2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread Forum

[pkeller]

Hi! I am starting the clerkship process (current 2L applying on plan), but am first gen and at a loss at how to start or even think about what judges to apply to. I'm top 5 at MVP and have solid work experience before law school. I interned for a judge on D.D.C, and will be at a firm in D.C. this summer. I'd like to do circuit and district and am pretty geographically flexible. Where do you all think I've got a shot and what circuits/judges do you think I should target?

Your school should have a clerkship office that can help you. At least if you're at UVA. I'd be surprised if Michigan and Penn don't as well.

[Anonymous User]

Hi! I am starting the clerkship process (current 2L applying on plan), but am first gen and at a loss at how to start or even think about what judges to apply to. I'm top 5 at MVP and have solid work experience before law school. I interned for a judge on D.D.C, and will be at a firm in D.C. this summer. I'd like to do circuit and district and am pretty geographically flexible. Where do you all think I've got a shot and what circuits/judges do you think I should target?

Your school should have a clerkship office that can help you. At least if you're at UVA. I'd be surprised if Michigan and Penn don't as well.

If you are top 5 at MVP, walk into the clerkship office and demand a meeting, they should be pushing you toward the judges they know well (every school has a few, even if they are not feeders). Start reaching out to professors for recs and calls ASAP too, you've got the grades to make calls to their friends and even judges who aren't a pretty reasonable ask. You've probably got geographic preferences, even if you don't think you do, so start there.

[Anonymous User]

Hi! I am starting the clerkship process (current 2L applying on plan), but am first gen and at a loss at how to start or even think about what judges to apply to. I'm top 5 at MVP and have solid work experience before law school. I interned for a judge on D.D.C, and will be at a firm in D.C. this summer. I'd like to do circuit and district and am pretty geographically flexible. Where do you all think I've got a shot and what circuits/judges do you think I should target?

Your school should have a clerkship office that can help you. At least if you're at UVA. I'd be surprised if Michigan and Penn don't as well.

I don't think you're at Penn (since we don't know our rank) but if you are, do NOT use Chris to get your targets or get advice because she's well-meaning but it's bad advice. Go to the profs on the clerkship committee, if you've had one of them already, or ask the 3Ls which of your past profs you should have conversations with. For example, Burbank, Yoo, & Lee have all been on the clerkship committee in the past and will give you (varying degrees of) straight shooter advice. Most professors will ask to see your transcript & resume if you ask them for clerkship advice, so be prepared for that.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks! My rank is "unofficial" but they sort of let me know. I've got to the clerkship office but they haven't been super helpful - they basically tell me to apply broadly, but don't get my hopes up. I guess I'm wondering if it's even worth it to apply to the big ones - like the D.C. Cir.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks! My rank is "unofficial" but they sort of let me know. I've got to the clerkship office but they haven't been super helpful - they basically tell me to apply broadly, but don't get my hopes up. I guess I'm wondering if it's even worth it to apply to the big ones - like the D.C. Cir.

You lose nothing by applying; it just depends on whether your professors are on board. I assume if you're that highly ranked, professors would be happy to help.

[Anonymous User]

Wallace has moved

[Anonymous User]

Thanks! My rank is "unofficial" but they sort of let me know. I've got to the clerkship office but they haven't been super helpful - they basically tell me to apply broadly, but don't get my hopes up. I guess I'm wondering if it's even worth it to apply to the big ones - like the D.C. Cir.

There’s no reason not to - you’re applying anyway, it doesn’t add more work for you. The only issue is bumping up against the 100 application limit on OSCAR. Chances are you won’t get a top clerkship only because the chances are bad for everyone (you have excellent qualifications so have a better shot than most), but let them reject you. There is absolutely no downside to applying unless/until you run out of OSCAR spots.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have any information about Dist. or COA clerkships in West Virginia? Has there been any movement, and if not, does anyone know when that will happen?

Also, what are my odds: I am #3 at a T3 law school, Managing editor of main journal, SBA President, EMLS President, pretty glowing recommendations, and experience internships with Va. Supreme Court and Western Dist. Of Virginia.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have any information about Dist. or COA clerkships in West Virginia? Has there been any movement, and if not, does anyone know when that will happen?

Also, what are my odds: I am #3 at a T3 law school, Managing editor of main journal, SBA President, EMLS President, pretty glowing recommendations, and experience internships with Va. Supreme Court and Western Dist. Of Virginia.

T3 as in top three, YHS/C? Extremely good chances of either district or COA.

[nixy]

Does anyone have any information about Dist. or COA clerkships in West Virginia? Has there been any movement, and if not, does anyone know when that will happen?

Also, what are my odds: I am #3 at a T3 law school, Managing editor of main journal, SBA President, EMLS President, pretty glowing recommendations, and experience internships with Va. Supreme Court and Western Dist. Of Virginia.

T3 as in top three, YHS/C? Extremely good chances of either district or COA.

I’m assuming they mean Tier 3, as HYS don’t rank students (and someone in that position wouldn’t have to ask).

T3 person, if you’re at West Virginia, someone in the district/circuit may well bite - find out from your CSO if there are alumni judges who like to hire the top local students.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have any information about Dist. or COA clerkships in West Virginia? Has there been any movement, and if not, does anyone know when that will happen?

Also, what are my odds: I am #3 at a T3 law school, Managing editor of main journal, SBA President, EMLS President, pretty glowing recommendations, and experience internships with Va. Supreme Court and Western Dist. Of Virginia.

T3 as in top three, YHS/C? Extremely good chances of either district or COA.

I’m assuming they mean Tier 3, as HYS don’t rank students (and someone in that position wouldn’t have to ask).

T3 person, if you’re at West Virginia, someone in the district/circuit may well bite - find out from your CSO if there are alumni judges who like to hire the top local students.

Thacker on the 4th Circuit prefers WV ties so you might be a good fit there - I believe she's accepting for 2023-24 now (though I don't know if she's filled them yet), so I'd shoot my shot if I were you. I've heard great things about her.

[lawschoolkid0122]

Does anyone have insight into Judge Cunningham’s (Fed. Cir.) hiring for the 2023-24 term?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have any information about Dist. or COA clerkships in West Virginia? Has there been any movement, and if not, does anyone know when that will happen?

Also, what are my odds: I am #3 at a T3 law school, Managing editor of main journal, SBA President, EMLS President, pretty glowing recommendations, and experience internships with Va. Supreme Court and Western Dist. Of Virginia.

T3 as in top three, YHS/C? Extremely good chances of either district or COA.

I’m assuming they mean Tier 3, as HYS don’t rank students (and someone in that position wouldn’t have to ask).

T3 person, if you’re at West Virginia, someone in the district/circuit may well bite - find out from your CSO if there are alumni judges who like to hire the top local students.

Oh, I see. In that case, since you asked for "odds," your chances of getting a federal clerkship from a tier 3 law school are slim to none, especially if you are not the valedictorian. Of course, there are always exceptions, but you didn't ask if it was "possible."

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have any information about Dist. or COA clerkships in West Virginia? Has there been any movement, and if not, does anyone know when that will happen?

Also, what are my odds: I am #3 at a T3 law school, Managing editor of main journal, SBA President, EMLS President, pretty glowing recommendations, and experience internships with Va. Supreme Court and Western Dist. Of Virginia.

T3 as in top three, YHS/C? Extremely good chances of either district or COA.

I’m assuming they mean Tier 3, as HYS don’t rank students (and someone in that position wouldn’t have to ask).

T3 person, if you’re at West Virginia, someone in the district/circuit may well bite - find out from your CSO if there are alumni judges who like to hire the top local students.

Oh, I see. In that case, since you asked for "odds," your chances of getting a federal clerkship from a tier 3 law school are slim to none, especially if you are not the valedictorian. Of course, there are always exceptions, but you didn't ask if it was "possible."

The top 3 people at my TTT/TTTT school consistently received federal clerkships for the past few years. The odds for a local person to get a federal clerkship can be more meaningful than some random 25% T14 grad in certain parts of the country.

If you have ties to WV (and perhaps attend WVUCOL), then you should look at the federal district courts in WV. Judge Thacker almost always hires 2 clerks with ties. You could be one of them.

[Anonymous User]

Hate to add to the annoying 'chance me's but I don't think H's clerkship office is really forthright about this (and we either don't have a clerkship committee of professors or it's too secretive for me to have found it.)

I've got 3DS/9H/2P so far (2L spring grades haven't come out yet obviously). My LORs should be good, none too spectacular but one has agreed to call a few judges for me. No law review, just secondary journal.

I definitely want to do two clerkships, one district and one COA. Geographically, I'd love to be in DC or the northeast, though I don't have strong ties to either beyond my upcoming 2L SA. How far beyond CA1/CA2/CADC and EDNY/SDNY/DDC/EDVA do I have to apply to feel fairly comfortable that I'll get a bite? (If the answer is 'this is an unremarkable application, apply to everywhere and everyone,' I understand and that's good feedback)

[Anonymous User]

Hate to add to the annoying 'chance me's but I don't think H's clerkship office is really forthright about this (and we either don't have a clerkship committee of professors or it's too secretive for me to have found it.)

I've got 3DS/9H/2P so far (2L spring grades haven't come out yet obviously). My LORs should be good, none too spectacular but one has agreed to call a few judges for me. No law review, just secondary journal.

I definitely want to do two clerkships, one district and one COA. Geographically, I'd love to be in DC or the northeast, though I don't have strong ties to either beyond my upcoming 2L SA. How far beyond CA1/CA2/CADC and EDNY/SDNY/DDC/EDVA do I have to apply to feel fairly comfortable that I'll get a bite? (If the answer is 'this is an unremarkable application, apply to everywhere and everyone,' I understand and that's good feedback)

Unremarkable application in the context you've created. If Fed Soc, good chances of being where you want, if not, less so.

[Anonymous User]

Hate to add to the annoying 'chance me's but I don't think H's clerkship office is really forthright about this (and we either don't have a clerkship committee of professors or it's too secretive for me to have found it.)

I've got 3DS/9H/2P so far (2L spring grades haven't come out yet obviously). My LORs should be good, none too spectacular but one has agreed to call a few judges for me. No law review, just secondary journal.

I definitely want to do two clerkships, one district and one COA. Geographically, I'd love to be in DC or the northeast, though I don't have strong ties to either beyond my upcoming 2L SA. How far beyond CA1/CA2/CADC and EDNY/SDNY/DDC/EDVA do I have to apply to feel fairly comfortable that I'll get a bite? (If the answer is 'this is an unremarkable application, apply to everywhere and everyone,' I understand and that's good feedback)

Idk if I would say this is an "unremarkable application." So long as you keep the 1:1 DS and P ratio and the rest H, you have a decently strong application for all those courts except CADC. Still, I would apply slightly broader if I were you—add in Third Circuit for sure.

[Saami]

Hate to add to the annoying 'chance me's but I don't think H's clerkship office is really forthright about this (and we either don't have a clerkship committee of professors or it's too secretive for me to have found it.)

I've got 3DS/9H/2P so far (2L spring grades haven't come out yet obviously). My LORs should be good, none too spectacular but one has agreed to call a few judges for me. No law review, just secondary journal.

I definitely want to do two clerkships, one district and one COA. Geographically, I'd love to be in DC or the northeast, though I don't have strong ties to either beyond my upcoming 2L SA. How far beyond CA1/CA2/CADC and EDNY/SDNY/DDC/EDVA do I have to apply to feel fairly comfortable that I'll get a bite? (If the answer is 'this is an unremarkable application, apply to everywhere and everyone,' I understand and that's good feedback)

Idk if I would say this is an "unremarkable application." So long as you keep the 1:1 DS and P ratio and the rest H, you have a decently strong application for all those courts except CADC. Still, I would apply slightly broader if I were you—add in Third Circuit for sure.

I'd also add EDPA into the district court mix, which would give OP a great chance at Third Circuit, I think. Though, I don't know how Harvard's grading system works or how judges interpret it.

[Anonymous User]

Hate to add to the annoying 'chance me's but I don't think H's clerkship office is really forthright about this (and we either don't have a clerkship committee of professors or it's too secretive for me to have found it.)

I've got 3DS/9H/2P so far (2L spring grades haven't come out yet obviously). My LORs should be good, none too spectacular but one has agreed to call a few judges for me. No law review, just secondary journal.

I definitely want to do two clerkships, one district and one COA. Geographically, I'd love to be in DC or the northeast, though I don't have strong ties to either beyond my upcoming 2L SA. How far beyond CA1/CA2/CADC and EDNY/SDNY/DDC/EDVA do I have to apply to feel fairly comfortable that I'll get a bite? (If the answer is 'this is an unremarkable application, apply to everywhere and everyone,' I understand and that's good feedback)

Idk if I would say this is an "unremarkable application." So long as you keep the 1:1 DS and P ratio and the rest H, you have a decently strong application for all those courts except CADC. Still, I would apply slightly broader if I were you—add in Third Circuit for sure.

Agreed. Those grades are magna range -- they make you competitive for everything except probably CADC (unless you have a Fed Soc hook for that). They would certainly have been enough to get you a close look from the clerks in my 9th circuit chambers (which I know is not on your list, but I suspect is similar to non-feeders a lot of the places you're looking). In terms of actually getting us to put you in front of the judge -- not to mention getting the judge to decide to interview you -- in my chambers no law review would hurt, but could be compensated for by either 1) a call from a prof, or 2) some other interesting/impressive extracurriculars. Ames semi-finalist or above would be one obvious thing, though I assume you would've mentioned that if you had it. Other things that I saw work: notable public interest dedication; obvious and dedicated focus in a specific field (for instance, RAing for a prof + leadership on a secondary journal + a clinic/internship all in the same area, especially if it was one that we didn't see a lot).

That said, I'd say your application is the kind that could easily land you where you've listed, but it's not a guarantee. So, like the poster I've quoted, I agree you should probably broaden your search a little, but you don't have to go wild and apply everywhere in the country. I agree with adding EDPA and CA3 into the mix. You might also want to consider CA4 and D.Md. I'm not sure how you feel about living in Baltimore (personally, I think it's a great city), but if you want to be near DC you should at least check out the judges located in Bethesda -- I knew people who clerked there while living in DC. You might also consider D.Mass for your first year out, assuming you're aiming to do a district court clerkship first. Personally, I hated living in Boston, but I ended up staying there an extra year after HLS for a job, and I gotta say, not having to worry about moving at the same time as studying for the bar was great.

[Anonymous User]

OP here! Not Fed Soc but I was an Ames semi (didn't want to mention it earlier because it felt a little too doxxy but what the hell). This is really helpful insight, I appreciate it. I'd definitely wondered how much Ames semis does on a clerkship resume - it was an amazing, rewarding experience but wasn't sure of what kind of cachet it carried (and I know it probably varies heavily one chambers to another).

Hate to add to the annoying 'chance me's but I don't think H's clerkship office is really forthright about this (and we either don't have a clerkship committee of professors or it's too secretive for me to have found it.)

I've got 3DS/9H/2P so far (2L spring grades haven't come out yet obviously). My LORs should be good, none too spectacular but one has agreed to call a few judges for me. No law review, just secondary journal.

I definitely want to do two clerkships, one district and one COA. Geographically, I'd love to be in DC or the northeast, though I don't have strong ties to either beyond my upcoming 2L SA. How far beyond CA1/CA2/CADC and EDNY/SDNY/DDC/EDVA do I have to apply to feel fairly comfortable that I'll get a bite? (If the answer is 'this is an unremarkable application, apply to everywhere and everyone,' I understand and that's good feedback)

Idk if I would say this is an "unremarkable application." So long as you keep the 1:1 DS and P ratio and the rest H, you have a decently strong application for all those courts except CADC. Still, I would apply slightly broader if I were you—add in Third Circuit for sure.

Agreed. Those grades are magna range -- they make you competitive for everything except probably CADC (unless you have a Fed Soc hook for that). They would certainly have been enough to get you a close look from the clerks in my 9th circuit chambers (which I know is not on your list, but I suspect is similar to non-feeders a lot of the places you're looking). In terms of actually getting us to put you in front of the judge -- not to mention getting the judge to decide to interview you -- in my chambers no law review would hurt, but could be compensated for by either 1) a call from a prof, or 2) some other interesting/impressive extracurriculars. Ames semi-finalist or above would be one obvious thing, though I assume you would've mentioned that if you had it. Other things that I saw work: notable public interest dedication; obvious and dedicated focus in a specific field (for instance, RAing for a prof + leadership on a secondary journal + a clinic/internship all in the same area, especially if it was one that we didn't see a lot).

That said, I'd say your application is the kind that could easily land you where you've listed, but it's not a guarantee. So, like the poster I've quoted, I agree you should probably broaden your search a little, but you don't have to go wild and apply everywhere in the country. I agree with adding EDPA and CA3 into the mix. You might also want to consider CA4 and D.Md. I'm not sure how you feel about living in Baltimore (personally, I think it's a great city), but if you want to be near DC you should at least check out the judges located in Bethesda -- I knew people who clerked there while living in DC. You might also consider D.Mass for your first year out, assuming you're aiming to do a district court clerkship first. Personally, I hated living in Boston, but I ended up staying there an extra year after HLS for a job, and I gotta say, not having to worry about moving at the same time as studying for the bar was great.

[Anonymous User]

SDNY/CA2 clerk (for two of the more selective judges on those courts). You probably wouldn’t be pulled by us, but not a bad app by any means. I would apply more broadly (at a bare minimum CA3 and CA4, D Mass, D Ct, D Md, DNJ, and EDPA) unless you have some strong reason not to, which it doesn’t seem you do. Lining up a circuit and district isn’t easy even for very strong applicants, especially if you want years, locations, etc. to be convenient, and it’s a numbers game.

[Anonymous User]

Floyd has finished hiring for 23

[Anonymous User]

Idk if I would say this is an "unremarkable application." So long as you keep the 1:1 DS and P ratio and the rest H, you have a decently strong application for all those courts except CADC. Still, I would apply slightly broader if I were you—add in Third Circuit for sure.

Agreed. Those grades are magna range -- they make you competitive for everything except probably CADC (unless you have a Fed Soc hook for that). They would certainly have been enough to get you a close look from the clerks in my 9th circuit chambers (which I know is not on your list, but I suspect is similar to non-feeders a lot of the places you're looking). In terms of actually getting us to put you in front of the judge -- not to mention getting the judge to decide to interview you -- in my chambers no law review would hurt, but could be compensated for by either 1) a call from a prof, or 2) some other interesting/impressive extracurriculars. Ames semi-finalist or above would be one obvious thing, though I assume you would've mentioned that if you had it. Other things that I saw work: notable public interest dedication; obvious and dedicated focus in a specific field (for instance, RAing for a prof + leadership on a secondary journal + a clinic/internship all in the same area, especially if it was one that we didn't see a lot).

That said, I'd say your application is the kind that could easily land you where you've listed, but it's not a guarantee. So, like the poster I've quoted, I agree you should probably broaden your search a little, but you don't have to go wild and apply everywhere in the country. I agree with adding EDPA and CA3 into the mix. You might also want to consider CA4 and D.Md. I'm not sure how you feel about living in Baltimore (personally, I think it's a great city), but if you want to be near DC you should at least check out the judges located in Bethesda -- I knew people who clerked there while living in DC. You might also consider D.Mass for your first year out, assuming you're aiming to do a district court clerkship first. Personally, I hated living in Boston, but I ended up staying there an extra year after HLS for a job, and I gotta say, not having to worry about moving at the same time as studying for the bar was great.

How sure are we about the "except CADC" conventional wisdom? I was +1 DS/P and interviewed with a reasonably competitive D.C. Circuit judge (no Fed Soc). Granted, I didn't get the position. But the judge specifically remarked positively about my transcript, so at a minimum I'm assuming it was not out of the ordinary?

My sense is that it's primarily just a question of how you can break through to the attention of the judge. An email from a strong personal connection played that role for me. Maybe if you're relying on transcript alone you'd need something more, like +3 or +4 DS/P. That's just speculation.

With that said, my understanding is that Srinivasan is a legendary grade nut. I think it might not be much of an exaggeration to say he would only consider someone if they have one of the top ~10 transcripts at each of HYP. Which... okay. Maybe a few others on CADC are similar?

[Anonymous User]

How sure are we about the "except CADC" conventional wisdom? I was +1 DS/P and interviewed with a reasonably competitive D.C. Circuit judge (no Fed Soc). Granted, I didn't get the position. But the judge specifically remarked positively about my transcript, so at a minimum I'm assuming it was not out of the ordinary?

My sense is that it's primarily just a question of how you can break through to the attention of the judge. An email from a strong personal connection played that role for me. Maybe if you're relying on transcript alone you'd need something more, like +3 or +4 DS/P. That's just speculation.

With that said, my understanding is that Srinivasan is a legendary grade nut. I think it might not be much of an exaggeration to say he would only consider someone if they have one of the top ~10 transcripts at each of HYP. Which... okay. Maybe a few others on CADC are similar?

That's mainly it. My CADC just was inundated with so many applications from the best of the best. When I was reviewing apps, I had no idea how I even got the position. If you are not the Fay Diploma winner, you likely need a call for most of the judges to be noticed from the pile. Wilkins does look for public service and outside just grades from top schools more than most, but he can still hire 'exceptional clerks.

That being said, some of the newer judges might hire differently, though I have not seen any evidence of it.

[Anonymous User]

Idk if I would say this is an "unremarkable application." So long as you keep the 1:1 DS and P ratio and the rest H, you have a decently strong application for all those courts except CADC. Still, I would apply slightly broader if I were you—add in Third Circuit for sure.

Agreed. Those grades are magna range -- they make you competitive for everything except probably CADC (unless you have a Fed Soc hook for that). They would certainly have been enough to get you a close look from the clerks in my 9th circuit chambers (which I know is not on your list, but I suspect is similar to non-feeders a lot of the places you're looking). In terms of actually getting us to put you in front of the judge -- not to mention getting the judge to decide to interview you -- in my chambers no law review would hurt, but could be compensated for by either 1) a call from a prof, or 2) some other interesting/impressive extracurriculars. Ames semi-finalist or above would be one obvious thing, though I assume you would've mentioned that if you had it. Other things that I saw work: notable public interest dedication; obvious and dedicated focus in a specific field (for instance, RAing for a prof + leadership on a secondary journal + a clinic/internship all in the same area, especially if it was one that we didn't see a lot).

That said, I'd say your application is the kind that could easily land you where you've listed, but it's not a guarantee. So, like the poster I've quoted, I agree you should probably broaden your search a little, but you don't have to go wild and apply everywhere in the country. I agree with adding EDPA and CA3 into the mix. You might also want to consider CA4 and D.Md. I'm not sure how you feel about living in Baltimore (personally, I think it's a great city), but if you want to be near DC you should at least check out the judges located in Bethesda -- I knew people who clerked there while living in DC. You might also consider D.Mass for your first year out, assuming you're aiming to do a district court clerkship first. Personally, I hated living in Boston, but I ended up staying there an extra year after HLS for a job, and I gotta say, not having to worry about moving at the same time as studying for the bar was great.

How sure are we about the "except CADC" conventional wisdom? I was +1 DS/P and interviewed with a reasonably competitive D.C. Circuit judge (no Fed Soc). Granted, I didn't get the position. But the judge specifically remarked positively about my transcript, so at a minimum I'm assuming it was not out of the ordinary?

My sense is that it's primarily just a question of how you can break through to the attention of the judge. An email from a strong personal connection played that role for me. Maybe if you're relying on transcript alone you'd need something more, like +3 or +4 DS/P. That's just speculation.

With that said, my understanding is that Srinivasan is a legendary grade nut. I think it might not be much of an exaggeration to say he would only consider someone if they have one of the top ~10 transcripts at each of HYP. Which... okay. Maybe a few others on CADC are similar?

It's not that barely magna + no LR isn't competitive for a CADC. It's more that it wouldn't be that weird for someone who is barely magna + no LR at Harvard to not get any bites at CADC.