of the Coif), like literally by 0.01. This is allowing me to put "top 10%" on my resume for pre-OCI and OCI, and I really want to graduate magna. So basically what I want to do (especially with grade inflation) is do mostly seminars/experiential stuff/externships and not do Admin, etc. (Still planning on doing at least one major black-letter class per semester plus Con Law 2/Fed Courts.)
If I apply to clerkships, it would be after a year or two of experience with a firm, so like 4-5 years from now. How much will it hurt me at that point to have not done more black letter classes?
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
IME clerking for two judges in SDNY/DDC/EDNY and CA2/CA9/CADC, it matters a LOT. Judges are not dumb and are well aware of the difference between achieving a high grade in Admin Law/Fed Courts/Evidence, as opposed to achieving the same grade in, for example, Law and Gender. That being said, I cannot speak authoritatively for all judges of course.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:42 amHow much does your course selection actually matter for clerkships?
I am currently a rising 2L on the absolute ass-end of the top 10% (magna/Order of the Coif), like literally by 0.01. This is allowing me to put "top 10%" on my resume for pre-OCI and OCI, and I really want to graduate magna. So basically what I want to do (especially with grade inflation) is do mostly seminars/experiential stuff/externships and not do Admin, etc. (Still planning on doing at least one major black-letter class per semester plus Con Law 2/Fed Courts.)
If I apply to clerkships, it would be after a year or two of experience with a firm, so like 4-5 years from now. How much will it hurt me at that point to have not done more black letter classes?
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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread
I think it's going to matter less if you're applying after working for a couple of years - judges who prefer to hire people with practice experience will often be more interested in what people actually have done in practice and what people who have worked with you can say about you.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:59 amIME clerking for two judges in SDNY/DDC/EDNY and CA2/CA9/CADC, it matters a LOT. Judges are not dumb and are well aware of the difference between achieving a high grade in Admin Law/Fed Courts/Evidence, as opposed to achieving the same grade in, for example, Law and Gender. That being said, I cannot speak authoritatively for all judges of course.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:42 amHow much does your course selection actually matter for clerkships?
I am currently a rising 2L on the absolute ass-end of the top 10% (magna/Order of the Coif), like literally by 0.01. This is allowing me to put "top 10%" on my resume for pre-OCI and OCI, and I really want to graduate magna. So basically what I want to do (especially with grade inflation) is do mostly seminars/experiential stuff/externships and not do Admin, etc. (Still planning on doing at least one major black-letter class per semester plus Con Law 2/Fed Courts.)
If I apply to clerkships, it would be after a year or two of experience with a firm, so like 4-5 years from now. How much will it hurt me at that point to have not done more black letter classes?
I also think that externships/experiential stuff can land differently from "law and" seminars, if it's clearly related to what you want to do (some clinics are a shitload of work so while the grading may be easier, it doesn't suggest you're slacking).
Though of course, like the above, I can't speak for all judges and can't say that it won't ever matter. When there are a zillion top candidates, sometimes these kinds of distinctions become a way to pick. And there are arguably judges who want people to have that background enough that they'll take someone with a slightly lower GPA but who's at least taken the central courses for clerking (for instance I think Admin was really helpful to have).
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