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I'm in the top ten percent of my class, will doing an appellate clinic make me significantly more competitive or dramatically move the needle for COA clerkships?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:53 am

I'm in the top ten percent of my class, will doing an appellate clinic make me significantly more competitive or dramatically move the needle for COA clerkships?

Would be very helpful to know (1) what school (general range is fine), (2) what type of COA clerkships you'll be targeting, and (3) if you already have a district court clerkship.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:53 am

I'm in the top ten percent of my class, will doing an appellate clinic make me significantly more competitive or dramatically move the needle for COA clerkships?

No, unless the clinic director is someone who has great connections to COA judges and is willing to make call for students.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:53 am

will doing an appellate clinic make me significantly more competitive or dramatically move the needle for COA clerkships?

Probably not, but it will make you a better lawyer and give you some practical experience to lean on if/when you land a clerkship and are looking for subsequent employment.

Leif Erikson wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:11 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:53 am

I'm in the top ten percent of my class, will doing an appellate clinic make me significantly more competitive or dramatically move the needle for COA clerkships?

Would be very helpful to know (1) what school (general range is fine), (2) what type of COA clerkships you'll be targeting, and (3) if you already have a district court clerkship.

Original Anon here. T14, non-senior judges in most of the circuits, and no district court clerkship at present.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:31 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:53 am

will doing an appellate clinic make me significantly more competitive or dramatically move the needle for COA clerkships?

Probably not, but it will make you a better lawyer and give you some practical experience to lean on if/when you land a clerkship and are looking for subsequent employment.

Yeah, to expand on my earlier comment, an appellate clinic will probably be great experience, and familiarity with how the standards of review work could help you in an interview/make you feel more comfortable starting the job. But it's not going to be a significant or dramatic benefit for getting the job.

I think it'll help, especially if your appellate clinic does cert petitions/amicus briefs to SCOTUS.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:37 am

Leif Erikson wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:11 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:53 am

I'm in the top ten percent of my class, will doing an appellate clinic make me significantly more competitive or dramatically move the needle for COA clerkships?

Would be very helpful to know (1) what school (general range is fine), (2) what type of COA clerkships you'll be targeting, and (3) if you already have a district court clerkship.

Original Anon here. T14, non-senior judges in most of the circuits, and no district court clerkship at present.

Got it, thanks. I agree with Nixy that the clinic will not, in and of itself, have a huge impact. But having professors go to bat for you is a major benefit. If you already have professors you're close with and that will call or email judges to advocate for you, then I doubt doing an appellate clinic will make you significantly more competitive or dramatically move the needle. It sounds like you have a good shot at both a CoA anyway, so I think it comes down to preference; if you want to do the clinic, then great! You'll probably have a really neat experience and make meaningful connections. But if you're on the fence about doing the clinic, then I, personally, don't see what the benefit is.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:37 am

Leif Erikson wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:11 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:53 am

I'm in the top ten percent of my class, will doing an appellate clinic make me significantly more competitive or dramatically move the needle for COA clerkships?

Would be very helpful to know (1) what school (general range is fine), (2) what type of COA clerkships you'll be targeting, and (3) if you already have a district court clerkship.

Original Anon here. T14, non-senior judges in most of the circuits, and no district court clerkship at present.

Got it, thanks. I agree with Nixy that the clinic will not, in and of itself, have a huge impact. But having professors go to bat for you is a major benefit. If you already have professors you're close with and that will call or email judges to advocate for you, then I doubt doing an appellate clinic will make you significantly more competitive or dramatically move the needle. It sounds like you have a good shot at both a CoA anyway, so I think it comes down to preference; if you want to do the clinic, then great! You'll probably have a really neat experience and make meaningful connections. But if you're on the fence about doing the clinic, then I, personally, don't see what the benefit is.

accidental anon!

Yeah, I think it could help you feel more comfortable in an interview and have something to talk about in response to any "why a COA clerkship" question, but it doesn't do much in and of itself.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:37 am

Leif Erikson wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:11 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:53 am

I'm in the top ten percent of my class, will doing an appellate clinic make me significantly more competitive or dramatically move the needle for COA clerkships?

Would be very helpful to know (1) what school (general range is fine), (2) what type of COA clerkships you'll be targeting, and (3) if you already have a district court clerkship.

Original Anon here. T14, non-senior judges in most of the circuits, and no district court clerkship at present.

It's pretty irrational to not apply to senior judges, FYI. Many of them either keep full caseloads or sit by designation in other circuits. They also have more developed clerk networks by virtue of having been on the bench longer. Sure, maybe you don't want to work for someone who's on like a 1/4 case draw, but that's relatively few of them, at least IME.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:37 am

Leif Erikson wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:11 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:53 am

I'm in the top ten percent of my class, will doing an appellate clinic make me significantly more competitive or dramatically move the needle for COA clerkships?

Would be very helpful to know (1) what school (general range is fine), (2) what type of COA clerkships you'll be targeting, and (3) if you already have a district court clerkship.

Original Anon here. T14, non-senior judges in most of the circuits, and no district court clerkship at present.

It's pretty irrational to not apply to senior judges, FYI. Many of them either keep full caseloads or sit by designation in other circuits. They also have more developed clerk networks by virtue of having been on the bench longer. Sure, maybe you don't want to work for someone who's on like a 1/4 case draw, but that's relatively few of them, at least IME.

This, with the additional morbid caveat that working for a very old senior judge means you won't be getting one of the benefits of clerking--having someone who will be available as a mentor not just in the moment, but for many years going forward. But there are plenty of 65-70 year old senior judges who are carrying active caseloads and are likely to be available as a mentor for 15-20 years. You're only shortchanging yourself if you rule those people out.

For example, Judge Bumatay on the 9th is 42 years old, and is likely to still be judging when a 25-year-old clerkship applicant reaches retirement age. Judge Wallace, in the same courthouse, is 91 years old and still actively hiring and hearing cases. If you clerk for Wallace you are going to learn a ton from a brilliant guy who has been judging for 50 years...but you're not likely to have him in your corner for many more years to come. But on the flip side, Wallace is going to get a lot fewer applications, and you probably have a better chance of getting in the door.

A clinic can also help--I know one clerk who argued a clinic case while a law student, and was so good that one of the judges was caught on a hot mike between arguments marveling at how well she had argued. That recording made the rounds between chambers and ended up getting her hired.

I think it could help at least somewhat, especially if you get a chance to actually argue before a federal court of appeals or if you're working on Supreme Court cases, but I agree that it's probably not going to rescue an otherwise unremarkable application. One indirect benefit is that the instructors that run appellate clinics often have connections with federal judges and could turn into recommenders for you.