2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Idk if I would say this is an "unremarkable application." So long as you keep the 1:1 DS and P ratio and the rest H, you have a decently strong application for all those courts except CADC. Still, I would apply slightly broader if I were you—add in Third Circuit for sure.

Agreed. Those grades are magna range -- they make you competitive for everything except probably CADC (unless you have a Fed Soc hook for that). They would certainly have been enough to get you a close look from the clerks in my 9th circuit chambers (which I know is not on your list, but I suspect is similar to non-feeders a lot of the places you're looking). In terms of actually getting us to put you in front of the judge -- not to mention getting the judge to decide to interview you -- in my chambers no law review would hurt, but could be compensated for by either 1) a call from a prof, or 2) some other interesting/impressive extracurriculars. Ames semi-finalist or above would be one obvious thing, though I assume you would've mentioned that if you had it. Other things that I saw work: notable public interest dedication; obvious and dedicated focus in a specific field (for instance, RAing for a prof + leadership on a secondary journal + a clinic/internship all in the same area, especially if it was one that we didn't see a lot).

That said, I'd say your application is the kind that could easily land you where you've listed, but it's not a guarantee. So, like the poster I've quoted, I agree you should probably broaden your search a little, but you don't have to go wild and apply everywhere in the country. I agree with adding EDPA and CA3 into the mix. You might also want to consider CA4 and D.Md. I'm not sure how you feel about living in Baltimore (personally, I think it's a great city), but if you want to be near DC you should at least check out the judges located in Bethesda -- I knew people who clerked there while living in DC. You might also consider D.Mass for your first year out, assuming you're aiming to do a district court clerkship first. Personally, I hated living in Boston, but I ended up staying there an extra year after HLS for a job, and I gotta say, not having to worry about moving at the same time as studying for the bar was great.

How sure are we about the "except CADC" conventional wisdom? I was +1 DS/P and interviewed with a reasonably competitive D.C. Circuit judge (no Fed Soc). Granted, I didn't get the position. But the judge specifically remarked positively about my transcript, so at a minimum I'm assuming it was not out of the ordinary?

My sense is that it's primarily just a question of how you can break through to the attention of the judge. An email from a strong personal connection played that role for me. Maybe if you're relying on transcript alone you'd need something more, like +3 or +4 DS/P. That's just speculation.

With that said, my understanding is that Srinivasan is a legendary grade nut. I think it might not be much of an exaggeration to say he would only consider someone if they have one of the top ~10 transcripts at each of HYP. Which... okay. Maybe a few others on CADC are similar?

I think Srinivasan is even more selective than that—from what I can tell he’s comfortably the most grade-selective judge in the country. Most of his HLS clerks seem to be Fay/Sears/summa.

[Anonymous User]

Idk if I would say this is an "unremarkable application." So long as you keep the 1:1 DS and P ratio and the rest H, you have a decently strong application for all those courts except CADC. Still, I would apply slightly broader if I were you—add in Third Circuit for sure.

Agreed. Those grades are magna range -- they make you competitive for everything except probably CADC (unless you have a Fed Soc hook for that). They would certainly have been enough to get you a close look from the clerks in my 9th circuit chambers (which I know is not on your list, but I suspect is similar to non-feeders a lot of the places you're looking). In terms of actually getting us to put you in front of the judge -- not to mention getting the judge to decide to interview you -- in my chambers no law review would hurt, but could be compensated for by either 1) a call from a prof, or 2) some other interesting/impressive extracurriculars. Ames semi-finalist or above would be one obvious thing, though I assume you would've mentioned that if you had it. Other things that I saw work: notable public interest dedication; obvious and dedicated focus in a specific field (for instance, RAing for a prof + leadership on a secondary journal + a clinic/internship all in the same area, especially if it was one that we didn't see a lot).

That said, I'd say your application is the kind that could easily land you where you've listed, but it's not a guarantee. So, like the poster I've quoted, I agree you should probably broaden your search a little, but you don't have to go wild and apply everywhere in the country. I agree with adding EDPA and CA3 into the mix. You might also want to consider CA4 and D.Md. I'm not sure how you feel about living in Baltimore (personally, I think it's a great city), but if you want to be near DC you should at least check out the judges located in Bethesda -- I knew people who clerked there while living in DC. You might also consider D.Mass for your first year out, assuming you're aiming to do a district court clerkship first. Personally, I hated living in Boston, but I ended up staying there an extra year after HLS for a job, and I gotta say, not having to worry about moving at the same time as studying for the bar was great.

How sure are we about the "except CADC" conventional wisdom? I was +1 DS/P and interviewed with a reasonably competitive D.C. Circuit judge (no Fed Soc). Granted, I didn't get the position. But the judge specifically remarked positively about my transcript, so at a minimum I'm assuming it was not out of the ordinary?

My sense is that it's primarily just a question of how you can break through to the attention of the judge. An email from a strong personal connection played that role for me. Maybe if you're relying on transcript alone you'd need something more, like +3 or +4 DS/P. That's just speculation.

With that said, my understanding is that Srinivasan is a legendary grade nut. I think it might not be much of an exaggeration to say he would only consider someone if they have one of the top ~10 transcripts at each of HYP. Which... okay. Maybe a few others on CADC are similar?

I think Srinivasan is even more selective than that—from what I can tell he’s comfortably the most grade-selective judge in the country. Most of his HLS clerks seem to be Fay/Sears/summa.

Out of curiosity, does Sri have any ideological requirements? Obviously, top conervatives go elsewhere (most of the time), but does he want certain types of liberals? After all, the left wing of the legal profession is not homogenious at all.

[Anonymous User]

I think Srinivasan is even more selective than that—from what I can tell he’s comfortably the most grade-selective judge in the country. Most of his HLS clerks seem to be Fay/Sears/summa.

Out of curiosity, does Sri have any ideological requirements? Obviously, top conervatives go elsewhere (most of the time), but does he want certain types of liberals? After all, the left wing of the legal profession is not homogenious at all.

For more information on the types of clerks Sri can easily get: https://www.law.virginia.edu/news/20220 ... challenges

[Anonymous User]

Idk if I would say this is an "unremarkable application." So long as you keep the 1:1 DS and P ratio and the rest H, you have a decently strong application for all those courts except CADC. Still, I would apply slightly broader if I were you—add in Third Circuit for sure.

Agreed. Those grades are magna range -- they make you competitive for everything except probably CADC (unless you have a Fed Soc hook for that). They would certainly have been enough to get you a close look from the clerks in my 9th circuit chambers (which I know is not on your list, but I suspect is similar to non-feeders a lot of the places you're looking). In terms of actually getting us to put you in front of the judge -- not to mention getting the judge to decide to interview you -- in my chambers no law review would hurt, but could be compensated for by either 1) a call from a prof, or 2) some other interesting/impressive extracurriculars. Ames semi-finalist or above would be one obvious thing, though I assume you would've mentioned that if you had it. Other things that I saw work: notable public interest dedication; obvious and dedicated focus in a specific field (for instance, RAing for a prof + leadership on a secondary journal + a clinic/internship all in the same area, especially if it was one that we didn't see a lot).

That said, I'd say your application is the kind that could easily land you where you've listed, but it's not a guarantee. So, like the poster I've quoted, I agree you should probably broaden your search a little, but you don't have to go wild and apply everywhere in the country. I agree with adding EDPA and CA3 into the mix. You might also want to consider CA4 and D.Md. I'm not sure how you feel about living in Baltimore (personally, I think it's a great city), but if you want to be near DC you should at least check out the judges located in Bethesda -- I knew people who clerked there while living in DC. You might also consider D.Mass for your first year out, assuming you're aiming to do a district court clerkship first. Personally, I hated living in Boston, but I ended up staying there an extra year after HLS for a job, and I gotta say, not having to worry about moving at the same time as studying for the bar was great.

How sure are we about the "except CADC" conventional wisdom? I was +1 DS/P and interviewed with a reasonably competitive D.C. Circuit judge (no Fed Soc). Granted, I didn't get the position. But the judge specifically remarked positively about my transcript, so at a minimum I'm assuming it was not out of the ordinary?

My sense is that it's primarily just a question of how you can break through to the attention of the judge. An email from a strong personal connection played that role for me. Maybe if you're relying on transcript alone you'd need something more, like +3 or +4 DS/P. That's just speculation.

With that said, my understanding is that Srinivasan is a legendary grade nut. I think it might not be much of an exaggeration to say he would only consider someone if they have one of the top ~10 transcripts at each of HYP. Which... okay. Maybe a few others on CADC are similar?

I think Srinivasan is even more selective than that—from what I can tell he’s comfortably the most grade-selective judge in the country. Most of his HLS clerks seem to be Fay/Sears/summa.

Out of curiosity, does Sri have any ideological requirements? Obviously, top conervatives go elsewhere (most of the time), but does he want certain types of liberals? After all, the left wing of the legal profession is not homogenious at all.

Not that I can tell. He usually feeds to the center of SCOTUS (Kagan, Roberts, Kavanaugh).

[Anonymous User]

Applying for 2023/2024. Do I have any shot at NDIL/EDNY/SDNY or CA2/CA7? Assuming CA9/CADC/DDC are out

HLS with 1 DS, 2P, everything else H's, including fed courts and admin. Will have strong recs but not from power recommenders + secondary journal masthead roles + RA positions. Strong narrative abt interest in a specific, heavily debated area of law (clinic + pre-JD work experience + 1L position + DS in associated black letter class)

[Anonymous User]

Applying for 2023/2024. Do I have any shot at NDIL/EDNY/SDNY or CA2/CA7? Assuming CA9/CADC/DDC are out

HLS with 1 DS, 2P, everything else H's, including fed courts and admin. Will have strong recs but not from power recommenders + secondary journal masthead roles + RA positions. Strong narrative abt interest in a specific, heavily debated area of law (clinic + pre-JD work experience + 1L position + DS in associated black letter class)

Yes, you have a shot at NDIL/EDNY/SDNY and potentially CA7 but probably not CA2. So much of it is luck and timing. People with better stats than you get rejected and people with worse stats than you get these clerkships or even more competitive ones. Just apply broadly and don't emotionally invest in any one specific court or judge.

[Anonymous User]

Applying for 2023/2024. Do I have any shot at NDIL/EDNY/SDNY or CA2/CA7? Assuming CA9/CADC/DDC are out

HLS with 1 DS, 2P, everything else H's, including fed courts and admin. Will have strong recs but not from power recommenders + secondary journal masthead roles + RA positions. Strong narrative abt interest in a specific, heavily debated area of law (clinic + pre-JD work experience + 1L position + DS in associated black letter class)

Yes, you have a shot at NDIL/EDNY/SDNY and potentially CA7 but probably not CA2. So much of it is luck and timing. People with better stats than you get rejected and people with worse stats than you get these clerkships or even more competitive ones. Just apply broadly and don't emotionally invest in any one specific court or judge.

Sounds good! Definitely will not be investing too much emotional energy in specific judges, I'm way too burnt out for that sort of action. Am I correct in assuming that DDC is off the table? Also - are there any circuits I should consider supplementing my list with?

[Anonymous User]

Applying for 2023/2024. Do I have any shot at NDIL/EDNY/SDNY or CA2/CA7? Assuming CA9/CADC/DDC are out

HLS with 1 DS, 2P, everything else H's, including fed courts and admin. Will have strong recs but not from power recommenders + secondary journal masthead roles + RA positions. Strong narrative abt interest in a specific, heavily debated area of law (clinic + pre-JD work experience + 1L position + DS in associated black letter class)

Yes, you have a shot at NDIL/EDNY/SDNY and potentially CA7 but probably not CA2. So much of it is luck and timing. People with better stats than you get rejected and people with worse stats than you get these clerkships or even more competitive ones. Just apply broadly and don't emotionally invest in any one specific court or judge.

Sounds good! Definitely will not be investing too much emotional energy in specific judges, I'm way too burnt out for that sort of action. Am I correct in assuming that DDC is off the table? Also - are there any circuits I should consider supplementing my list with?

DDC is not categorically off the table but some of the super competitive folks (e.g., Boasberg) probably are. Apply to all the circuits except 2nd and DC. (Even those you could apply to, but it'll be more of a long shot.)

[Anonymous User]

Burnt out?

[Anonymous User]

Look there’s some over-gatekeeping going on in these threads re: grades. You look at TLS too much and you’ll think every EDNY / SDNY / 2 / 9 / DC / DDC / NDCal / NDIL / urban 7 / noteworthy 3 judge in the country needs you to be magna from HLS but it’s just not true. But then again it’s hard to tell you exactly where the soft spots are. So just apply widely.

The “which circuits” question is a little silly—which cities do you want to preference? Is New England cool to you? Do 1. Is Atlanta or Birmingham? Do 11. Circuits are huge brah

[Anonymous User]

Burnt out?

law school is stressful sometimes

[Anonymous User]

Applying for 2023/2024. Do I have any shot at NDIL/EDNY/SDNY or CA2/CA7? Assuming CA9/CADC/DDC are out

HLS with 1 DS, 2P, everything else H's, including fed courts and admin. Will have strong recs but not from power recommenders + secondary journal masthead roles + RA positions. Strong narrative abt interest in a specific, heavily debated area of law (clinic + pre-JD work experience + 1L position + DS in associated black letter class)

Yes, you have a shot at NDIL/EDNY/SDNY and potentially CA7 but probably not CA2. So much of it is luck and timing. People with better stats than you get rejected and people with worse stats than you get these clerkships or even more competitive ones. Just apply broadly and don't emotionally invest in any one specific court or judge.

Sounds good! Definitely will not be investing too much emotional energy in specific judges, I'm way too burnt out for that sort of action. Am I correct in assuming that DDC is off the table? Also - are there any circuits I should consider supplementing my list with?

Just apply broadly across all the judges you’re interested in all the circuits—there’s no reason not to if you’re geographically flexible. Also, CA9 generally isn’t more selective than CA2 or CA7 (and it’s generally less selective than CA2 at this point imo), and if you’re interested in working there, you should apply.

[Anonymous User]

What is Katsas looking for in clerks?

[Anonymous User]

What is Katsas looking for in clerks?

Conservatives with another clerkship, recommendation from that judge, a recommendation from professors he respects, top grades. He wants clerks that are extremely likely to be selected for SCOTUS.

[Anonymous User]

What is Katsas looking for in clerks?

Conservatives with another clerkship, recommendation from that judge, a recommendation from professors he respects, top grades. He wants clerks that are extremely likely to be selected for SCOTUS.

This seems dead on to me.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone else get that Judge Cote email?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone else get that Judge Cote email?

updates?

[Anonymous User]

It doesn't seem like Pillard has posted on OSCAR. Is she hiring this year?

[TAR111]

I’m an alumni applicant getting kind of antsy. I have done only one interview so far with a second scheduled for later this week. Does anyone know if judges tend to stick to the plan even for alumni, or am I in bad shape?

[Anonymous User]

Since this thread seems to have turned into H’s unofficial clerkship committee, how far can good to very good grades alone take me (~1:4 P:DS ratio over 3 years) with absolutely no extracurriculars—no law review, no secondary journal, no RA/TA, no moot court, no clubs, no real connection with any professors outside of doing fine in class. (I have multiple young kids whose schools were closed for a year and a half cause of covid, so I wasn’t in a position to do much, and by the time it was over it just felt like it was too late). Just wondering from those who have been inside the hiring process how much the lack of anything outside of class will screw me, and who it might be worth applying to. would waiting a a year or two soften the lack of extracurriculars?

[Anonymous User]

Since this thread seems to have turned into H’s unofficial clerkship committee, how far can good to very good grades alone take me (~1:4 P:DS ratio over 3 years) with absolutely no extracurriculars—no law review, no secondary journal, no RA/TA, no moot court, no clubs, no real connection with any professors outside of doing fine in class. (I have multiple young kids whose schools were closed for a year and a half cause of covid, so I wasn’t in a position to do much, and by the time it was over it just felt like it was too late). Just wondering from those who have been inside the hiring process how much the lack of anything outside of class will screw me, and who it might be worth applying to. would waiting a a year or two soften the lack of extracurriculars?

I hope your recommenders explained in your letters? I don’t think it matters nearly enough to delay, some judges might care, I think most won’t (esp in the circumstances). Plenty of students do fine with nothing but journal.

[Anonymous User]

Since this thread seems to have turned into H’s unofficial clerkship committee, how far can good to very good grades alone take me (~1:4 P:DS ratio over 3 years) with absolutely no extracurriculars—no law review, no secondary journal, no RA/TA, no moot court, no clubs, no real connection with any professors outside of doing fine in class. (I have multiple young kids whose schools were closed for a year and a half cause of covid, so I wasn’t in a position to do much, and by the time it was over it just felt like it was too late). Just wondering from those who have been inside the hiring process how much the lack of anything outside of class will screw me, and who it might be worth applying to. would waiting a a year or two soften the lack of extracurriculars?

No journal and no RA'ing or TA'ing make this very challenging. Did you take at least 2 courses with the same professor and do well in both of those classes, and does that professor have an actual impression of you beyond your exam?

[Anonymous User]

Since this thread seems to have turned into H’s unofficial clerkship committee, how far can good to very good grades alone take me (~1:4 P:DS ratio over 3 years) with absolutely no extracurriculars—no law review, no secondary journal, no RA/TA, no moot court, no clubs, no real connection with any professors outside of doing fine in class. (I have multiple young kids whose schools were closed for a year and a half cause of covid, so I wasn’t in a position to do much, and by the time it was over it just felt like it was too late). Just wondering from those who have been inside the hiring process how much the lack of anything outside of class will screw me, and who it might be worth applying to. would waiting a a year or two soften the lack of extracurriculars?

Depends entirely on the judge. With the judges I clerked for (D. Ct./CoA judges in mid-size metropolitan areas), the grades would have piqued our interest but we would need some kind of indicator that you were capable of working hard and could work well with others. Just having good grades suggests being antisocial and/or coasting through law school on raw intelligence. Seems like you have good reasons for not being involved, but you would need to have something else in your application that shows that you're capable of working and that you're pleasant to work with. Strong LoRs can definitely fill that gap, but given your statement that you don't have connections with professors, that seems unlikely. Or you could have something else on your resume that checks those boxes (i.e. solid work experience pre-law school). Barring something like that, it would have been a pass. But my judges (particularly my D. Ct. judge) were of the mind that after a certain level of academic ability is shown, fit is all that matters. I think there are plenty of more academically focused judges out there who wouldn't care as much about weak LoRs or a lack of extracurriculars.

[Anonymous User]

It doesn't seem like Pillard has posted on OSCAR. Is she hiring this year?

Bump

[Anonymous User]

Since this thread seems to have turned into H’s unofficial clerkship committee, how far can good to very good grades alone take me (~1:4 P:DS ratio over 3 years) with absolutely no extracurriculars—no law review, no secondary journal, no RA/TA, no moot court, no clubs, no real connection with any professors outside of doing fine in class. (I have multiple young kids whose schools were closed for a year and a half cause of covid, so I wasn’t in a position to do much, and by the time it was over it just felt like it was too late). Just wondering from those who have been inside the hiring process how much the lack of anything outside of class will screw me, and who it might be worth applying to. would waiting a a year or two soften the lack of extracurriculars?

Depends entirely on the judge. With the judges I clerked for (D. Ct./CoA judges in mid-size metropolitan areas), the grades would have piqued our interest but we would need some kind of indicator that you were capable of working hard and could work well with others. Just having good grades suggests being antisocial and/or coasting through law school on raw intelligence. Seems like you have good reasons for not being involved, but you would need to have something else in your application that shows that you're capable of working and that you're pleasant to work with. Strong LoRs can definitely fill that gap, but given your statement that you don't have connections with professors, that seems unlikely. Or you could have something else on your resume that checks those boxes (i.e. solid work experience pre-law school). Barring something like that, it would have been a pass. But my judges (particularly my D. Ct. judge) were of the mind that after a certain level of academic ability is shown, fit is all that matters. I think there are plenty of more academically focused judges out there who wouldn't care as much about weak LoRs or a lack of extracurriculars.

OP here, thanks for this reply (and to the others as well). Very helpful, as I wasn't thinking about the anti-social/hard to work with concerns, and I'm pretty sure I can address those issues pretty well with prior law school experience (and especially if I get to an interview). Thanks.