2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread Forum

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:12 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:45 am
Is it appropriate to call chambers directly to see if they are accepting applications for 2023-24? My Clerkship Office does not provide the information.
I’m interested in this too
If they're taking apps for 2022-23, you can just note that you'd also be interested in 2023-24 in a cover letter. My school's clerkship manual says anonymous phone calls to chambers can be appropriate, but I'd use them as a last resort, mostly for judges not on OSCAR.

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu May 06, 2021 2:13 pm

I'm currently a first year at a v25 in lit. To me it makes sense to soak up as much experience as I can and then clerk starting in Fall 2023. I'm just not sure if I'm qualified? My t14 1L grades were median and I graduated just over a 3.5—though I took doctrinals courses every semester instead of cushioning with a bunch of basket weaving law seminars. Am I totally out of the running for a Federal District court clerkship? I'm not looking to go to a feeder judge or SDNY

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu May 06, 2021 10:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 2:13 pm
I'm currently a first year at a v25 in lit. To me it makes sense to soak up as much experience as I can and then clerk starting in Fall 2023. I'm just not sure if I'm qualified? My t14 1L grades were median and I graduated just over a 3.5—though I took doctrinals courses every semester instead of cushioning with a bunch of basket weaving law seminars. Am I totally out of the running for a Federal District court clerkship? I'm not looking to go to a feeder judge or SDNY
I would say you're not completely out of the running for a district court clerkship if you're willing to apply very broadly (in terms of 1 vs. 2 years and geography). And you have work experience which a lot of judges like. I know people at my law school who had ~3.5 w/o LR get an interview b/c a professor called the judge they applied to -- if you can reach out to your recommenders that might help.

I applied with a 3.6+LR+URM (mentioned in cover letter) from a T10 as a rising 3L on the plan and got 3 interview requests within the first week of the plan opening. But I also did over 100+ apps.

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:17 pm

Any movement?

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:17 pm
Any movement?
For the 11th Circuit, I know Lagoa and Branch have made offers.

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:13 pm

CLS Rising 3L with ~3.8 but no real connections checking in - shooting my shot at 2nd C and SDNY/EDNY for 2023/2024 - will see how this goes but not that optimistic given what I've read on this forum lol.

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:13 pm
CLS Rising 3L with ~3.8 but no real connections checking in - shooting my shot at 2nd C and SDNY/EDNY for 2023/2024 - will see how this goes but not that optimistic given what I've read on this forum lol.
How does your 1L compare to your 2L? I wouldn't totally count yourself out yet.

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:18 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:13 pm
CLS Rising 3L with ~3.8 but no real connections checking in - shooting my shot at 2nd C and SDNY/EDNY for 2023/2024 - will see how this goes but not that optimistic given what I've read on this forum lol.
How does your 1L compare to your 2L? I wouldn't totally count yourself out yet.
High Stone 1L (3.67) & Kent 2L basically taken all black letters, mostly lack of good prof connects is the problem due to zoom law and laziness

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:44 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:18 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:13 pm
CLS Rising 3L with ~3.8 but no real connections checking in - shooting my shot at 2nd C and SDNY/EDNY for 2023/2024 - will see how this goes but not that optimistic given what I've read on this forum lol.
How does your 1L compare to your 2L? I wouldn't totally count yourself out yet.
High Stone 1L (3.67) & Kent 2L basically taken all black letters, mostly lack of good prof connects is the problem due to zoom law and laziness
Grades are probably a hair on the low side, but still in the right range. I agree that your lack of connection to profs may sting a bit. However, not all judges place a ton of reliance on professor recs. Pulling for you!!

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by GoneSouth » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:46 am

:D
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:13 pm
CLS Rising 3L with ~3.8 but no real connections checking in - shooting my shot at 2nd C and SDNY/EDNY for 2023/2024 - will see how this goes but not that optimistic given what I've read on this forum lol.
I know several CLS students with lower grade than this that have gotten SDNY/EDNY clerkships. Even if you don’t get something this summer, you’ll have a good shot next year when you’re not stuck with the plan timeline and can get your app in front of judges when they’re not looking at 300 others at the same time.

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:56 am

What kind of Circuit would 1 DS, 3 P from HLS be ok for? Assuming most of 9 and all of DC out of the question, as well as the competitive 2’s.

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:56 am
What kind of Circuit would 1 DS, 3 P from HLS be ok for? Assuming most of 9 and all of DC out of the question, as well as the competitive 2’s.
"What kind of Circuit" is the wrong question—it has much more to do with what individual judges prioritize and in some cases what local ties, if any, you have. It's probably safe to not waste time applying to the super well-known names on any circuit. One option is to try to find judges who prioritize things other than grades, but my advice is to not spend time doing that, either, and just apply extremely broadly. With roughly similar grades I got interviews with maybe 5% of circuit judges I applied to. Some of those 5% (or whatever) were judges with good reputations in desirable locations on CA1/2/3/4/9, yet there were many, many judges on 6/7/10/11 I never heard from despite personalized cover letters, outreach, and local ties.

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:56 am
What kind of Circuit would 1 DS, 3 P from HLS be ok for? Assuming most of 9 and all of DC out of the question, as well as the competitive 2’s.
I would apply very widely if you really want to clerk and only at the federal appellate level. Had similar grades from HLS (2 DS/4P) last year. No interview bites from ~50 circuit judges—all appointed by Democrats for whatever that is worth. A few district, though. (Granted, some people do land e.g. 2d Circuit clerkships with lower grades than yours, so it's worth at least sending in an app to anyone you'd be interested in working for).

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Pandain01 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:48 pm

What is everyone putting as "references." Just your professors who you asked LORs for? Previous actual work bosses?

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:15 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:56 am
What kind of Circuit would 1 DS, 3 P from HLS be ok for? Assuming most of 9 and all of DC out of the question, as well as the competitive 2’s.
"What kind of Circuit" is the wrong question—it has much more to do with what individual judges prioritize and in some cases what local ties, if any, you have. It's probably safe to not waste time applying to the super well-known names on any circuit. One option is to try to find judges who prioritize things other than grades, but my advice is to not spend time doing that, either, and just apply extremely broadly. With roughly similar grades I got interviews with maybe 5% of circuit judges I applied to. Some of those 5% (or whatever) were judges with good reputations in desirable locations on CA1/2/3/4/9, yet there were many, many judges on 6/7/10/11 I never heard from despite personalized cover letters, outreach, and local ties.
Unless you're hitting the OSCAR max, I don't think any app is "wasting time" unless it's to e.g. a feeder, weird things happen. But 100% (a) apply extremely broadly and (b) circuit != grade selectivity.

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:30 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:15 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:56 am
What kind of Circuit would 1 DS, 3 P from HLS be ok for? Assuming most of 9 and all of DC out of the question, as well as the competitive 2’s.
"What kind of Circuit" is the wrong question—it has much more to do with what individual judges prioritize and in some cases what local ties, if any, you have. It's probably safe to not waste time applying to the super well-known names on any circuit. One option is to try to find judges who prioritize things other than grades, but my advice is to not spend time doing that, either, and just apply extremely broadly. With roughly similar grades I got interviews with maybe 5% of circuit judges I applied to. Some of those 5% (or whatever) were judges with good reputations in desirable locations on CA1/2/3/4/9, yet there were many, many judges on 6/7/10/11 I never heard from despite personalized cover letters, outreach, and local ties.
Unless you're hitting the OSCAR max, I don't think any app is "wasting time" unless it's to e.g. a feeder, weird things happen. But 100% (a) apply extremely broadly and (b) circuit != grade selectivity.
I'm the anon who responded above and you're right. In retrospect I at least should have said "feeders who primarily care about top grades." Plenty of well-known judges, even some feeders, don't fall into that category and are worth applying to unless (and even if) you hit your OSCAR max. You never know what will happen.

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:32 pm

GoneSouth wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:46 am
:D
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:13 pm
CLS Rising 3L with ~3.8 but no real connections checking in - shooting my shot at 2nd C and SDNY/EDNY for 2023/2024 - will see how this goes but not that optimistic given what I've read on this forum lol.
I know several CLS students with lower grade than this that have gotten SDNY/EDNY clerkships. Even if you don’t get something this summer, you’ll have a good shot next year when you’re not stuck with the plan timeline and can get your app in front of judges when they’re not looking at 300 others at the same time.
CLS alum chat: my sense is that you can get SDNY/EDNY by either the 1L Kent + Law Review route or the 2L/3L Kent + fantastic recommenders route.
Elite recommenders (will pick up phone AND are taken seriously): Metzger, Merrill, Richman, Waxman, Strauss, Greene, Lynch, Huang, Pozens (both). Tend to be harder to get.
Good recommenders (will pick up the phone): all the younger people (i.e. Glass, Funk, etc), Schechtman, Briffault, Mann, Gordon, Graetz,

This ignores the FedSoc crowd, who apparently is run by Hamburger.
TL;DR -- get people who will call for you.

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:32 pm
GoneSouth wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:46 am
:D
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:13 pm
CLS Rising 3L with ~3.8 but no real connections checking in - shooting my shot at 2nd C and SDNY/EDNY for 2023/2024 - will see how this goes but not that optimistic given what I've read on this forum lol.
I know several CLS students with lower grade than this that have gotten SDNY/EDNY clerkships. Even if you don’t get something this summer, you’ll have a good shot next year when you’re not stuck with the plan timeline and can get your app in front of judges when they’re not looking at 300 others at the same time.
CLS alum chat: my sense is that you can get SDNY/EDNY by either the 1L Kent + Law Review route or the 2L/3L Kent + fantastic recommenders route.
Elite recommenders (will pick up phone AND are taken seriously): Metzger, Merrill, Richman, Waxman, Strauss, Greene, Lynch, Huang, Pozens (both). Tend to be harder to get.
Good recommenders (will pick up the phone): all the younger people (i.e. Glass, Funk, etc), Schechtman, Briffault, Mann, Gordon, Graetz,

This ignores the FedSoc crowd, who apparently is run by Hamburger.
TL;DR -- get people who will call for you.
CLS anon too - all this seems accurate to me. One note about the 2L/3L Kent route: you have to take real classes for this to work. No judge on SDNY is going to be impressed by an attempt to cheese getting Kent by taking all seminars.

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:32 pm
GoneSouth wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:46 am
:D
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:13 pm
CLS Rising 3L with ~3.8 but no real connections checking in - shooting my shot at 2nd C and SDNY/EDNY for 2023/2024 - will see how this goes but not that optimistic given what I've read on this forum lol.
I know several CLS students with lower grade than this that have gotten SDNY/EDNY clerkships. Even if you don’t get something this summer, you’ll have a good shot next year when you’re not stuck with the plan timeline and can get your app in front of judges when they’re not looking at 300 others at the same time.
CLS alum chat: my sense is that you can get SDNY/EDNY by either the 1L Kent + Law Review route or the 2L/3L Kent + fantastic recommenders route.
Elite recommenders (will pick up phone AND are taken seriously): Metzger, Merrill, Richman, Waxman, Strauss, Greene, Lynch, Huang, Pozens (both). Tend to be harder to get.
Good recommenders (will pick up the phone): all the younger people (i.e. Glass, Funk, etc), Schechtman, Briffault, Mann, Gordon, Graetz,

This ignores the FedSoc crowd, who apparently is run by Hamburger.
TL;DR -- get people who will call for you.
Really solid format...anyone know what the HYS analogous buckets would be?

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:32 pm
GoneSouth wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:46 am
:D
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:13 pm
CLS Rising 3L with ~3.8 but no real connections checking in - shooting my shot at 2nd C and SDNY/EDNY for 2023/2024 - will see how this goes but not that optimistic given what I've read on this forum lol.
I know several CLS students with lower grade than this that have gotten SDNY/EDNY clerkships. Even if you don’t get something this summer, you’ll have a good shot next year when you’re not stuck with the plan timeline and can get your app in front of judges when they’re not looking at 300 others at the same time.
CLS alum chat: my sense is that you can get SDNY/EDNY by either the 1L Kent + Law Review route or the 2L/3L Kent + fantastic recommenders route.
Elite recommenders (will pick up phone AND are taken seriously): Metzger, Merrill, Richman, Waxman, Strauss, Greene, Lynch, Huang, Pozens (both). Tend to be harder to get.
Good recommenders (will pick up the phone): all the younger people (i.e. Glass, Funk, etc), Schechtman, Briffault, Mann, Gordon, Graetz,

This ignores the FedSoc crowd, who apparently is run by Hamburger.
TL;DR -- get people who will call for you.
Another CLS alum note to add that Richman is as good as it gets. He knows almost all the judges in New York and is probably most successful in placing CLS students in clerkships. The others help too, but Richman is probably the most proactive and influential.

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:32 pm

One of the above CLS posters - so I'm in the high-stone 1L, 2L Kent, Sec. journal with all black-letters but not v useful recommenders. Let's say I strike out this go-around, is the move to find a 3L class to get to know one of these recs or is there any chance you can still luck out?

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:44 pm
This ignores the FedSoc crowd, who apparently is run by Hamburger.
This is wrong.
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:44 pm
One note about the 2L/3L Kent route: you have to take real classes for this to work. No judge on SDNY is going to be impressed by an attempt to cheese getting Kent by taking all seminars.
This is right.

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:25 pm

CLS outline anon.
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:50 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:44 pm
This ignores the FedSoc crowd, who apparently is run by Hamburger.
This is wrong.
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:44 pm
One note about the 2L/3L Kent route: you have to take real classes for this to work. No judge on SDNY is going to be impressed by an attempt to cheese getting Kent by taking all seminars.
This is right.
Not a FedSoc guy; FedSoc acquaintances tell me that 1.) Hamburger will very often call for them and 2.) Hamburger is very aware of openings (i.e. Hamburger has told friends "Hey, apply to this guy tomorrow and I will call him for you.)
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:32 pm
One of the above CLS posters - so I'm in the high-stone 1L, 2L Kent, Sec. journal with all black-letters but not v useful recommenders. Let's say I strike out this go-around, is the move to find a 3L class to get to know one of these recs or is there any chance you can still luck out?
Do not see how these are exclusives at all. Possible but very unlikely you luck out; you should try to find a class with them. Issue is many of the really powerful people (outside Richman, Waxman, Metzger, Strauss) don't really teach outside 1L classes.

Agree with anon who recommends Richman, he is the most well-connected guy for sure. Maybe a Metzger rec would mean more for a super-super-selective judge, but if I could only have one from that list it would be Richman. He's really plugged in and definitely goes to bat for people (multiple calls, strategizing, etc). He is much more useful than our clerkship dean.

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:25 pm
CLS outline anon.
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:50 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:44 pm
This ignores the FedSoc crowd, who apparently is run by Hamburger.
This is wrong.
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:44 pm
One note about the 2L/3L Kent route: you have to take real classes for this to work. No judge on SDNY is going to be impressed by an attempt to cheese getting Kent by taking all seminars.
This is right.
Not a FedSoc guy; FedSoc acquaintances tell me that 1.) Hamburger will very often call for them and 2.) Hamburger is very aware of openings (i.e. Hamburger has told friends "Hey, apply to this guy tomorrow and I will call him for you.)
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:32 pm
One of the above CLS posters - so I'm in the high-stone 1L, 2L Kent, Sec. journal with all black-letters but not v useful recommenders. Let's say I strike out this go-around, is the move to find a 3L class to get to know one of these recs or is there any chance you can still luck out?
Do not see how these are exclusives at all. Possible but very unlikely you luck out; you should try to find a class with them. Issue is many of the really powerful people (outside Richman, Waxman, Metzger, Strauss) don't really teach outside 1L classes.

Agree with anon who recommends Richman, he is the most well-connected guy for sure. Maybe a Metzger rec would mean more for a super-super-selective judge, but if I could only have one from that list it would be Richman. He's really plugged in and definitely goes to bat for people (multiple calls, strategizing, etc). He is much more useful than our clerkship dean.
Didn't mean to make it sound one or the other - was more asking if searching one of these profs out is basically a necessary condition to getting SDNY/EDNY/2nd with a 3.8. It sounds like it is so good to know - I just wish our clerkship office was a bit more transparent with quality of recommenders and competitiveness . . . but that's life

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Re: 2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:32 pm
One of the above CLS posters - so I'm in the high-stone 1L, 2L Kent, Sec. journal with all black-letters but not v useful recommenders. Let's say I strike out this go-around, is the move to find a 3L class to get to know one of these recs or is there any chance you can still luck out?
I think the move is to go take a class with one of these profs and do well. It isn't either a necessary nor a sufficient condition for SDNY/EDNY, but it would certainly be helpful.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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